Why hello thar US tax payers money!

[Dejavu]

I dont want to play this game anymore... This is fucking bullshit... The estimations of all of the bailouts in the last 10 weeks ranges anywhere from 1trillion to 10 trillion because in all honesty we have no idea just how bad things are... What does that mean for you the tax payer? That means that in the last 10 weeks our share of this bail out is anywhere from 3600 to 36000 dollars each person...

I mean each person too i don't care if you 70 days or 70 years old you have your chunk. Where is this money going to come from? Oh im sure we will have the printers working overdrive to get this shit fixed. I dont want to sound like the sky is falling but we are going to have a second great depression like sequence and this is basically assuring it. We are nationalizing more debt than most of the people in this country make in a year if we are infact getting the 10 trillion side of the estimate. And the problem is.. i dont see anyone in Washington saying that we need to stop.

They are just sitting there with a shit eating grin on their faces completely ignorant to what they are going to do to this country by continuing to try and put off the pain.

Think about this problem like a guy who was shot in the leg, he is afraid of needles so he doesnt want to have the bullet removed... he lets it sit in there and it festers and soon enough the entire leg needs to be cut off in order to save the guy and he still refuses to let them touch it... we are fucking dooming ourselves to extreme pain because we don't want to go through what would have been a minor correction 5 years ago.

Personally i think im gonna start buying some extra canned food every week so when the shit really hits the fan i can still afford to eat. And don't try to fool yourself this is going to get much worse before it even attempts to get better.

And that is only the short term effect... toss on the effects of inflation and some interests and only god knows what the full effects of this bailout will be.

 

[Rorschach]

I feel bad for the next guy who has to be president. Its looking more and more like a total shit job at this point. I mean theres Iraq, national deficit, these bail outs which add even MORE to the national deficit and who knows what else will go under with the government ready to bail their asses out.

If I were more paranoid, I would say that these things are coming at a very convenient time to when Bush is leaving office for the next person to be viewed as the bad guy.

Dej you said that "Ah but this is another problem and probably the strongest driving factor that is pushing for this bailout to happen. China's $376 billion of long-term U.S. agency debt is mostly in Fannie and Freddie assets meaning that we would be defaulting against our biggest lender in the US... the Chinese government. If we default against them then what idiots would ever buy US debt after this."

So what would be the results of that? Would we have to then make products in the US like back in the 50s? Would we have to become an isolated nation? I'm not an economist and I really havent been doing my homework as to China's lending practices so what would something like that do in the long-run?

 

[Dejavu]

I feel bad for the next guy who has to be president. Its looking more and more like a total shit job at this point. I mean theres Iraq, national deficit, these bail outs which add even MORE to the national deficit and who knows what else will go under with the government ready to bail their asses out.

If I were more paranoid, I would say that these things are coming at a very convenient time to when Bush is leaving office for the next person to be viewed as the bad guy.

I feel bad for the next guy as well but i am 100% confident based on the comments that they are making when they are running for president that Obama or McCain neither has really differing views on this subject will deserve any shit that hits them.

Dej you said that "Ah but this is another problem and probably the strongest driving factor that is pushing for this bailout to happen. China's $376 billion of long-term U.S. agency debt is mostly in Fannie and Freddie assets meaning that we would be defaulting against our biggest lender in the US... the Chinese government. If we default against them then what idiots would ever buy US debt after this."

So what would be the results of that? Would we have to then make products in the US like back in the 50s? Would we have to become an isolated nation? I'm not an economist and I really havent been doing my homework as to China's lending practices so what would something like that do in the long-run?

Well the way that US debt is generally held is in what are called Treasury bonds. Now under Bush we stopped issuing 30 year bonds for some reason (i really don't understand why) and started issuing only 10 year bonds in Oct 2001. Now the reason that this is important is because as soon as the bond matures generally what happens is that the treasury wont pay off the bill but they will in fact kinda refinance it. So say china had 500 that expired on x date. Instead of giving china 5,000,000 or whatever their face value is we will say something like i will give you 600 if you reinvest those now and then in ten years after those mature you will have 6,000,000 dollars worth.

This is how it has kinda gone for a long time with just constant paying of interest basically by continually selling bonds to the same people and never actually paying them in cash.

Now back to my point i originally made. If we screw China on the fannie mae and freddie mac thing what is going to make them be willing to continue to hold debt in the US (i doubt they would be happy if 376 billion vanished into thin air). China could absolutely cripple the US just by saying ... nope we would rather have our money. As bad as this is going to sound at this point the government cares more about what china thinks than the tax payers because... what are we going to do. Thats right were lazy americans... nothing.