Westboro Baptist Church elohel

[Tristam Green]

Wait scholars actually do that?

Short answer? Yes. I've heard some of the debates, and they're really quite ridiculous. Especially considering that the only person who could potentially *know* what was intended in his (Tolkien's) writings is his own son, and even he has difficulty discerning it.

 

[Halifirien]

Yes, but there's also plenty of literary criticism that disregards the idea of an author being the final authority on what their work means -- pointing out things the author may not have been aware existed.

So if you can't get folks with access to contemporary authors to agree on interpretations, there's no way you'll ever get scholars to agree on every point of Christian mythology.

 

[Taurothar]

Moved thread to reality sinks in because I'd much rather keep any religious debates there and keep off topic more on the lighter side of discussion.

 

[Excalibur]

Yes, but there's also plenty of literary criticism that disregards the idea of an author being the final authority on what their work means -- pointing out things the author may not have been aware existed.

And all those literary critics are fuckin full of themselves. The author is the final authority on his own work. He knows what every little thing means, and it doesn't mean anything else other than that.
Now that's not to say that other people can't interpret it differently, or can't take things away from it that the author might not have intended for. People can think whatever the fuck they want about a book, but just because they think something doesn't make it true.

 

[Trippyhippy]

Moved thread to reality sinks in because I'd much rather keep any religious debates there and keep off topic more on the lighter side of discussion.

I always thought reality sinks in was for talking about aspects of our own life. I think this belongs in Off topic. Besides, a forum with "Reality" in the title is no place to discuss religion.

 

[Tymon]

Besides, a forum with "Reality" in the title is no place to discuss religion.

 

[Linhjah]

I always thought reality sinks in was for talking about aspects of our own life. I think this belongs in Off topic. Besides, a forum with "Reality" in the title is no place to discuss religion.

Religion plays a big part in many members' real lives; I understand it doesn't in yours and that you aren't alone in that. However, while you can deny that what people may believe in is real, you can't accurately say religion isn't real.

 

[Pompidou]

I don't think the author should be the final authority on what his work means. When you write a story there will always be messages to take from it. How characters react to situations and the consequences of their reactions can almost always be seen at a deeper level. Continuing with Tolkein, there are a lot of parallels in the Lord of the Rings to both world wars. Tolkein himself denied any relation to WWII, but he was a soldier in WWI, and WWI was arguably the more gruesome/demanding of the two world wars as far as the common infantryman was concerned - trench warfare sucked. He might not have been consciously applying his war experience to LotR, but the war shaped his psyche and I'm sure the book would've been different had he spent his life in luxury. This subconscious addition of symbolism and meaning is why I think scholars are justified in seeing deeper meaning in works where the author says there are none.

 

[Taurothar]

I always thought reality sinks in was for talking about aspects of our own life. I think this belongs in Off topic. Besides, a forum with "Reality" in the title is no place to discuss religion.

I prefer to have it be the center for any real life inspired discussion. Religion, however unrelated to your personal life, becomes a very personal topic to many. I think that any discussion of things like sexuality, politics, religion, or race should always be kept in reality sinks in because they are usually pointed debates with personal feelings and beliefs thrown in. I find that off topic is better suited for the random news and funny posts. The forum has gained some organizational help from the music and movies and video game sections that I think that it's a fair enough way to divvy up the threads. Again, I'm a democratic mod, so if the majority outcry says topics like this should be in off topic, I'll reconsider my sorting methods.

 

[Trippyhippy]

I prefer to have it be the center for any real life inspired discussion. Religion, however unrelated to your personal life, becomes a very personal topic to many. I think that any discussion of things like sexuality, politics, religion, or race should always be kept in reality sinks in because they are usually pointed debates with personal feelings and beliefs thrown in. I find that off topic is better suited for the random news and funny posts. The forum has gained some organizational help from the music and movies and video game sections that I think that it's a fair enough way to divvy up the threads. Again, I'm a democratic mod, so if the majority outcry says topics like this should be in off topic, I'll reconsider my sorting methods.

It's just the bit that says "This forums is for real life related posts. If you don't care about the real life of others, don't read it."

