What do people WANT from me!!!

No...You're saying you shouldn't tank just INCASE you get hit without shadows up....I'm saying by your logic I shouldn't main heal just INCASE I grab hate from the tank with some high level cures or something (which happens a lot...) and die in like 2 hits. Seems kind of silly doesn't it? NINs are great tanks...I don't know why you don't want to be a Great tank instead of a mediocre damage dealer? When NINs do their job properly they don't get hit at all, even with the light gear that they were it never really becomes an issue.
 
Sab, those two statements don't line up. Her arguement is against Ninja/Black Mage being a desirable tanking combo. You can't apply that to Summoner, because you are never expected to tank as a Summoner/White Mage. Her arguement revolves around the expectation that comes with the combo, and why she thinks it is not a good idea.

If she gets hit with her gear, which is put towards maximizing the DoT potential of Ninjutsu spamming, she will take harsh damage. More then a NIN/WAR, because of a few reasons...

A) WAR sub offers more VIT, and Defender...These are pretty big factors, and with BLM gone, they are as well.
B) Her gear as a NIN/WAR is totally different. It's suited for blink tanking, and if I recall...Marael plays a style that also compensates for the times she will get hit(Since it's inevitable), so her gear would make it so she DOESN'T die in 2-3 hits with shadows down. As a NIN/BLM, her gear wouldn't resemble such. Once again, hits are going to be a lot more unwelcomed.

She isn't saying, "I shouldn't tank in case I get hit with my shadows down." She's saying, "I shouldn't tank because I'm not meant to take hits with this combo, period." So unless you gear SMN/WHM to take a beating in a tanking situation, and you are TRYING to pull hate, then that arguement is null.

Remember, main healing CAN result in tanking. But when you say tanking in the sense that you did...Your intent IS to have the mob focus on you. Not the same thing.
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Cythe - Rank 10
Hume Male
73 Paladin
 
I'm making a statement to the fact that Ni and Ichi work reguardless of your gear. You don't get hit if you have shadows up. She comes back saying "If I get Hit..." and I'm saying if you keep your shadows up you don't. All NIN have useless defense....the whole party/hate dynamic usually goes out the window once the NIN gets hit w/o a shadow up and I usually get hit because I'm tossing out a divine seal + Cure III....does this mean I shouldn't main heal? That's my point. Just because your job/gear wasn't initially ment to do it's job doesn't mean it can't. My gear is all based towards a summoner, I have very few peices that are geared towards being a WHM....you don't hear me complaining.

My point is if she does her job well she can A) Hold hate w/o a voke and do massive damage like she's seems to want to and B) use Ni and Ichi to make up for her non-tank gear....

If you have your shadows up you don't get hit reguardless of what your wearing...every party has a good backup voke or two in there anyway...
 
Just to clarify, nin/blm subs blm not for the int boost (which is almost same for any full sub) but instead for the +magic attack bonus which affect nin spells. Like Marael mentioned, at lvl 60 he gets lvl 2 magic attack+ from his blm sub.
 
Whoops, didn't see the second page. My previous post was in response to this comment:
Sansoke said:
She is using blm to give her a int boost which affect her Ninja spells.
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I just got my NIN to 34 and my problem was I decked out my NIN as NIN/WAR for tanking and NIN/RNG for damage. Got all the right equipment for both styles of NIN. Then I would get invited to a party and my search comment clearly stated that I could do both setups.

Anyways I would show up to party and it would have a PLD or what not even after I asked "Will I be tanking today?" I still had some good parties (one AMAZING party, 2 NIN's, 2 RNG's, WHM and WAR/MNK, yes please) but it just pisses me off people think NIN/WARs is the only good setup and why can't people READ THE FREAKING SEARCH COMMENT.
 
If someone wants to join a party of mine with an unusual sub (note: not gimp sub, like WAR/WHM), first I ask them why they use that job/sub combo (and more importantly, if they've used it before). If the idea is a good one, then I let them in the party so I can see how it works. If their excuse is lame (for example, a SMN/BLM says "I don't wanna be main healer" when I ask why he subs BLM), or if it's obvious they don't know what they're talking about, then I say no.

I'm willing to invite people with an unusual job/sub combo, but only if it's apparent that they know what they're doing. If they have no clue, or use a different sub to avoid doing something that their job should be (my SMN/BLM example above), then they don't get a party.
 
Sabia said:
I'm making a statement to the fact that Ni and Ichi work reguardless of your gear. You don't get hit if you have shadows up. She comes back saying "If I get Hit..." and I'm saying if you keep your shadows up you don't. quote]

you're not listening to me. for shadows to STAY up you need EVA and I wear none in order to maximize DMG which is what a DD should do MAXIMIZE DAMAGE. all shadows will go down in a matter of seconds and i will have half a minute where I am being pounded on before I can recast. The result of which is the WHM spamming cures to keep me alive and therefore grabbing himself hate. The WHM will go down then I will go down then the rest of the PT will go down very quickly after that. its not that Utsusemi doesn't work with INT and matk boosting equipment it's that it doesn't last long enough to make much of a difference.

watch ANY nin tank with good blink tanking gear and you will see that they dodge like half, if not more, of the attacks that are thrown at them. that makes it so that it is possible to overlap shadows and so, you rarely get hit, BUT without my +50 eva i dodge NOTHING and so I get pounded a lot harder a lot faster than any other ninja with my 212 def rather than my 404 (food equipment and defender) on NIN/WAR. I take double the damage which is something that the PT cannot afford.

Think of utsusemi on a NIN/BLM as blink and stoneskin on a WHM (yes I HAVE played WHM to mid-high lvl I KNOW the job reasonably well)because it will take about the same amount of hits, enough for the tank to pull hate back, just enough to save my life if I get hate. Utsusemi will take a maximum of 7 hits leaving me with 30-45 secs before I can cast again. it is not a tanking tool in the hands of a NIN/BLM just as blink and stoneskin are not a tanking tool in teh hands of a WHM. You would not expect a WHM to tank just cause they can spam cures to keep hate and have blink and stoneskin to absorb damage.

I HAVE tried to tank with NIN/BLM you forget or did not care to read that part. it DOES NOT work. I repeat, IT DOES NOT WORK. i speak from EXPERIENCE, IT DOES NOT WORK. EXPERIENCE. DOES NOT WORK. EXPERIENCE. DOES NOT WORK. EXPERIENCE. DOES NOT WORK. those are the key words to the sentence that you skipped over before. I'm not trying to be an ass I'm only trying to point out that I have done this and it does not work. NIN/BLM is pure DD with a means to protect themselves for only 4-5 seconds should they steal hate from the tank.
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I have always and always will use evasion + food and gear. Even with haste sometimes shadows will run out, so so much easier if you're dodging even a third of them. The most difficult part is transfering over from Ni to Ichi, becausae it doesn't cast over. I try to cancel but sometimes in the quarter of a second leeway I give myself, the monster throws a hit it on me. At that point, all the def gear and food isn't gonna save my ass. I have to actually evade a hit to get my friggin shadows back up.
 
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