"Whm don't need gear" >Nirrti

[Cyruktion]

First off, holy shit Hollie has those lvld already O.O lol he got a lot done in 6 months

Second, I guess your right about giving people tips in /tells because of the privacy, but if on certain occasions some players still blow up at you and call you a bad player ect then I do believe that flamming would be the right thing.

LoL.

First: Hollie is Uber Leet FTW! LAWLZ for rizzle.

Second: Agreed.

 

[Solan]

Absolutely. The more MP thing is especially critical unless they're a Taru. You can get a full NQ Seer's set from the Jeuno AH for less than 40K. If you don't have 40k, work on getting gilz instead of handicapping a party.

The part that bothers me most is that the WHM said MND isn't important for WHM. If you are going to level a job, understand what your modifiers are and what stats you need to focus on, even if you are only levelling said job as a sub. You hurt yourself and anyone who xp's with you if you have no clue about your job. By level 30 even, there really isn't an excuse for that type of ignorance.



That depends on how the OP offered assistance. Hopefully, it was done tactfully and via /tell. It is natural for most people to lash out when they are embarrassed, especially publically.

Yea usually by lvl 30 is when people start to get "Oh that kind of gear enhances my skill0rz" mostly because at around 30 gear with more beneficial stats are available to players. Your right also about the mp, even a little mp goes a long way. I've seen a Galka WHM with over 1300MP (though he did have really high end HQ+god gear ect)

Your also right about how people tend to lash out to players who call them out in party chat due to embaressment.

 

[Kunel]

Well I am glad most of you agree that this is unacceptable.

It just pisses me off when players like this get by.

Whether its your second character or mule you dont care for, whether you brought a PL with you, I DONT CARE. Lvl the job properly!

Its one thing to get pissy when I tell you your gimp. Its another when you turn around and attack me for no reason. My BLU is far from gimp presently, and I have confidence I am good at what I do. Mainly because I take pride in each job I lvl.

 

[Winklewil]

I personally have several things to say about this topic

1. If someone has bad gear and can't do their job, just don't play with them.
2. If they have good gear but can't do their job, don't play with them.
3. If they have bad gear but do their job as well as they can. Play with them.

Can you honestly not see, though, that "having bad gear" and "doing their job as well as they can" is a direct contradiction in terms? :rtfm:



I understand there are differences in how much time certain people have to invest in the game. I understand that there are those who can only play on weekends ... or, worse, only a couple of hours on Sunday. I understand that the rate at which certain people advance is severely limited by certain, real-life obligations.

I also understand, however, as ONE OF THESE PEOPLE, that it means jack-squat regarding the minimum of what others have the right to expect of you.

I don't care if you have exactly twenty friggin' minutes in a month to play this game. If your equipment is badly in need of an upgrade (and I mean, BADLY in need), I have absolutely no qualms about telling you that I fully expect you to devote every second of that twenty minutes to doing what you need to do to upgrade that equipment FIRST, before you decide to inflict yourself on five other people in a party.

If your character is 20 game-hours old, and most other people have invested a minimum of 7 of those game-hours on nothing but gil and equipment, the same is true of you. I don't care if your playtime has to be divided up into more periods of shorter-interval sessions. The ratio of job-readiness to actual-play still needs to remain the same. If you can only sit down for two hours at any given time, this does not mean that you're given a pass to invest less of the time that you DO have available towards the "boring" stuff.



If you have a problem with this, as a "casual player" ... well, I'm sorry, but it may be time to consider the possibility that this sort of game just is not meant for you. An MMORPG, especially one like Final Fantasy XI, requires a certain investment of time and dedication that is not common of most other gaming pursuits. "But I still wanna play" is not a good enough excuse to inflict gimpness on other people, when you're constricted by real-life obligations.

Either you use what time you have available (as I, and countless others, do) to FIRST make sure you're at a bare-minimum of preparedness, and consider partying a second priority ... or, if you can't handle that, realize this is just not your genre.

 

[Bajaratt]

Can you honestly not see, though, that "having bad gear" and "doing their job as well as they can" is a direct contradiction in terms? :rtfm:



I understand there are differences in how much time certain people have to invest in the game. I understand that there are those who can only play on weekends ... or, worse, only a couple of hours on Sunday. I understand that the rate at which certain people advance is severely limited by certain, real-life obligations.

I also understand, however, as ONE OF THESE PEOPLE, that it means jack-squat regarding the minimum of what others have the right to expect of you.

I don't care if you have exactly twenty friggin' minutes in a month to play this game. If your equipment is badly in need of an upgrade (and I mean, BADLY in need), I have absolutely no qualms about telling you that I fully expect you to devote every second of that twenty minutes to doing what you need to do to upgrade that equipment FIRST, before you decide to inflict yourself on five other people in a party.

