Westboro Baptist Church to get day in court

Tristam Green said:
What laws that can be stretched like taffy?
Click to expand...
Free speech comes to mind. For laws to be fully effective they need limits. Anyone can hide under the blanket of free speech and pull shit like this. The idea that we should protect free speech comes from the desire to be the better citizen/person. I'd consider the Supreme Court better people if they can help find a way to shut this rabble down.
 
Zaltana said:
For laws to be fully effective they need limits.
Click to expand...

Don't tell the NRA that. They fight tooth-and-nail against every limit on Second Amendment rights that come up, even stuff I would think of as basic common sense limits.

Nobody needs to protect popular speech. It's the unpopular stuff that has to be protected. If you shut down Westboro because you don't like their brand of Christianity -- which to my atheist mind is no more or less correct than "mainstream" Christianity, Scientology, Islam, Judaism, etc. -- or how they express it, then you can start putting limits on other speech you don't like. The current freakout over atheist groups putting innocuous ads on buses comes to mind. There are plenty of Christians out there going into vapor lock and complaining they're being persecuted and suffering emotional distress just because someone has the gall to say "It's okay if you don't believe in God."
 
Their right to freedom of speech is just as important as my right to feel safe. Rights are all fine and good until they infirnge on any other right. Some religions allow for the killing of non-believers and the like, and in theory if you take freedom of religion to the extreme, they should be allowed to do that. But it infringes on the rights of safety of everyone else, so you can't. I have the right to free speech, but I can't use it to go around telling everyone how I plan to blow up the plane i'm about to get on. Its against the law.

You have the right to bare arms in the US, but I think if you were to walk around downtown with a rifle you might get in some trouble for it.

I'm all for restricting or limiting rights when they infringe on the rights of others.
 
Marajade said:
Their right to freedom of speech is just as important as my right to feel safe. Rights are all fine and good until they infirnge on any other right. Some religions allow for the killing of non-believers and the like, and in theory if you take freedom of religion to the extreme, they should be allowed to do that. But it infringes on the rights of safety of everyone else, so you can't. I have the right to free speech, but I can't use it to go around telling everyone how I plan to blow up the plane i'm about to get on. Its against the law.

You have the right to bare arms in the US, but I think if you were to walk around downtown with a rifle you might get in some trouble for it.

I'm all for restricting or limiting rights when they infringe on the rights of others.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I said earlier. Very well put, Mara.
 
Zaltana said:
Free speech comes to mind. For laws to be fully effective they need limits. Anyone can hide under the blanket of free speech and pull shit like this. The idea that we should protect free speech comes from the desire to be the better citizen/person. I'd consider the Supreme Court better people if they can help find a way to shut this rabble down.
Click to expand...

I see, and you're right.

Marajade said:
Their right to freedom of speech is just as important as my right to feel safe. Rights are all fine and good until they infirnge on any other right. Some religions allow for the killing of non-believers and the like, and in theory if you take freedom of religion to the extreme, they should be allowed to do that. But it infringes on the rights of safety of everyone else, so you can't. I have the right to free speech, but I can't use it to go around telling everyone how I plan to blow up the plane i'm about to get on. Its against the law.

You have the right to bare arms in the US, but I think if you were to walk around downtown with a rifle you might get in some trouble for it.

I'm all for restricting or limiting rights when they infringe on the rights of others.
Click to expand...

You would, but only if you 1) were in an area that expressly forbade it (i.e. a courthouse, or a similar government building), or 2) you didn't have the required permit for open carry.



Marajade brings up a great point about limiting rights when said rights infringe upon the rights of others (wow that's redundancy bureaucracy in action for you there).

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Click to expand...
What happens when the free exercise of speech (Westboro) impedes the right of the people to peaceably assemble (funeral processions)?

We *all* make concessions daily on our own rights. If you don't think you do, you're kidding yourself. It's called "better judgment" - it goes back to the "fire in a crowded theater" example. What the members of the Westboro Baptist Church lack is better judgment.
 
Tristam Green said:
I explained Westboro to someone like this recently:

"Yes, they exist. Much to the detriment of the 1.9999999 billion other Christians on the planet."

While I think that *by law* their ability to do these repulsive protests should remain protected speech, I believe there ought to be ordinances that dictate that anyone intending on having a protest at a funeral must have express written permission of the surviving kin of the deceased.
Click to expand...
An example:

A black person dies, and at his funeral some racists come with signs and say "God killed this ++++++ God bless America", I'm sure as hell police would come and escort them away and that they'd get sued. Why wouldn't the same apply to Westboro Baptist Church?

Freedom of speach exists, yes, but there's still rules and regulations where you can't go up to someone and insult them. If Freedom of Speech always applied, you'd be open to offend people as you please, which you can't.

