what's better for drk sub

styrkar

styrkar

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Hey i was just wondering what do you guys think is a better sub for drk? I appreciate all of your output. Thanks
 
WAR - better DoT , double attack , zerk , voke , defender
THF - good Weaponskill damage + hate management at 60+ , sneak attack , trick attack , steal


so pick which one you prefer thf is very nice 65/66+ for sata cross reaper and sata spinning slash
 
well i'm a lvl 30 drk and i want to do damage
 
stick with WAR sub would be what I would think is logical. At 60+ go with THF sub prolly. I've seen a DRK/THF out damage a DRK/WAR atleast on the WS... never kept with the DoT numbers.
 
Elemmire said:
stick with WAR sub would be what I would think is logical. At 60+ go with THF sub prolly. I've seen a DRK/THF out damage a DRK/WAR atleast on the WS... never kept with the DoT numbers.
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go with what Elem said, I'm DRK69(almost 70 ><) and use DRK/WAR until the 60's... for survival purposes of course not just dmg...you think I'm jokin prolly...well hear me out

Ok DRK/WAR just lv's dings 60 right? after a couple of fights your scythe caps and you get Guillotine W00000000000000000000000T right?

for your death ya sure w00t away but, i will warn you now...post 60 Guillotine w/o SATA and plus ur hate from Souleater and from Last Resort or maybe spare vokes to take hate back from the mages and your current DoT keep in mind a mob isnt going to like you hitting it for a good 800ish dmg on a Guillotine, and mind you ... DRK's have low defense, so keep in mind post 60 for a DRK/THF for overall best dmg/survivability

if you want most dmg...go for DRK/SAM or DRK/WAR at almost any lv really, DRK/WAR is nice for Berserk and the STR+

DRK/SAM is also nice for the STR+ and the Third Eye and most importantly Meditate... Guillotine with 100% TP hit 2 more times Meditate another 100% TP and unload another Guillotine doing about 1500ish dmg in that little time, you're thinking WHOA I Wanna do THAT! But keep in mind the hate system, it's hard for a tank to keep hate when the DD does another 1500 dmg y'know? I've used alot of sub's on DRK but please w/e u do DO NOT USE /BLM ty and good luck^^
 
Having SATA is very useful for a DRK post 60. I can unload a SATA Soul Eater'd Cross Reaper onto the tank for 1000+ dmg without having to worry about my life bar dropping 1/3 from the attack and then getting attacked on top of that. It's nice having SATA to help shed or redistribute the large amount of damage that you can generate as a well-equipped DRK.
 
awesome ront hnx for the advice. So basically if i want damage go with /war?
 
styrkar said:
awesome ront hnx for the advice. So basically if i want damage go with /war?
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until 60 ya, I'd most definately say /war because Vorpal Scythe isnt that strong anyways, so may as well make up for your weak WS with some strong hits...as I said Good Luck with DRK it's incredibly fun >:D

Just keep at DRK tho, don't give up in the mid lv's plz plz plz plz plz don't >< it's hard to get pt's yes...DRK's don't really stand out among other DD's till post 60, for Guillotine...but then at 66 with Great Sword lv'd you get Spinning Slash and omg DRK's stand out alot with amazing DD ability's like that, just keep at it and make sure to keep Great Sword and Scythe capped as you're lv'n much much fun on DRK >:D
 
My opinions...

1-10: You're probably soloing, so go ahead and sub WHM for some curing and such. Don't get used to it, though, as you'll want to change it when you party.

10-20: MNK is probably best here, for Boost. WAR and THF are also decent, if you don't want to bother leveling MNK.
20-30: I've heard DRG sub can work here, as Jump gives you a free attack, and with a high delay weapon like a scythe or greatsword, free attacks are good. MNK is still good here, and you can still go with WAR or THF.

30-50: WAR gets Berserk, giving you higher DoT for 3 minutes every 5 minutes. THF gets Sneak Attack, giving you a guaranteed crit hit every minute. I'd say that it's a judgment call - either one works.
50-60: WAR gets Double Attack, and THF can't give anything better right now. Go with WAR.

60-65: THF gets SATA, but that doesn't increase damage any more than SA. You can do Guillotine + SATA on to the tank, but it's tricky to set up and only the first hit is critical.

65: SATA+Cross Reaper now. Still only the first hit that's a crit, but it's 1/2 hits instead of 1/4 that are boosted, so you get more bang for your buck. You can also drop the hate onto the tank. WAR sub still works, though.

66-75: At 66 you can do SATA+Spinning Slash. This is good for a few things. First, it can be used to close Light. Also, I've heard that Spinning Slash is a rather inaccurate WS, so in order for it to hit normally, you need to use a lot of +Accuracy gear. With SA, you can guarantee that it hits, and use a macro to swap gear to +STR and +INT gear to power the hit and not worry about it missing (Spinning Slash has an INT modifier - higher INT means higher damage). Also, Spinning Slash is a single-hit WS, so the entire thing is boosted with SA, instead of just part of it.
 
