Who gives a **** about sneak attack?!?!?!?!?!

[Faedryth]

To all people who can't play THF, DON'T! Stop giving the rest of us good ones a bad name you fuckers!

Poor guys. Its sad that every class says this. What about those people that just cant get the game?! Dont they deserve a chance to play a job too?


Seriously though:

All they have in life is SATA Viper bite/dancing edge when they get high.

Other then that they do craptasticly poor damage.

This statement is not well thought through. You take any class and take away their primary ability and you have a useless member. Take away a rangers ranged attack - weak, take away a Blm mp - weak, you get the point.

Yeah the thief was obviously a moron, doesnt need to be confirmed by us. Lets not throw out comments judging all the other members of a group because of one person.

 

[Duffman]

Good THF = Good pt... I completly agree.
Last night=Bad THF in <Garliege Citadel>.

Mobs= Siege Bats
Thf="you do this. this guy stands there. I do this. you do that."

Siege Bats are hard to keep hate for some reason. This is my second
time thru the Citadel and I've seen MNKs PLDs NINs WARs SAMs struggle
to keep the attention of a Siege Bat. They move around a lot.
(just my accurate observation)

naturally it is screwing up the THF's sata. THF starts blaming everyone
and reissuing commands..."get behind him....somebody?"
mob moves again:
THF="now you stand here"
THF=me me me me me me me me me me (i in team?) just constantly.
...............in the midst of battle-spam................more commands...
It just gets tiring for ONE hit. Granted it is a huge hit and a hate holder
but it gets really tiresome. We had two SAMs so we didn't need to rely
on SATA anyhow.

I just made sure to keep my back to the wall (skinny Citadel corridors)
so the THF would pick on the other sam and pld. THF got his SATA
every once-in-awhile and I was finally left alone to concentrate on
skillchaining. PT before that had no thf and 3 sams. PURE DAMAGE.
didn't need the dancing around and constant commanding orders.

I would've liked a good thf instead(or a third sam). I know you guys are actually out there. No really, not predjudice! Some of my best friends
are THFs.
[/b]

 

[Chouzan]

Good THF = Good pt... I completly agree.
Last night=Bad THF in <Garliege Citadel>.

Mobs= Siege Bats
Thf="you do this. this guy stands there. I do this. you do that."

Siege Bats are hard to keep hate for some reason. This is my second
time thru the Citadel and I've seen MNKs PLDs NINs WARs SAMs struggle
to keep the attention of a Siege Bat. They move around a lot.
(just my accurate observation)

naturally it is screwing up the THF's sata. THF starts blaming everyone
and reissuing commands..."get behind him....somebody?"
mob moves again:
THF="now you stand here"
THF=me me me me me me me me me me (i in team?) just constantly.
...............in the midst of battle-spam................more commands...
It just gets tiring for ONE hit. Granted it is a huge hit and a hate holder
but it gets really tiresome. We had two SAMs so we didn't need to rely
on SATA anyhow.

I just made sure to keep my back to the wall (skinny Citadel corridors)
so the THF would pick on the other sam and pld. THF got his SATA
every once-in-awhile and I was finally left alone to concentrate on
skillchaining. PT before that had no thf and 3 sams. PURE DAMAGE.
didn't need the dancing around and constant commanding orders.

I would've liked a good thf instead(or a third sam). I know you guys are actually out there. No really, not predjudice! Some of my best friends
are THFs.
[/b]

dude...

one Sam and a thf is awesome and you had 2 sams!

1 of the sams pulls, comes back to camp and vokes the bat. You get behind the mob. Thf gets behind you. Tachi: Enpi >>> SATA Viper bite for Distortion. Hate is planted firmly on you. It's not hard to do...

 

[Direwolf]

Ok maybe its just me and my poorly thuhght out things, but here is the opinion of my brother a lvl 64 THF who has full AF but does not use it because of better gear. "THF F*****ng sucks, I wasted my time getting it here, I have had seek up for four F****m weeks and I do not get one god damn invite. He then proceded to bitch on how he was doing critical hits for 10 points of damage in exp parties.

And yes a good thief has thier place in a party, however you take a thief with 500k worth of gear, and take a samurai/Dark knight/Monk 500k worth of gear. Now assume both know how to use thier job. Who would you want in your party? 9/10 groups do not want thiefs. The proof? Ask any Mid to High lvl thief how long they go lfg. Oh yea in Garlaige citadel and before it aint to bad. Most groups are pick up groups, get to the zone and see who is LFG. Later when groups are planned? Only two jobs get less invites, Dragoons and Beastmasters. But hey what do I know I just need to listen to my THF friends/family talk about never getting invites.