Its no secret that I don't support the war, but that doesn't change the fact that the family and friends of the dead soldiers still deserve some respect at the funeral, like every other person. I don't see Westboro come to every funeral to protest that said person died because homosexuals exist in America, they specifically choose soldiers. They can say all they want they do it to protest against homosexuality, but that's not the case. They abuse free speech to insult and sell bad propaganda. They do it to get famous, no other reason. What they're doing is unacceptable, free speech or not.

I'm actually surprised someone hasn't gone up and thrown a bomb or shot these people yet. Then we could go to their funeral and protest, stating that God did it.

And wow, its gonna be a field trip when the pastor dies, whatever the reason.
 
Last edited:
A black person dies, and at his funeral some racists come with signs and say "God killed this ++++++ God bless America", I'm sure as hell police would come and escort them away and that they'd get sued. Why wouldn't the same apply to Westboro Baptist Church?
Click to expand...

Bingo, and the perfect point.

And ++ to your second point as well. This is why libel and slander laws exist.
 
Here's the deal:

Freedom of speech is protected by the Constitution, but that doesn't mean it's without limits. For example, it's illegal to say things that might incite a crowd to panic or violence, such as shouting "FIRE!" in a movie theater. In my mind, demonstrating and, indeed, celebrating someone's demise at their funeral is inciting others to violence, pure and simple. If the Supreme Court can't connect those dots, they're only supremely stupid in my book.

As crazy as this may sound, anyone who thinks they might be on the receiving end of a visit from these shitheads should have a ready stock of rotten vegetables, rotten eggs, and really, really hot pepper blended up in some gallon jugs. Before the funeral begins, stand right in the midst of these assholes, uncap this vile concoction and start spinning like a dervish, all the while praying loudly to the deity of your choice.

Invite your friends to participate in your Divinely-inspired mourning ritual. After all, it's your God-given right to mourn in a fashion of which your deity would approve.
 
Found out on the radio this morning that these people are going to be coming to Charleston, SC for three days near the end of the month. Five of the places that they plan to protest are high schools during hours when the students are either arriving or leaving school. Other places include the Air Force base, harbor, a Jewish community center, and College of Charleston. Local newspaper has an article about it. http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/mar/11/protesters-coming-here/ I definitely don't care for them but they do have the freedom to protest. Violence against them would do no good. The only thing I could see them getting sued for would be slander or blocking a roadway although I don't know if they are careful enough to not do that. It really angers me that they don't have enough respect for grieving families to leave the funerals alone and that they hope to sway high school students to their cause. Some of the counter protest activities in the past have made me laugh. It would be really great if everyone at the places that they protest just ignored them completely. I think that would get at them more than giving them attention.
 
Stine said:
Found out on the radio this morning that these people are going to be coming to Charleston, SC for three days near the end of the month. Five of the places that they plan to protest are high schools during hours when the students are either arriving or leaving school. Other places include the Air Force base, harbor, a Jewish community center, and College of Charleston. Local newspaper has an article about it. http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2010/mar/11/protesters-coming-here/ I definitely don't care for them but they do have the freedom to protest. Violence against them would do no good. The only thing I could see them getting sued for would be slander or blocking a roadway although I don't know if they are careful enough to not do that. It really angers me that they don't have enough respect for grieving families to leave the funerals alone and that they hope to sway high school students to their cause. Some of the counter protest activities in the past have made me laugh. It would be really great if everyone at the places that they protest just ignored them completely. I think that would get at them more than giving them attention.
Click to expand...

Mr_Burns.png


Let them come.
 
If I remembered how to r8 up posts, I would Tristam.

Excellent...
 
I miss the r8 ups.

On topic: As it was said before, the worst thing you can do to something like this is ignore it (worst for them, best for us). Without attention they SHOULD realize the futility of protesting and rallying and whatnot. At least, that's what I think.
 
Tristam Green said:
Mr_Burns.png


Let them come.
Click to expand...
Should I be scared? I know that you wouldn't do anything stupid to go to jail but I could see you doing something like this: http://laughingsquid.com/san-franciscos-answer-to-westboro-baptist-church/

Miruyasha said:
I miss the r8 ups.

On topic: As it was said before, the worst thing you can do to something like this is ignore it (worst for them, best for us). Without attention they SHOULD realize the futility of protesting and rallying and whatnot. At least, that's what I think.
Click to expand...

They should but they also should realize the need to respect others but they don't. It's a bad situation where if you provoke them they'll probably do it more but if you ignore them they might go away but even then you don't know when that would happen.
 
These people seem like zealots, taking their faith to such an extreme that they'd feign to dishonor the dead. What's worse is they feel their justified in doing so by parading under the flag of religion.
 
Tristam Green said:
I will buy many cartons of eggs. I will sell said eggs for $2 a piece, and 3 for $5, with a sign reading "Eggs for sale. Do with what you will." I will donate all the proceeds to a charity, and will donate all unsold eggs to a homeless shelter.
Click to expand...

How noble and hilarious of you.
 
lol, either that or I'll make a big protest sign like theirs that reads "Welcome to Charleston; Good Luck with the Buttsex"
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top