Whitemage's: Please read.

[Xerius]

whatttttt

cmon...

300k isn't that hard to get at all...

if people would just STOP EXPING for a few days they could 300k.

 

[xKronox]

You guys complain 300k is alot on a spell.

What about ninja? Utesesmi USED TO BE 300k+, thank god its only like 230k plus. Not to mention the pain in the ass to get the first utsesmsi.

So since utesmemi @ level 37 costs this much, my point is this.
What if i ninja had your thinking? "Omg 300k is way too much" And didnt have this spell?

Yeah.... Get back to me on that one.

 

[DodgeRoadRage]

You guys complain 300k is alot on a spell.

What about ninja? Utesesmi USED TO BE 300k+, thank god its only like 230k plus. Not to mention the pain in the ass to get the first utsesmsi.

So since utesmemi @ level 37 costs this much, my point is this.
What if i ninja had your thinking? "Omg 300k is way too much" And didnt have this spell?

Yeah.... Get back to me on that one.

Most people that play ninja already have a job leveled up pretty high. Also most people do the quest for the scroll with help. Erase can not be done this way unless you are in a static party that wants too help you get it. I have helped a thf friend get this scroll so he could go back and lvl ninja.

WHM on the other hand can not farm as good as melee. Anyone that has whm as their only high job knows this. So in the 30's too 40's range, I say again do not expect WHM too have this just yet.

Krono, I have pointed out the problems but you can not understand them because you are not a white mage.

 

[Zanaga]

What about ninja? Utesesmi USED TO BE 300k+, thank god its only like 230k plus. Not to mention the pain in the ass to get the first utsesmsi.

So since utesmemi @ level 37 costs this much, my point is this.
What if i ninja had your thinking? "Omg 300k is way too much" And didnt have this spell?

are you just talking to see yourself talk? seriously now... Utetsumesi:Ni is 150k, cheap, very cheap, and for what it does, its' worth every cent of that gil, if your gonna witch and moan and cry and complain like this cause some WHM you partied with was crappy, i'm sorry, but that's just stupid, do you realize how hard it is for any mage in that game to farm? we are totally screwed as far as raising gil goes. YOU want erase? then YOU go do BCNM 40, a couple times, and YOU drop the price of erase, set it so 100k, seems fair enough, then YOU still get that gil got doing the BCNM and the spell is now more redily accessable to low lvl WHM. if you don't like that idea, then stop complaining!
you keep posting about STR down being so painful... oh dead GOD! it's slowly wearing off becomming weaker and weaker giving me back STR slowly till it wears away! DEAR GOD! it's gonna kill me! :roll: sounds pretty stupid no?
melee have readily accessable ways to farm high lvl mobs for drops that sell quite well, they have very little room to complain about a mage who struggles to farm lower lvl mobs for crap that sells at 10k a stack... I've made it to lvl 62 whm without using erase once, never used it, never had it, only once needed it. I bought it recently, the most disappointing thing i've done in game, it's slow as hell to cast, and Rones is right, it doesnt' work on any of the debuffs that the ensauna spells cover, so i bought this 300k spells, that works only on spider slow, stat down, dia, bio, rasp, choke, drown, shock... hmmmm sounds like a GREAT investment to me? what do you think? the most UNCOMMON debuffs used, i got a spell to get rid of them, granted stat debuffs are a little more frequent, i'll give you those, it'd be nice to counter those, BUT you guys complain like it's the end of the world cause you got hit with STR down... IT DEPLETES SLOWLY!!!! i can't stress that enough, you don't seem to even notice, understand, or care to notice or understand. lets say STR down starts at -10, then we give it a few seconds, check it again, MY GOD! it's -5 NOW! HOLY HELL! HOW DID THAT HAPPEN! :roll:
so please, keep defending the point that you think all whm should get erase at 32, please, you keep running the same argument, if you wanna avoid what i'm saying, and try the same argument again, that's fine by me.

 

[Marajade]

I don think WHM NEEDS erase untill 70+, when we start doing the huge HNMs. In those battles, STR down and EVA down really do make a diffrence, because everyone needs to be operateing at 110% to come close to winning.

