Whm sub question~

ForteTeppo

ForteTeppo

A-NON-E-MOOSE
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Feb 11, 2005
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I was just thinking, would it be a good if not just decent idea to have a brd sub for a whm +50? I know a lot of whm's sub smn for all that extra mp and auto refresh, but i'd like to hear what everyone thinks bout a whm/brd for aoe balled~ Thanks for ur time ;3
 
Brd sub for whm is not great. You lose more MP from yer MP pool then you gain from ballad 1. But! I say try it out, tinker about with it and see iff'n you like it.
 
WHM/BRD at Lv50 would be rather useless sorry to say. With WHM/SMN, you get 1mp/tick refresh, with Ballad1, you get 1mp/tick refresh. If you look at it for the refresh factor, WHM/SMN is plainly better because it doesn't need you to cast it all the time. Plus, it gives you lots of other options as well. However, having Ballad would be okay because then you can cast it on everyone and not just yourself.

It basically depends. I'd go WHM/SMN myself for the MP. WHM/BLM is best in lots of ways though. If anything, I'd just go WHM/BLM for Conserve MP, Warp, and other spells like Aspir, Sleep, etc.
 
Ill admit ... I did whm/brd post 50 ... and well idk why people let me do it lol, I have to say it wasnt that bad though ...

But pre 50 I would say sub blm and post 50 sub smn ... brd a still a great sub for ballista though ^.^:thumbsup:
 
Whm/brd isn't a bad combo 50+. Yes, you lose out on mp, but getting an extra mp/tick makes up for it, and you're able to help out the entire party's mp pool. I never heard a paladin complain about getting 4 mp/tick during parties. If you have a bard already though, the sub isn't nearly as good though.
 
You lose out on so much MP by subbing BRD. The song takes 10 seconds to cast, and that 10 seconds = 1 tick of resting, so you're probably losing out on 20-30 more MP EACH time you sing, depending on your +hMP. If you sing during battle, that's 10 seconds where you will be unable to do your job. If the tank gets in trouble, you won't be able to heal.

Using it to sing a song on melee and a song on mages is also a bad idea. That's 20 seconds of resting you're going to miss out on, and 20 seconds where again, you're not doing your main job (the one that prevents the group from wiping).

I'm not saying it won't work, heck, almost anything will *work*. But if you get in a good group that can pull quickly, you'll run out of MP much quicker with this setup.
 
Taruwaru said:
You lose out on so much MP by subbing BRD. The song takes 10 seconds to cast, and that 10 seconds = 1 tick of resting, so you're probably losing out on 20-30 more MP EACH time you sing, depending on your +hMP. If you sing during battle, that's 10 seconds where you will be unable to do your job. If the tank gets in trouble, you won't be able to heal.

Using it to sing a song on melee and a song on mages is also a bad idea. That's 20 seconds of resting you're going to miss out on, and 20 seconds where again, you're not doing your main job (the one that prevents the group from wiping).

I'm not saying it won't work, heck, almost anything will *work*. But if you get in a good group that can pull quickly, you'll run out of MP much quicker with this setup.
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At 75, I lose out on 98 mp when I sub bard; but I also have so much +mp gear(1000+ without food) that it's not a big loss. In really fast parties your total mp isn't nearly as important as how fast you can get it back. Ballad will also help out everyone else with mp in your party, meaning less downtime overall for everyone.

When I used /brd, I would wait until the monster was almost dead, usually around 5-10% then get in position and ballad. By the time the song was finished, the mob was usually just killed, so I could run back and rest immediately. I'll agree with buffing the party, it's a waste of time for the boosts they get; finale doesn't work either.

I find it rather funny that the people who say that whm/brd sucks are all bard mains according to their sigs, while the whm mains say it's allright. Don't worry, we won't steal your jobs :wink:
 
Once I subed Brd for an exp pt in bikiki bay when we could not find a refesher everything went ok.
 
Thnikkaman said:
WHM/BRD at Lv50 would be rather useless sorry to say. With WHM/SMN, you get 1mp/tick refresh, with Ballad1, you get 1mp/tick refresh. If you look at it for the refresh factor, WHM/SMN is plainly better because it doesn't need you to cast it all the time. Plus, it gives you lots of other options as well. However, having Ballad would be okay because then you can cast it on everyone and not just yourself.

It basically depends. I'd go WHM/SMN myself for the MP. WHM/BLM is best in lots of ways though. If anything, I'd just go WHM/BLM for Conserve MP, Warp, and other spells like Aspir, Sleep, etc.
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:3 I like how Thnikka says whm/smn really is better then /brd but has the hidden msg: (play) that (fun)(key) (music) (White Mage)!!