If your character is 20 game-hours old, and most other people have invested a minimum of 7 of those game-hours on nothing but gil and equipment, the same is true of you. I don't care if your playtime has to be divided up into more periods of shorter-interval sessions. The ratio of job-readiness to actual-play still needs to remain the same. If you can only sit down for two hours at any given time, this does not mean that you're given a pass to invest less of the time that you DO have available towards the "boring" stuff.



If you have a problem with this, as a "casual player" ... well, I'm sorry, but it may be time to consider the possibility that this sort of game just is not meant for you. An MMORPG, especially one like Final Fantasy XI, requires a certain investment of time and dedication that is not common of most other gaming pursuits. "But I still wanna play" is not a good enough excuse to inflict gimpness on other people, when you're constricted by real-life obligations.

Either you use what time you have available (as I, and countless others, do) to FIRST make sure you're at a bare-minimum of preparedness, and consider partying a second priority ... or, if you can't handle that, realize this is just not your genre.

Exactly. While a naked WHM might still be somewhat useful to the party compared to a naked melee/tank, that in no way allows them to not have any gear at all. If you don't have the time to put even the slightest effort into your job, don't level it and definitely don't get bitchy when others feel your gear is unacceptable.

I had a WHM in my party in Qufim when I was leveling my DRK sub. I forget the name, started with a V though. They were a melee whm, wore almost no +mp gear whatsoever; and when asked to stand back and help cure they started bitching at us, took off all of their shitty gear and told us(Me especially, which I found hilarious) that we had no idea how WHM worked. They absolutely refused to take any advice at all and insisted they knew were playing correctly and that I knew nothing about the game. Our leader had to go after that, and I got leader. Guess who found themselves kicked a minute later?

If someone is that bad, and completely and vehemently refuses any and all advice; grow some balls and kick them. If they aren't going to put any effort into their job, they don't deserve to level that job up.

Due to work and school, I've shifted into the area of "casual player," but that doesn't stop me from making sure my shit's in order before my flag goes up.

 

[Kirlua]

Again it's all about gearing up BASIC gears, we are not asking you to use Astral Ring, we are not asking you to use +1 gears or HQ gears, we are asking you to equip basic gears, i am sure you can get 2 Saintly Ring.

I am sure you can get Justice Badge, i am sure you can get the lvl14 waist, heck seer set is not even that expensive nowadays. We don't even expect you to use a HQ baron set.

Anyway, there is a big difference between being elitist and equipping for basic gears. In this case, it's the latter one.

 

[Jojojo]

I seriously think SE should remove the cure cap. Why is it even there?

It makes WHM so boring. I loved City of Heroes because I could uber out my healer and be awesome at it.

With WHM, it makes very little difference what your MND or healing skill is, especially in the mid levels...only MP and HMP makes a big difference.

 

[Kotsu]

I seriously think SE should remove the cure cap. Why is it even there?

It makes WHM so boring. I loved City of Heroes because I could uber out my healer and be awesome at it.

With WHM, it makes very little difference what your MND or healing skill is, especially in the mid levels...only MP and HMP makes a big difference.

Mind makes the biggest difference, from what I've seen, with Cure 5. It raises the amount Cure 5 will heal. It's also important in some of the Club-Weapon skills a white mage has.

 

[Cyruktion]

Can you honestly not see, though, that "having bad gear" and "doing their job as well as they can" is a direct contradiction in terms? :rtfm:

I don't think you read the entire post where I went on to explain that some people don't know what they should be using in a given situation. And if they are doing a decent job of playing the job without the stuff they should have; then you should let them know what they are doing wrong in a respectable manner and maybe even HELP them for a change. Take them on a quest, tell a BLM he needs to get a slime oil to quest warp or a stack of Boyhoda Moss to increase his rep so he can do a quest for a specific item to make some money. If everyone would take a little bit of time to help players that want to be good, but don't know how, I believe that the in-game experience would significantly improve for all of us.

 

[Garvin]

I don't think you read the entire post where I went on to explain that some people don't know what they should be using in a given situation. And if they are doing a decent job of playing the job without the stuff they should have; then you should let them know what they are doing wrong in a respectable manner and maybe even HELP them for a change. Take them on a quest, tell a BLM he needs to get a slime oil to quest warp or a stack of Boyhoda Moss to increase his rep so he can do a quest for a specific item to make some money. If everyone would take a little bit of time to help players that want to be good, but don't know how, I believe that the in-game experience would significantly improve for all of us.

Any good player knows gear is part of the equation. No such thing as a good player "without the stuff they should have" really.
Also, "players that want to be good, but don't know how" don't exist. There are only "players that think they're good, and don't care how to actually play well".