If you have a whm who has it Pre-70, dance in the streets. otherwise, suck it up. a WHM with erase at 32 is like a mele haveing a Peacock charm at 33. its the epitomy of uberness, but never happens.

 

[Shia]

Few things. Whm who has erase around the level they can use is rare. Face it, those whm who has erase around level 30~40s are usually the sub of the main job or possibly their second job they are leveling. I had erase at level 36 since I needed the spell for my rdm subbing whm.

Farming 300k for a level 30 whm and who has just began and their whm is the highest job its a huge investment. Whm themselves aren't good at soloing even they have the best cures. Of course this doesn't mean they cannot do it. BCNM runs they say it easily but if its not amoung the people they know who won't screw you up there is no chance making that kind of money. My whm friend didn't get erase till 63. Frankly, he didn't really needed to say the truth. The real pain for him was when blm was casting erase to the party. So he stopped leveling and went farming. Things was not easy for him so I helped him out. After 3 weeks of extence farming (I only had rdm and I was around 64 so farming was not easy. I was still inexperienced and all) with Tiger fangs.

Is erase important? Definatly. Do they need them at 32? Not really. IMHO they are not that used till lets say 50s. Do the hunting grounds you hunt require Erase? Find another place to hunt. Its just like sky access. If some members doesn't have a sky pass find another place to hunt which doesn't require that.

 

[Rones]

STR down shaves 30-40 damage off my attacks. I normally do 140. Considering over 10 attacks, thats 400 damage lost. Not to mention, the damage loss on WS and Barrage is even greater. Please tell me that Erase isn't worth it?? {lie} That is 3 attacks worth of damage, or about 15 seconds off the mobs life. 15 seconds is more than enough to stop your PT at Chain 4.

BS, absolute utter BS. :x 1 str = 1 dmg. For a better explanation read here. I can provide more sources as well if you want, but -10 str (absolute worst from crabs) isn't going to cause your dmg to drop by 40 points. Crabs do use a stoneskin ability a lot that could throw off your numbers, but it is not the str down crippling you. As for ws, the loss is even less as you can see here.

Just a little more melee dmg info.

Many are arguing 300k shouldn't be stopping you from buying it and that is true. Most people should be able to get 300k if they really need it, but just because you can buy it doesn't make it a worthwhile expense (especially for someone on their first job past 30). Take raise 2, that would be well worth the cost and many whms would be hard pressed to not get this spell. Erase though is in so much less demand, out of all my whm spells. It is one of my least used spell, I don't even keep it macroed anymore because I found I just never needed it. Seriously, how many could say they would throw away 300k for all of 2-3 exp parties (that could still happen and just change spots)?

What about ninja? Utesesmi USED TO BE 300k+, thank god its only like 230k plus. Not to mention the pain in the ass to get the first utsesmsi.

So since utesmemi @ level 37 costs this much, my point is this.
What if i ninja had your thinking? "Omg 300k is way too much" And didnt have this spell?

How can you compare a critical spell (blink) that is the only reason the job exists to something so unused like erase? Blink is the sole basis for nin tanking, whm's basis isn't curing. A better whm spell to compare blink to would be cure 1 to 5. Neither could do their job without that.

Everyone saying just suck it up and buy it still haven't provided good reasons to even warrent getting it at mid lvls (30-60).

 

[Rones]

whm's basis isn't curing.

Typo: whm's basis isn't erasing.

 

[xKronox]

Utsesmi: Ni used to be 300k + a few months ago.

Let me give you an expample.

My friend Takinori.

level 40 ninja is his highest job.

Not only does he have jugusti gi, and emperor hairpin, but also all ninja spells.

I don't expect a whm to have the spell right away, although it would be nice.
But when your fighting spiders i expect you to have it. and even more because of the reasons many have explained in this thread.