In anycase I love hearing eveyone opinions because after Pld and some other jobs i'mma lvl whm to 60 for af and would like to know which job be more suited. Thanks everyone and please continue this discussion ^-^
 
Subbing bard should be situational. It's not a sub that parties will criticize you for not having. You could get to 75 with /blm and /smn. For that matter, you could just pick one or the other and 90% of parties won't notice or care. Having subs like /rdm and /brd available is nice to go the extra mile though. That said, /blm and /smn are the standards for a pretty good reason. With /brd being a situational sub, to be honest, the only situation I can think of where it might be valuable is in a party with no other source of refresh, and a pld tank. A ninja tank with a whm main healer wouldn't be mp intensive and blms are pretty reliable even w/o refresh.
 
A Taru whm/brd can handle it great if there is a red mage in the party.
You don't sub brd to get the 1 mp refresh thats just a bonus, you sub bard to be a better support job.
Taru's have a large supply of mp already, if you know how to conserve it /brd will increase the xp/hr. The problem is most taru whm's suck ass and can blow 800mp in 1 fight.
other races can handle it as well, it more less requires SKILL to play it that way. You can boost your melee, weaken mobs, give your mages a mnd or int boost or give them a extra tic of refresh.
a GOOD whm doesn't need millions of mp to be effective, they just need the know what they are working with and subbing brd ISN'T for the ballad.
 
Taruwaru said:
I'm not saying it won't work, heck, almost anything will *work*. But if you get in a good group that can pull quickly, you'll run out of MP much quicker with this setup.
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This makes me laugh, what lvl is your whm? The best whm i have ever played with was a whm/brd at lvl 72. The dude was rocking, if you have a good party mp becomes less of an issue. Subbing brd isn't a good a idea for a shitty whm that already blows all there mp on a ninja in one the two fights, its for skilled players that understand "conserving mp". as a 63whm/blm i was able to have almost full mp each fight before even resting with a a pld tank. Not because i wasn't doing my job, but because i knew what to cast and when to cast it. I sure as hell know that i can find 10 seconds here and 10 seconds there, whether it is a ninja tank or pld tank.

I have to agree with this statement
Bajaratt said:
I find it rather funny that the people who say that whm/brd sucks are all bard mains according to their sigs, while the whm mains say it's allright. Don't worry, we won't steal your jobs
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WHM/SMN Gives alot more buff options than WHM/BRD. Come on now, Minuet 3 at level 75 is nothing like Minuet 4.

Don't forget about Aerial Armor, Stoneskin, and w.e.

WHM/BRD is ok I guess when there is no refresher in the party, but really, when you have refresh armor, and Auto refresh, /BRD is usless, espically depending on your job. If you sub SMN you can focus on more MND gear perhaps instead of MP.

Ballad 1 by its self is nothing really, however, balladII+I is differnent. Stoneskin+Aerial Armor > Ballad I

I don't know if you can get those casts at level 50, because I don't know SMN, but this is my response to those who said this is a good SJ at higher levels, that is just nonsense.

It's still open debate at level 50, however, I guess it depends on your PT setup. I would still look at my race, gear, and other player skill. If you have a peice of paper for tank, you would be kicking your self for that extra mp from SMN. If you don't have a BRD, hell it could lower downtime, and kill time ALOT.

The main thing is to have fun, and do what you want, as long as people don't mind. Be considerate.

Shit I have some weird ass parties at LV75. Weird Subjobs, and wierd setups, but we get chain12~20.

Shit works if you make it work.
 
xKronox said:
WHM/SMN Gives alot more buff options than WHM/BRD. Come on now, Minuet 3 at level 75 is nothing like Minuet 4.

Don't forget about Aerial Armor, Stoneskin, and w.e.

WHM/BRD is ok I guess when there is no refresher in the party, but really, when you have refresh armor, and Auto refresh, /BRD is usless, espically depending on your job. If you sub SMN you can focus on more MND gear perhaps instead of MP.

Ballad 1 by its self is nothing really, however, balladII+I is differnent. Stoneskin+Aerial Armor > Ballad I

I don't know if you can get those casts at level 50, because I don't know SMN, but this is my response to those who said this is a good SJ at higher levels, that is just nonsense.

It's still open debate at level 50, however, I guess it depends on your PT setup. I would still look at my race, gear, and other player skill. If you have a peice of paper for tank, you would be kicking your self for that extra mp from SMN. If you don't have a BRD, hell it could lower downtime, and kill time ALOT.