It's already been said, but hey.. we love repetition right!? :lol:

Pretty much 1-59 (60 if you really want..) sub War, works great, it's fantastic, yadda yadda. Beserk, Double Attack, and at 50 I think you get defender, around that time you will most likely have a thf in your party, and defender is great for using with that first voke and initial bit of tanking you'll be doing. Just think.. before that you may be initially tanking and really getting stomped on, now you can have a bit more defense to take those hits. Just don't forget to cancell defender as soon as your tank gets SaTa'd onto.

Warrior sub is fantastic pure damage and double attack is so very nice for tp gaining, granted you wont notice much if you equiptment sucks... but that's a different topic.

Thf sub, is primarily used from 60-75 because you get the ability to trick attack then (at 60), and SaTa'ing with Guillotine is good for placing hate/and or ending skillchains.

Beyond that I wouldnt know personally, since im only lvl 61. Though I can't really imagine it being much different, same thing different weapon skills, better gear.
 
Sethala said:
My opinions...

1-10: You're probably soloing, so go ahead and sub WHM for some curing and such. Don't get used to it, though, as you'll want to change it when you party.

10-20: MNK is probably best here, for Boost. WAR and THF are also decent, if you don't want to bother leveling MNK.
20-30: I've heard DRG sub can work here, as Jump gives you a free attack, and with a high delay weapon like a scythe or greatsword, free attacks are good. MNK is still good here, and you can still go with WAR or THF.

30-50: WAR gets Berserk, giving you higher DoT for 3 minutes every 5 minutes. THF gets Sneak Attack, giving you a guaranteed crit hit every minute. I'd say that it's a judgment call - either one works.
50-60: WAR gets Double Attack, and THF can't give anything better right now. Go with WAR.

60-65: THF gets SATA, but that doesn't increase damage any more than SA. You can do Guillotine + SATA on to the tank, but it's tricky to set up and only the first hit is critical.

65: SATA+Cross Reaper now. Still only the first hit that's a crit, but it's 1/2 hits instead of 1/4 that are boosted, so you get more bang for your buck. You can also drop the hate onto the tank. WAR sub still works, though.

66-75: At 66 you can do SATA+Spinning Slash. This is good for a few things. First, it can be used to close Light. Also, I've heard that Spinning Slash is a rather inaccurate WS, so in order for it to hit normally, you need to use a lot of +Accuracy gear. With SA, you can guarantee that it hits, and use a macro to swap gear to +STR and +INT gear to power the hit and not worry about it missing (Spinning Slash has an INT modifier - higher INT means higher damage). Also, Spinning Slash is a single-hit WS, so the entire thing is boosted with SA, instead of just part of it.
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:shock: /clap well said
 
I would hold off using anything but warrior until 66 unless you were specifically asked to use thief or something else. From 60-66 it appears that /thf is a false sense of security. That is, by subbing thief you have so nerfed yourself that you're no longer in danger of gaining too much hate. While subbed warrior, you wish you had thief. While subbed thief, you wish you had warrior. I think the best option is to go warrior and know when to hold back.

But once you critical a spinning slash, there's little anyone can do. A drk/thf may be slow as molasses, but they honestly do make good use of the trick attack ability after L65.
 
I cant imagine any Dark wanting to use /thf to be honest. Yes you have a higher survival rate, but if the mob is alive long enough to really kill you after the big SC, then something is wrong anyways. People say that Rangers do the same thing by subbing Ninja, but there is a massive difference. That is done to improve accuracy by dual wielding, and because Rangers take hate a lot, not to mention getting hit on pulls (which should be rare Ill admit). There are points when I could have subbed War, but I never knew they were coming so I didnt take advantage. I have seen the Tp gain of a Drk/War compared to a Drk/Thf, and its ridiculous. I have seen a Drk/War nearly keep up with me in TP gain, and I have yet to see a Drk/Thf get 100 before I had 150, or 200 in most cases. Again, I havent played Drk so I wont get to vehement about it, just what I have seen. You are sacrificing a shit load of stuff for SA which doesnt boost that much. I have seen Drk/Wars bust off 1200+ guillotines consistently with Berserk and all that good stuff, but have yet to see a Drk/Thf hit that high. Just my opinion on the matter...but trust the Drks I would say.

Fae
 
I would level WAR, THF, and SAM to LV37. It all depends on the setup of the party, so having mutliple SJ's to pick from is nice.
 
Sam sub meh.. I dunno about it. I wanted to level it for a sub. But even then I never wanted to use it in an exp party. In my opinion sam sub is basically for show.. perhaps for farming, but really the only thing you get out of it is a bit faster TP gain. Which you might be wondering, what could possibly be wrong with that..

Well, doing multiple heavy damaging weapon skills is going to make it incredibly hard for your tank to do his job. You're going to get aggro.. and perhaps even die. As far as I see it sam sub is just for show. That's all ive got to say about that.

As for why a drk would want to sub thf at all, that's simple. Granted, in my opinion subbing thf before you get Trick Attack is pointless, and if you arent aware, that is any level before 60. Up untill this point /war is the far better sub to use. However, at 60 Drks get two new WS's to play with: Guillotine and Sickle Moon. Guillotine is a godsend compared to every scythe WS up to that point. Dealing easily anywhere from 200-900 damage without using Souleater + Last resort. With Souleater + Last Resort it can and generally does do 900-1000+. So far I believe my highest hit has been 1500something. Honestly though I do not believe Guillotine even combined with last resort and soul eater can do that high of a damaging hit without the help of sneak attack.