 

[Rones]

From 1-75 you exp on spiders how many times? Twice at best. :roll: Nin whine about spending ~10k on blink for one party, but for a whm to spend 300k for just 2 parties against spiders when you could just as easily exp on something else? Not a good reason and lets keep this in perspective. Slow is bad, but its not game ending, slow on a nin is pushing the recast timer on ni from 45sec to ~52. From what I remember, its only the upper lvl spider slow that beats haste as well(eg: dragon's aery spiders 68-71 exp and boyada tree spiders 49-52 which I would rather do garliege citadel beetles or quicksand caves).

and even more because of the reasons many have explained in this thread.

What other reasons? We already countered the ones you posted earlier, some of which were even blatanly wrong such as saying you needed erase for status effects that had an -na spell to fix them already. This spell is so overrated and overemphasized its rediculous. You should have made a thread whining and moaning about lvl ~50 whms with lvl 20 gear, no dark or light staff, whm's with bad subs, and whm's missing raise 2 or protectra X way before you whine about erase. If erase is the only problem you have with a whm, you should consider yourself ever so fortunate.

I can't wait for someone to claim erase removes weakness, that's all this thread is missing (unless someone already posted it). :roll: Although that would finally create a valid reason to have erase if only it were true.

 

[DodgeRoadRage]

Utsesmi: Ni used to be 300k + a few months ago.

Let me give you an expample.

My friend Takinori.

level 40 ninja is his highest job.

Not only does he have jugusti gi, and emperor hairpin, but also all ninja spells.

I don't expect a whm to have the spell right away, although it would be nice.
But when your fighting spiders i expect you to have it. and even more because of the reasons many have explained in this thread.

Thats why you ask before you go there, "WHM, do you have erase?" If the answer is no then hunt some other mob.

 

[xKronox]

Im usally not the party leader.

 

[Taruwaru]

BS, absolute utter BS. :x 1 str = 1 dmg. For a better explanation read here. I can provide more sources as well if you want, but -10 str (absolute worst from crabs) isn't going to cause your dmg to drop by 40 points. Crabs do use a stoneskin ability a lot that could throw off your numbers, but it is not the str down crippling you. As for ws, the loss is even less as you can see here.

Just a little more melee dmg info.

Go back to basic math class rones. The STR difference is MULTIPLIED by the attack/def factor, which that sight says is capped at 2.0. That means that according to your sight, 10 str could add 20 damage.

 

[Theorist]

BS, absolute utter BS. :x 1 str = 1 dmg. For a better explanation read here. I can provide more sources as well if you want, but -10 str (absolute worst from crabs) isn't going to cause your dmg to drop by 40 points. Crabs do use a stoneskin ability a lot that could throw off your numbers, but it is not the str down crippling you. As for ws, the loss is even less as you can see here.

Well, it may have been exaggerated, because I said I haven't dissected it as we have been XPing in marathon sessions. But I do know it decreases my damage by A LOT. Enough to make me scream for Erase if I am worried about keeping the chain alive. I know the difference between their Def Up ability and the STR down.

Bottom line is, it affects me greatly. Not only are my attacks going negative, but everyone elses as well. Like I said, small things add up to a lot. I and can garuntee you we add about 10-15 seconds to a mobs life with STR active. Byby Chain 5.

 

[Svina]

Idunno bout you but WHM was my first job and I sure as hell managed to make more than 300k at the level 20s... there's always crafting, even the smaller profit recipes can make enough money over time to get you by. If i had continued WHM to 32 before I switched to SMN at 30, I would've had Erase, guaranteed.

And don't say "well I can't put money into crafting"...please... I got cooking up to 40 and made frickin mithkabobs for money, and I only had 5k to start the craft off with. Where there's a will there's a way. But I don't think you NEED it early on... but like 60+ it's very useful IMHO. What about Raise III? That's way more expensive than Erase, but can you live without it? Well probably, but a pickup party will probably look down upon you if you can only raise II them on a wipeout...I mean the main reason WHM get invites at that level is for raise III

 

[alanon]

Ok my 1/2 a cent.