The main thing is to have fun, and do what you want, as long as people don't mind. Be considerate.

Shit I have some weird ass parties at LV75. Weird Subjobs, and wierd setups, but we get chain12~20.

Shit works if you make it work.
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Again, this is coming from a bard main, not a white mage main while blatantly ignoring what the whm's say. Is it the best sub, no, but it's still a perfectly viable option. If you have a brd in the party, don't go /brd, because you won't bring anything with the sub; but if you have a rdm or no refresher at all, /brd is perfectly fine.

With /smn, you only get aerial armor, which at 96 mp per blood pact, along with the initial summoning cost and the perpetuation cost of having garuda out, is a huge chunk of mp to spend in one shot; and whm doesn't have as much mp as smn does. That's the only buff people ever use /smn, so you get 1 buff with each sub job.

I still go for mp over mnd when I'm /smn, because once you hit the soft caps for cures(which is ridiculously easy), it takes a ton of mnd to get 1 more hp per cure, and I'd rather get the mp for 2-4 more cures in there than 2 hp per cure.
 
Bajaratt said:
Again, this is coming from a bard main, not a white mage main while blatantly ignoring what the whm's say. Is it the best sub, no, but it's still a perfectly viable option. If you have a brd in the party, don't go /brd, because you won't bring anything with the sub; but if you have a rdm or no refresher at all, /brd is perfectly fine.

With /smn, you only get aerial armor, which at 96 mp per blood pact, along with the initial summoning cost and the perpetuation cost of having garuda out, is a huge chunk of mp to spend in one shot; and whm doesn't have as much mp as smn does. That's the only buff people ever use /smn, so you get 1 buff with each sub job.

I still go for mp over mnd when I'm /smn, because once you hit the soft caps for cures(which is ridiculously easy), it takes a ton of mnd to get 1 more hp per cure, and I'd rather get the mp for 2-4 more cures in there than 2 hp per cure.
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You just TOTALY missed what I just said. ;;

"Shit works if you make it work."

I'm not saying it's a 100% all the time bad idea, sheesh.
 
xKronox said:
I don't know if you can get those casts at level 50, because I don't know SMN, but this is my response to those who said this is a good SJ at higher levels, that is just nonsense.
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xKronox said:
I'm not saying it's a 100% all the time bad idea, sheesh.
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Sounds like it to me.
It also sounds like your not listening to those that understand it. subbing bard is situational, if your playing with a rdm and not a brd it works wonders escpically witha ninja tank. Your whole philosophy of
xKronox said:
Stoneskin+Aerial Armor > Ballad I
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just got pwnd in your face. funny, i didn't notice that it was only bards arguing this, baja noticed though.
Bajaratt said:
Again, this is coming from a bard main, not a white mage main while blatantly ignoring what the whm's say.
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Sorry, but trying to cop out of any response after categorical denials of the subs worth doesn't work.

xKronox said:
WHM/BRD is ok I guess when there is no refresher in the party, but really, when you have refresh armor, and Auto refresh, /BRD is usless, espically depending on your job.

Ballad 1 by its self is nothing really, however, balladII+I is differnent. Stoneskin+Aerial Armor > Ballad I

I don't know if you can get those casts at level 50, because I don't know SMN, but this is my response to those who said this is a good SJ at higher levels, that is just nonsense.
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One of the best Whm I have partied with was /Brd. Now, maybe he was just reeeaaally good at his job, but the job combo worked like a charm! We partied in Bibiki Bay mid-60's and it was awesome. He was taru so MP was not a problem, and he had me (rdm) to back him up while he sang if someone needed a cure. I do believe his name was Nanunanoo (sp?). But I remember looking him up almost everytime I started a party!! I wonder if he ever got sick of me stalking him.

All I am saying is the one and only experience I have had with whm/brd turned out to be excellent. I refreshed, he sang Ballad and our MP was never low. I say the job combo might work/might not work depending on the 'person' behind the Whm. That's just my opinion.
 
I'll put it this way, i've never been jaw dropped by the skill of a whm/blm or whm/smn, i have jaw dropped for a whm/brd
Nuff Said i'm done with this. You guys have your ideas and that's fine, but /brd can be one of the best subs for whm if worked properly and in the right party set up. Then again maybe your skills don't reach much farther then spamming a cure macro (or meleeing EEK) so you wouldn't know. *edit: If you even play whm at all*
 
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