 

[Cyruktion]

Any good player knows gear is part of the equation. No such thing as a good player "without the stuff they should have" really.
Also, "players that want to be good, but don't know how" don't exist. There are only "players that think they're good, and don't care how to actually play well".

Can no one understand that all I'm saying is to help people out? If you help someone become a better player then one day you might end up in a party with them and have a great time.

 

[Jojojo]

Mind makes the biggest difference, from what I've seen, with Cure 5. It raises the amount Cure 5 will heal. It's also important in some of the Club-Weapon skills a white mage has.

Looked at ffxiclopedia, and wow, MND boosts Cure V like crazy...MND*1.5 is added onto one's regular healing.

Until then, though, you're stuck with a soft cap. Only an insane amount of MND will even raise your heals by a little...maybe I'm too much of a power gamer, but I like to tech my character out, and simply equipping for MP is not my idea of that.

Take out the soft cure caps, SE!

 

[Romper]

Looked at ffxiclopedia, and wow, MND boosts Cure V like crazy...MND*1.5 is added onto one's regular healing.

Until then, though, you're stuck with a soft cap. Only an insane amount of MND will even raise your heals by a little...maybe I'm too much of a power gamer, but I like to tech my character out, and simply equipping for MP is not my idea of that.

Take out the soft cure caps, SE!

Yes so you can cure bomb a tank, and take hate then die. You are so right.

 

[Bajaratt]

Can no one understand that all I'm saying is to help people out? If you help someone become a better player then one day you might end up in a party with them and have a great time.

We understand that, but you're not understanding is that they wouldn't need that kind of help if they had any intelligence or skill at all. You're treating people who don't know the nuances of the game and the people who don't give a shit about even basic stat concepts are the same people. If you don't know that increasing your STRENGTH makes you hit harder or that MP is useful for ANY mage job; you're not a "diamond in the rough" player, you're a fucking idiot.

When I first started this game, I didn't know about everything; but I had the intelligence to actually try to find out. I knew what the basic stats meant, and knew that I'd need money to buy anything worth wearing; both of those are so basic they're just slightly above knowing you're going to need internet access for this game. If you are not going to do even the most basic of research; which even in-game you could do research just by looking at the auction house, other players or even ask someone, then you're not really worth partying with.

 

[Halifirien]

Some players are interested in learning better ways to do their jobs, and they're a joy to have in a party. When I see a WHM in my parties making mistakes, I'll send them a /tell and explain how they can improve their efficiency. I'll go out on a limb for those guys.

But then you get players who just don't give a shit and will completely ignore anything you say or get defensive and angry over any slight criticism. I was partying with a WHM in Bibiki Bay last week who after 65+ levels was little more than a cure-bot. She almost never used Regen, missed every status ailment -- last time I checked, dhalmels only had two to worry about -- and the BRD who'd only leveled WHM to 32 was running rings around her. She had her Dark Staff equipped for cures, for fuck's sake.

She didn't handle criticism very well.

 

[Bustaballs]

My subjob on whm is only lv34 and I'm not leveling it anymore. I refuse to get great equip for jobs under lv50 (except COR <3 ). I have Shade and Seers set in storage for lower lv jobs and I keep up with newest weapons. I don't usually care about the rest. I'll usually at least grab some cheap food though. I play the game to have fun, not to spend months farming gil so people don't say mean things to me just because my subjob isn't lv37 and I don't have the best gear in the game. (I refuse to get +1 armor because I can't store it.)

 

[Halifirien]

I play the game to have fun, not to spend months farming gil so people don't say mean things to me just because my subjob isn't lv37 and I don't have the best gear in the game. (I refuse to get +1 armor because I can't store it.)

Yeah, but we're not talking about having the best. We're talking about being merely adequate. This thread and the one about Seemehow are good examples of players unwilling to make the barest minimum of effort for a job.

 

[Bustaballs]

Well, I don't know. When I first started the game, I never had a fully leveled subjob and I had horrible gear. I was a lv32rdm/10rng that meleed and cured. I didn't have half of my spells either because they were too expensive for me. I never had any rings, earring, waist, or back items. No one ever said a damn thing about it back then. When I started my new character when I came back to the game, I played as I was expected to play rather than how I played before. Maybe the guy is new and doesn't know what's expected.

 

[Negorissimo]

WHMs really DO need gear. We cant have healers running around like bums, WHMs are the ELITE.

C'mon people represent!~

 

[GhostinmyShell]

Yeah, but we're not talking about having the best. We're talking about being merely adequate. This thread and the one about Seemehow are good examples of players unwilling to make the barest minimum of effort for a job.

The great thing is that a decked out WHM, we're talking HQ and that super duper lv 1 MP ring can get to 37 without a SJ and no one would really know any better. h34r: