WHM ideals question

Veovis

Veovis

Neer-do-well
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Joined
Nov 17, 2004
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759
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42
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San Jose, CA
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WhiteMage-Male
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Quetzalcoatl
FFXIV
Veovis
Should a WHM feel pride if they die saving the rest of the pt? That is to say, if they drop a few high cures and heal up the rest of the pt at the cost of their own life, or they bene after a terrible bomb drop and end up biting the big one for the sake of the rest of the pt? I dont mind a death, besides usually I have reraise up when I xp anyway. Making sure everyone in the pt lives is -my- job, right? I take pride in my work. And I take deaths as a badge of honor.

I ask this because the other night I was in a pt with some experienced players (or so they seemed, they had subs and the majority of them had advanced jobs) in the dunes and I was playing as a thf/war. Our nin tank was about to die because the mnk wasnt gonna voke the mob off of him, so I did when he was below 60hp. Well, being the taru that I am, I got smacked around like hell while he got utsusemi up, and he voked it off of me and we all were happy. He said "Damn Veo, thought you were gonna bite the big one". I replied to this with "I fear not pain nor death", as I always do when someone says that. Then someone said "you'll say different when youre higher level". I then explained that I played a whm, and that I was always willing to take one for the team. Especially if its a good pt, we'll make back that lost xp. They informed me that was the PLD's job. I told them it was my job to heal, not the pld's. If the mob is horribly powerful, and we werent expecting it to be so, you cant fault the tank for taking loads of damage, nor anyone else. Well then I got told I was a bad whm if I died.

I dont think I am a bad whm, i've never had anyone complain to me when I heal people, but am I wrong in having this idea in my head? That its okay to die so no one else does? I'm the only one with Reraise in the pt, after all, 90% of the time..Just curious to other opinions from others on the subject.
 
I dont think you are a bad anything with that attitude. Its very nice to see people take one for the team. As RNG, if I ever have a link, I DO NOT come back to camp. I bite the big one. As BLM if I misstarget, sometimes, I just run away from PT, and let them finish off the main mob, and die instead.

I think what you did was right and very noble of you. :D
 
Here here! I'm glad I'm not the only one.

I've stayed behind longer than Paladins to get a party safely zoned. Being a Galka makes that job just a bit easier, though I've been chewed out for it more than once in the past. "WHM not supposed to die!" speeches. Yup, I agree, but I'll die for a party if I feel they'd die once (not necessarily twice or more) for me.

Cheers, Bro
 
What makes a party great is your willingness to die first in the PT. If your willling to save their ass so you die once, then your just doing your job, don't worry.
 
Well for the most part, if you die...then the rest of the party is screwed. I mean think about it. The Pld dies from a big one shot hit right? Or maybe he gets dropped like a rock and you try and save him. You have a chance to Bene knowing it will kill you...

So if you do then you die. The mob then turns to the Pld and with nobody to cure him, kills him and so forth. Now if the Pld dies, then you have other jobs that can hold out for a bit. I can hold off a bat for a good while as long as I have someone spamming cures into me as a Ranger. Now if there is no Whm, were all screwed.

You are supposed to live in the event it does go bad..you can then Raise everybody quickly. And if you die and use reraise, then you have to wait for 5 mins on top of raising anyone else. Tank is supposed to be first to die thats just how it works. If everyone is last to zone...then nobody zones...

Faedryth
 
nope. im outta there. im the one who has to come back and raise everyone, right?

i have taken one for the team before. i'd probably do it again, if it were the right people. but in a random party with people that i dont know, who are asshats and half the time are about to die because of their own faults, no. im not gonna stay back and die.

i dont trust a lot of people in this game. theres a reason that i havent partied with my main in 2 months and the only other times i've pt'd is screwing around int he dunes and with people in my linkshell who i am staticing with.
 
I'll eat a death if I know it'll mean the mob dies. There's a reason I keep Reraise up at all times. A little Benecide can go a long way.

Tanks and WHMs like to fight about who gets to die first., since their jobs are based on keeping everyone else alive. My first instinct is to do everything in my power to keep people alive because I'd rather have them get away than have them take an XP hit from dying. If I can do that by dying in their place, I'll do it.

I'm not the kind of WHM who'll cut and run for the zone ahead of everyone. If nothing else, I stay a pace or two ahead of the tank and throw out cures so they can make it, too.

Having said that, I agree with Panda that it's a case-by-case situation. Some parties probably aren't worth the sacrifie.
 
when ever i tank as a nin i've always been ready to take one for the team. mainly cause of the nin 2 hour but thats a good thing. and another thing. if a team mate is giving their life to save the rest of the party dont waist it. run to safety while they have the mobs attention. (if my 2 hour doesnt kill the mob at least)

basicly if im dying for u, u better be zoning. :P
 
I will say that I agree with your ideal to sacrifice yourself if you need to. I've done it before without really thinking about it, and I'll do it again.

That being said, there was a 4 level gap where I honestly wasn't as willing to die for the party as I am now. That was during the 56-60 gap, before you get reraise 2. If someone in my party died, they knew they were going to get at least a raise 2. If I died, I would most likely get a raise 1. I took many R1's so that I could R2 the rest of my party during that time, but I still didn't like it.
 
Time to die. Convert Divine seal Cure IV. Plus chainspell nuking will give my party enough time to regroup as I rip the hate away from the tank.
 
I will usually try to sleep anything that may haopen to come back with the puller, (even with great pullers it happens) and if things take a long time, this will usually result in my death and in 1 case the WHM in our group died keeping me alive. ^^; Needless to say I was very thankfull and fed him for the rest of the PT.

That was one of my PT's with Silfer, and I think that situation actually occured because a Clebotrops(sp?) spawned right next to one we were already fighting and decided that he would cure his mortal wounded buddy. Interesting fights, but damn if I don't love those Dhamels! :lol:
 
Veovis said:
Should a WHM feel pride if they die saving the rest of the pt? That is to say, if they drop a few high cures and heal up the rest of the pt at the cost of their own life, or they bene after a terrible bomb drop and end up biting the big one for the sake of the rest of the pt? I dont mind a death, besides usually I have reraise up when I xp anyway. Making sure everyone in the pt lives is -my- job, right? I take pride in my work. And I take deaths as a badge of honor.

I ask this because the other night I was in a pt with some experienced players (or so they seemed, they had subs and the majority of them had advanced jobs) in the dunes and I was playing as a thf/war. Our nin tank was about to die because the mnk wasnt gonna voke the mob off of him, so I did when he was below 60hp. Well, being the taru that I am, I got smacked around like hell while he got utsusemi up, and he voked it off of me and we all were happy. He said "Damn Veo, thought you were gonna bite the big one". I replied to this with "I fear not pain nor death", as I always do when someone says that. Then someone said "you'll say different when youre higher level". I then explained that I played a whm, and that I was always willing to take one for the team. Especially if its a good pt, we'll make back that lost xp. They informed me that was the PLD's job. I told them it was my job to heal, not the pld's. If the mob is horribly powerful, and we werent expecting it to be so, you cant fault the tank for taking loads of damage, nor anyone else. Well then I got told I was a bad whm if I died.

I dont think I am a bad whm, i've never had anyone complain to me when I heal people, but am I wrong in having this idea in my head? That its okay to die so no one else does? I'm the only one with Reraise in the pt, after all, 90% of the time..Just curious to other opinions from others on the subject.
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I have loads of respect for you. I'd invite you anyday of the week over the other person simply because of your attitude, that is a party attitude and it shows you put the party first before your own needs. Thats what inspires others, thats what makes great parties.

There are others who may do the exact same things as you, but make the party feel bad or uncomfortable when they die. They are a good a party person as you, but will never have the respect that you have from people that know how to play in a party.

/salute

And don't be mad at the people that caused you to post this, they simply do not know any better.
 
As a thf i raely get the chance to die for the team but i do find it kind annyoing when tank is in the red and mages have no mp and they wont let me try to hold the hate and blink tank the damn thing.

Only once have i ever gotten to tank when the monster when the tank has died and thats cause sneak attack>drg voke thatnks to jumps.. Was fun tanking that spider though took it from 90%hp down all the way using sneak attack as a voke.
People really need to consider the option of lettin the thf tank the monster when all hell breaks loose more often . We tend to survive alot longer than anyone and im normally at full heath anytime the rest of the party drops into red.
 
Reminds me of my party with Vet =\ mistargetted a Rarab, immediately told them to ignore it + let me die, but they tried to save me anyways....
Aaaaand reraise II worse when I was about 1/2hp -.-

I usually try to save the party despite the fact that it kills me, unless it's a shameful circumstance, i.e. person runs through half a dozen Robber Crabs without sneak....
 
Falsey said:
I dont think you are a bad anything with that attitude. Its very nice to see people take one for the team. As RNG, if I ever have a link, I DO NOT come back to camp. I bite the big one. As BLM if I misstarget, sometimes, I just run away from PT, and let them finish off the main mob, and die instead.

I think what you did was right and very noble of you. :D
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YOU SIR ARE GREATNESS!

That is what makes yhoator jungle so F'D up....is people who go pulled, get gobbies aggroed on them...and then they run away, passing other parties....they hardly EVER get to the zone, die anyway, then the gobbies end up going back and seeing more people to kill.....and that pisses me off.

but you do what i think people should do all the time!

when i leveled warrior, i was tank most of the time.....if things went bad....i would try to voke and run it away from them so the rest of the party could zone (if they would listen to me that it is....sometimes its hard to be noble with stupid people around) And i will die while they get away.

Same with ninja....

I play my role as a character, like Dark Knights are kinda evil...so i be evil.....but i have done things an evil person normally would not do.....often as drk when things go to hell, i will do what i can to get all the hate on me, so that others will live.......so meh...i guess i am still not all that evil.
 
It's noble but it's not wise. Of all people to take hate, the WHM is going to distract the mob the least amount of time because you'll die so fast. As well you can raise the others. And for the most part tanks feel much worse when the WHM dies than when they die.
 
Koutetsu said:
I play my role as a character, like Dark Knights are kinda evil...so i be evil.....but i have done things an evil person normally would not do.....often as drk when things go to hell, i will do what i can to get all the hate on me, so that others will live.......so meh...i guess i am still not all that evil.
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I think it's called Lawful Evil. <.<

But, yea, if things go bad... A DRK can pull more hate in less time than anybody else save a PLD's 2-hour. Berserk - Last Resort - Souleater - WS - Provoke = You have hate and are gonna keep it until that null defense kills ya.
 
Veovis, you're doing the right thing, never feel bad for taking one for the team. Yes, there is always that question of who should die first, tank or whm? Well in my opinion, if you have mp still, you should cure and give it all you got. If it comes down to one certain death and the whm stops curing so he does not get hate (and the death), that's sad... understandable, maybe logic, but still sad in my mind. As for Bendiction, well, that's what 2-hours are for, critical times.

Whenever I play tank and I see that it's turning bad, I usually don't wait for people to zone (cause usually they don't :wink: ) I well it once, voke then start running away from the party and try to find a safe place for a raise. (Remember that damn Banshee in Qufim lol) No hate fighting or arguments on who dies. And as someone said, if I do that, you better zone before it comes back, that's the whole point, buying time for the rest to zone.

Same thing when I pull, if I get a link or a pop on the way, I eat it and take the hit, unless I can Shadowbind and somehow make it out with just one mob. Once, on my DRK, a while ago, I was pulling in Cralwer's Nest and acted like a total n00b, training 2 soldiers from Secret Room to the zone..... picking up about 15 Worker Crawlers on the way.... :oops: I felt so bad I never did it again.

So anyway, don't feel bad for taking one for the team as a whm. It is certainly better then warping cause things are turning bad (yeah, I've seen that.... :evil: )
 
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