This is not about my life. I think this falls into the random news category. It doesn't really matter to me where it is though. OT and RSI are the only 2 forums i look at anymore, so as long as it's in either of those places, I'm fine.

I suppose it was more of an explanation as to why I put it where I did.

 

[Halifirien]

I rarely notice where the threads are, since all of my QCDN viewing comes through a desktop link to New Posts. I've never been clear on the difference between "Off-Topic" and "Reality Sinks In," since they seem like the same thing to me.

Just to dial it all back from the derails, Westboro had a fire over the weekend.

Fire reported at Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church

TOPEKA | The Topeka Fire Department is investigating a small fire outside of a church whose members protest at soldier’s funerals.

A fence and garage at Fred Phelps’ Westboro Baptist Church became engulfed in flames early Saturday, according to the Topeka Capitol-Journal Web site. The fire did not spread to the church building.

Topeka Fire Marshal Greg Bailey said the cause of the fire has not been determined. However, a spokeswoman for the church, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said she believes it was deliberately set.

Members of the church frequently picket military funerals, arguing that the deaths of U.S. troops overseas are part of God’s punishment for the nation’s tolerance of homosexuality.

Bailey said damage is estimated at $10,000.

I hope it wasn't arson. That's no way to deal with those delusional psychotics when mockery and name-calling are available.

 

[Linhjah]

I rarely notice where the threads are, since all of my QCDN viewing comes through a desktop link to New Posts. I've never been clear on the difference between "Off-Topic" and "Reality Sinks In," since they seem like the same thing to me.

Just to dial it all back from the derails, Westboro had a fire over the weekend.



I hope it wasn't arson. That's no way to deal with those delusional psychotics when mockery and name-calling are available.

If it was arson, I feel real sorry for who ever set it. They will get caught, and the Phelps' will prosecute and win. All that would accomplish is helping develop their martyr complex.

 

[bigbroon]

You can understand why they did it, I know the fury that bullshit fills me with. I wonder whether they actually believe what they preach? Anyway, it's not the way to go, setting fire to their "church", as you said, it's only going to help develop their "movement", but I do have a certain degree of sympathy with the arsonist, if that was indeed the cause of the fire...lol, like it was anything else.

 

[Trippyhippy]

If it was arson, I feel real sorry for who ever set it. They will get caught, and the Phelps' will prosecute and win. All that would accomplish is helping develop their martyr complex.

Will they get caught?

You know how many people have a motive? Everyone. Everyone in the entire country. Fuck them. If I saw someone do it with my own eyes, I'd never say a word. They deserve it.

 

[Linhjah]

Will they get caught?

You know how many people have a motive? Everyone. Everyone in the entire country. Fuck them. If I saw someone do it with my own eyes, I'd never say a word. They deserve it.

If there is one thing the Phelps are good at (aside from the hate mongering), its being persistent. They are also incredibly resourceful, actually. I can't say its definate that person would get caught, but if there is any scrap of evidence, that person is pretty well fucked. Its doubtful he'd have access to the same level of legal resources.

 

[Halifirien]

You know how many people have a motive? Everyone. Everyone in the entire country.

Not me. Part of me loves having those crazy nutjobs out there, because every time they open their mouths they create sympathy for gay people and make it just that much harder for the fence-sitters to come down on their side. I remember reading a right-winger's blog entry about Westboro a long time ago, convinced they were actually members of The Gay Agenda trying to make Christians look bad.

 

[bigbroon]

Not me. Part of me loves having those crazy nutjobs out there, because every time they open their mouths they create sympathy for gay people and make it just that much harder for the fence-sitters to come down on their side. I remember reading a right-winger's blog entry about Westboro a long time ago, convinced they were actually members of The Gay Agenda trying to make Christians look bad.

I guess that's just cynicism at it's best, isn't it lol. A group so extreme in their beliefs against a certain group or ethnic minority, people may actually start to believe they are some kind of ploy to make people hate their enemy, thus joining the "side" of said minority.

I do agree with what you said though. Although many of their preachings are disgusting at best, they're doing quite a lot of good in terms of people who may before have sat on the fence and not committed an opinion, and will now go all out and stop at pretty much nothing to show their support for the gay community and their total dismay and disgust for these deluded morons.