At level 60, the only time I have seen a need for erase is when the Pld/mages get hit with dia/bio or other spell that prevents a /heal. This situation really doesnt arrise much though. The Whm in my static does not have erase. Does it slow down xp? Not in the least. We've been to Kuftal, terrigan, boyhada, Onzozo and we chain 5 constantly. The only thing that slows xp is bathroom breaks. Especially with us pitchin in to buy our pally a Drk staff, we fly now. Granted this may change depending on where we go post-60, but until this point, it hasnt been needed.

For the comment of Blm having cheap spells till 70. Yes they are cheap. Mainly because a lot of them will drop during those coffer key hunts. Same goes for Whm too. I know I have given away shelra4 and others. However, I have easily spent 500-700k in spells from 50-60. Before some melee come in spouting off the price of the hauby, bear in mind that this is the cost of spells ONLY. I have all elemental staves, including HQ ice totalling 1.2 mil or so. Plus another 400k in other equipment (zicon ring, Justaucorps +1 etc). Like someone said, you can sell the hauby.

Lastly, AM is a toy (even freeze) that makes melee go and that's about it. It's all terribly mp inefficient. Oh and Dire, a good blm can know when to burst with -aga or switch (I.E Blizaga2 vs Water3). I know where you are coming from, I to have had those bad experiences in the jungle or the nest where a Blm tried to burst with an -aga and you're just like "WTF? Dumbass" :lol:

 

[Shia]

Well you forgot Stona -_-; Whm is like pld tank. Whm can fit in any mobs you face in FFXI but other mages such as rdm, and smn will pretty much depend on the party structure. (Like smn main healer as a pld tank its pretty hard if they put the smn into main and sole healer or rdm with 5 needing refresh and hes the sole healer, like pld drk mnk rdm blm brd PT it makes life hell to the rdm)

Bit off topic but I saw the price raise on raiseIII was actually shocked... My friend bought it for 25k... now its like 200~300k.

 

[teng]

This thread is a joke, i (smn) 80% of the time i am main healer and i don't have erase. Does any of the party memers care whether i have erase, answer is a No. They're more concern whether i have fenrir, which i don't have, they ask why, i said, you can help me and no reply suddenly. :shock:

Botton line is 300k is not worth it for a shitty erase scroll and yes SOME ppl will need it at HNM fight BUT how many ppl want to do HNM fights at lv.70, well? Just cause some whm is in an Goddam HML LS doesn't mean he/she has to brag that every WHM must have erase, am i right?

I never got erase, never will too, i rather put that gil into good use in better gear or save it for the next job i level.

 

[Rones]

Go back to basic math class rones. The STR difference is MULTIPLIED by the attack/def factor, which that sight says is capped at 2.0. That means that according to your sight, 10 str could add 20 damage.

Wrong. I'll explain the formula better for you:
[Damage] ＝ [Base Damage] + [D] x [Damage Rate]

Damage is the number that pops up above the mob's head when you smack it.
Base damage is your str - mobs vit. This is the only place str is factored in.
D has to do with the dmg amount on your weapon, eg: 25 dmg club
Damage rate has to do with your attack divided by mobs defense * a variable amount.

As you can see, -5 str from a crab is going to cause exactly -5 dmg. If he was really hitting for 100+ as was stated earlier, that isn't that crippling.

Idunno bout you but WHM was my first job and I sure as hell managed to make more than 300k at the level 20s...

Svina, you know you aren't a good example for that. :wink: You spent weeks crafting to get your money. Most players at lvl 32 on their first job (whm or melee) won't have 300k gil spare. I didn't break 100k pocket change until I reached lvl 53 when I was going for a 360k darkstaff on my first job. This is much like the vermillion coat argument, yes it is helpful to have, but the cost/benefit ratio is too steep for most who don't have that kind of money just laying around (myself included).

 

[Zanaga]

But when your fighting spiders i expect you to have it.

weeeeeee! he's prancing around the same argument, totaly ignoring all the facts ^.^v

and Rones, i bought a few rings and messed with my stats, it's 2 str = 1 atk, not +2 but 2, so if your str is 31 and you add +1 your atk goes up 1, same for 2 vit = 1 def, just a helpful bit of info if you guys haven't messed with your stats before^^