 

[Chouzan]

or whoever the main tank is gets behind the mob. that's what i meant (i assumed you were tanking, but now i'm thinking i was wrong about that).

 

[buell]

thanks for posting the link to the parser logs fellina, i liked that. my brother plays thf and runs a parser so i was already aware that they are very good damage dealers. but i have a problem with the parser you showed.

it looks like the drk must have been the initial voker for the thf to be able to do his SATA onto the tank. i am a drk and i dont mind doing this for the thf. but the problem is it means that most of the time i can't do what i do best. if i have to voke it puts me higher on the hate chain and i can't do things like berserk last resort and soul eater (not at the same time silly) these things all cause hate and after a provoke i can't risk using them to often. if i do i end up taking to much damage and it ends up not being worth it because of the mp the whm will have to spend.

i have been in parties with thf's where i did not have to be the SATA buddy and when i am able to use all my little tricks i can outdamage most classes, yes thf also. my weapon skills can get almost as powerfull as a SATA and my damage over time is good also. the only thing that limits me is how much hate the tank has. also i am only level 42 now. i haven't gotten the big bonus to my attack yet. once i get that i hear that drk is even that much better. i do not have sniperrings yet. i dont really have much of the 40+ equip yet at all. and i do a pretty darn good job.

i'd like to make a friendly competition with a THF. i'll be his SATA buddy in a party for 45 minutes. so that he can hit as hard as he wants. but then i want my 45 minutes where i dont have to voke so that i can hit as hard as i want. i'll run my parser(you can to) and we'll compare notes after. i'm not out to say "i rock and you suck" i just want to have some fun.

also note: the drk abs spells help all jobs hit for more damage or more often. give us a little credit for those.

 

[Duffman]

Chouzan,

I said "some of my best friends are THFs"...ok that was just a silly joke.
I agree with what you said about keeping hate squarely on me or the
other sam. I don't have a problem with being the sata partner. Just two
things were wrong with last night in the citadel.

1) neither sam was the tank (pld in group)
2) the THF was too busy typing commands, and PLD couldn't hold hate.

It is not squarely the fault of the THF. I am not bashing the job or the skill. I just don't like the player behind the THF who spends half the fight
attempting to pull off SATA then blasting the group when they miss it.

As a 47WAR, I've been SATA partners a lot. A good portion of the time,
the THF is very quick to preload the skill so he/she can fire it off and the
group can get back to business. The unskilled THF, takes a lot of the pt's
time in attempting to set it up ..(1/4 to 1/2 the fight trying to SATA then
misses it) If I wasn't in those groups at the time, I would've thought it
funny. Since I was in those situations, I find it ineffective or time-wasting.

Give me a good THF and I'll stand perfectly still behind the mob until
SATA goes off. The job is great, most players are good-great.
The poor THF players just need more organization and (maybe) better
equipment.

 

[Chouzan]

Duffman

I agree with your points. It's just that hate control should be the responsibility of the party as a whole. (incidentally, when I typed that post, I was just assuming that you were the main tank. apparently i was wrong. Substitute the PLD for anywhere that I typed "you")

So anyway, SATA works best when all members of the party know their respective roles. Like I said, hate control is not just one persons responsibility. Trust me, as a tanking WAR/NIN, I'm accutely aware of the fact that I have come to use SATA as a crutch really. I have a blm in my static and I want him to be able to nuke like crazy.

Anyway, I guess what i'm saying is that you're not going to see your problems go away until you take the time to educate the people that you are partying with. Take 5 minutes before you start pulling to define everyone's role. It will result in a much more pleasant experience. ^^

 

[Fellina]

Unfortunately those logs don't have info on what levels we were, where we were xping, and such. It's ben a looooong time since we last used the parser, so I'll do my best to remember. The first couple of logs I can say, with certainty, were before level 30. (I believe the first is at level 22, hitting spiders in Korroloka, and the next would be spiders in East Altep at 25). So, the DRK didn't have a lot of their DD abilities, but the THF also didn't have TA either.