Why then you ask we use trick attack? Simple really, after doing such a hard hit with SaTa + Soul Eater + Last Resort +Guillotine, I even as an Elvaan am left in a severly weakened state with roughly half my HP (or more) gone. If that WS wasn't used as a killing blow.. which it generally isnt because you want it MB'd off of, without Trick attacking onto someone your risking immenant death. Half HP and a mob that wants to kill you is what you get after that, it's not exactly ideal or healthy for that matter.
Trick Attacking onto a tank (or a wandering whm :P ) garentee's we're safe, and even though we just took a huge HP loss, the healer will be able to heal us easy enough while the tank goes about his/her buisness as usual.

The thing about guillotine is without Sneak Attack it's damage output is very sperratic. It may do 936 dmg one time and it might just do 283 dmg the next time, and then do 628 dmg the next.. it's not a hugely reliable WS without some kind of modifier and in this case Sneak Attack pretty much garentee's it's going to hit for at very least 600-1000, the higher end of the spectrum.

As far as Sickle Moon goes, it's no Guillotine, but for GS it easily the most damaging weapon skill up to that point, while generally it tends to dish out 200-600 damage on normal Sneak Attack hits, but (for me) It can do up to 700-1000 damage after a Last resort + souleater + SaTa hit. Without the use of Sneak Attack it too has a slightly sperratic damage output and only tends to do 200-500 dmg, and rarely sometimes doing something over that amount.

I love subbing War, lets me just go all out. TP gains are much faster, but its highly risky and when you go all out.. you're pretty much signing a death warrant. Where as subbing Thf lets you go all out with safety.. not to mention you can take over Thf spots in Nin or Pld parties (though really.. by 60 Pld's shouldnt be having trouble holding hate unless theres a really gung-ho Rng in the party.

Oh.. and that's another thing.. I <3 rangers now.. instead of loathing the fact that can do dish out the uber damage so much faster and earlier than us.. >.> (*breath*) With a ranger in the party we're bound to produce some kick ass xp per hour paired together. Slug Shot/Side Winder >> Guillotine 4tw. ^^
 
war to 60. There is simply no logical reason to sub anything but war to 60. (I would suggest keeping it till 66).

Sam seems like a total waste of sub at any level, useless until 60 for meditate, and at that point more tp isnt what drk needs... Damage control is. After you get souleater (which you did) you will start to notice how squishy you are, and how fast your hp can plummet to nothing if you aren't careful.

sa-guillotine is strong but since the sa only modifiers the first hit, its not really that effective. I suppose sata-guiollotine allows use of souleater during it but even so, shouldn't only the first hit's damage be dropped onto the tank? As in, you just gave the tank 1 and yourself 3 hits worth of aggro? Sata cross reaper is less effective than sata spinning slash because cross reaper is a 2hitter and only gets the sa bonus on hit 1. In my experience without that modifier, cr does more base dmg than ss.

O... A bit off topic but... If your healer is really low on mana Dont Use Souleater if the mob is at > 1/2 life. I see this way too much and it makes me want to strangle people. Poor whm is struggling to keep the freaking pally alive and bam suddenly the squishy drk is in the red because hes an idiot. grrrrrrr....
 
Mistaya said:
war to 60. There is simply no logical reason to sub anything but war to 60. (I would suggest keeping it till 66).

Sam seems like a total waste of sub at any level, useless until 60 for meditate, and at that point more tp isnt what drk needs... Damage control is. After you get souleater (which you did) you will start to notice how squishy you are, and how fast your hp can plummet to nothing if you aren't careful.

sa-guillotine is strong but since the sa only modifiers the first hit, its not really that effective. I suppose sata-guiollotine allows use of souleater during it but even so, shouldn't only the first hit's damage be dropped onto the tank? As in, you just gave the tank 1 and yourself 3 hits worth of aggro? Sata cross reaper is less effective than sata spinning slash because cross reaper is a 2hitter and only gets the sa bonus on hit 1. In my experience without that modifier, cr does more base dmg than ss.

O... A bit off topic but... If your healer is really low on mana Dont Use Souleater if the mob is at > 1/2 life. I see this way too much and it makes me want to strangle people. Poor whm is struggling to keep the freaking pally alive and bam suddenly the squishy drk is in the red because hes an idiot. grrrrrrr....
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I don't know how u got that idea...the 1 hit of hate on the tank and 3 on you? lol I hope you were joking because the whole thing is planted on the tank not the rest of the dmg, when you do TA especially with THF it transfers hate (OMG I'm sure you knew that) :P that counts for all dmg not just the initial Hit SA works like that not TA
 
Aww, c'mon Styr. how many times do you have to ask the same question? We tell you three or four times in the LS, backing it up with the same facts you're getting here (good advice from where I'm standing btw). Now sh*t or get off the pot. The fact is, you'll likely need both subs to play DRK effectively, so level BOTH!
 
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