Once we hit 30 and the THF in our group did have TA, we would set it up so the DRK gained initial hate- but not with a voke. (DRK actually had THF sub, heh). Typically, we'd make sure we had full TP at the beginning of the fight, DRK would Sneak Attack and Power Slash to gain hate, then THF would SATA Viperbite (or Wasp Sting, earlier on) onto PLD Right at the start of the fight. After that, the PLD only had to voke once and we were set for the rest of the fight. (Actually, our PLD complained that his job was TOO easy with the setup we had- he never lost any hate before it died, heh.)

I agree that if we were to run the parser now, our THF would be behind the DRK in damage dealing, now that we're all getting to about 45 and have a lot of the cooler abilities. In fact, even the DRK may be behind the BLM currently, who is starting to get the 2 line of spells. That still doesn't mean that the THF isn't cutting it anymore, though- if anything, with the shakeup we had at lvl 40 (changing PLD tank for WAR/MNK) he's needed more than ever. That nice damage he does is just icing on what the THF is needed for- hate control.

 

[Duffman]

Chouzan,

Yeah, all good points. Hate is really easy to keep in some places
and a pain in others. That poor PLD was trying hard but those
Siege Bats just go nuts sometimes. They get very mobile.
Luckily the WHM was spacing out the cures and there was enough
/war to help out. It just made the THF's job tough. I bet that
guy was pretty frustrated.

Well thanks for the dialog. I started out with something akin
to a /rant and it turned out to be a good discussion.

 

[Tyrion]

Listen you fuckers, this is the goddamn flameboard! You wanna have a discussion, take it to general discussion! I want to see some flaming here!

(PS: For those of you without a sense of humor, this was a joke.)

 

[Mohoso]

Listen you fuckers, this is the goddamn flameboard! You wanna have a discussion, take it to general discussion! I want to see some flaming here!

(PS: For those of you without a sense of humor, this was a joke.)

Alright then.

I play THF for my main.

All jobs have their faults thats why you make parties to balance it out.

Fuckin' Deal with it.

Don't like THF's don't fucking invite them.

That is all.

Mo...


LOL

 

[Duffman]

LOL Tyrion...
I read the first part and my ears turned red
heat built up in my face
and i was getting pretty pissed.

then i saw j/k and knew you meant it.
so i vented it off with nervous laughter.

does my boss know /slap?

 

[Xelos]

Listen you fuckers, this is the goddamn flameboard! You wanna have a discussion, take it to general discussion! I want to see some flaming here!

(PS: For those of you without a sense of humor, this was a joke.)

Hmmmmmm Tyrion you want flame? I'm not in a flame mood so I will just post every single hate, racist, disgusting, sexist, enfuriating, depressing, horrible, inhumane, random, no hope, offensive, immoral website in the face of the universe on here:

www.ebaumsworld.com

~Welcome Home Tyrion~

 

[Ezikiel]

I would just say then, it must suck to be a THF that can't cause damage.
I don't share that problem.

Nor I...

+20 Dex and +17 Agi at level 37

My record SATA +VB on an IT mob is 546+325 Distortion

Pre TA, I often stole hate from NIN and WAR tanks in Qufim. I do not remember ever having a SA land for less than 100 then.

Unfortunately there are ALOT of bad THF's out there, and we are viewed as whiney, stressed out little bastards. I hate it.. but love the job way too much to quit.

 

[Sneakypants]

I would just say then, it must suck to be a THF that can't cause damage.
I don't share that problem.

Nor I...

+20 Dex and +17 Agi at level 37

My record SATA +VB on an IT mob is 546+325 Distortion

Pre TA, I often stole hate from NIN and WAR tanks in Qufim. I do not remember ever having a SA land for less than 100 then.

Unfortunately there are ALOT of bad THF's out there, and we are viewed as whiney, stressed out little bastards. I hate it.. but love the job way too much to quit.

Nice. I just saw these numbers. It looks pretty comparable to my THFs numbers actually. I have less DEX and AGI, but I have +31 Eva... think DEX is still plus 15 and I crit all the damn time so I know it's working.

My best SATA+VB wasn't at 300%, for some reason. And it was like 220% maybe. It was 587 if I remember correctly, and an additional 300 and change from distortion. That was on an IT gob, hopped up on a chiefkabob, around level 39 I would say.

SATA+Fast Blade is just NUTS! :shock:
But it isn't as useful in a chain.
That bad boy has hit for over 700 on it's own.

I can't wait for even better gear and DEX and AGI bonuses...And more weapons skills. DE, <drool>