- Joined
- Dec 6, 2004
- Messages
- 947
- Age
- 39
- Location
- Brandon, FL
- Main Job
- Secondary Job
- Third Job
- Server
- Quetzalcoatl
Reread if you have to. It's simply as wrong as a whm just coming out and hasting, silencing, slowing, but not healing. Now, this is an argument about weither or not smn should heal, if they are healers. My argument is that they are healers... with me so far? I never said you do or do not agree to this point. BP are -MOSTLY- useless. And I've said mostly. And I don't know why you are so offended, until you struck at me I wasn't meaning any offense towards you. Smn like me make you bitter as you said, yet you also said not to make any jugments (which I was making based on the info you gave)unless I pted with your teammates and then you go on and do the same. You havn't seen how I played. My point has never changed. Above all it's the fact that these smn need to get cracking and start healing. I don't care if they summon! Just so long as they heal. If the whm's mp is good, likely he/she will haste, ect ect, to put to use that extra mp... that is what smn should use BP for. I never told a smn not to summon. I have asked them to stop meleeing with their avatars, and to summon less heal more.
"Point A) You come out and tell me my blood pacts are useless...but then you come back and say that summoners should use blood pacts to help their party? I mean...what's your stance? I make a point that yes summoners are main healers but in certain situations it's just not working for me. I've argued with summoners that JUST heal and never use avatars...to the point that they tell me they only have carbuncle and nobody even notices are useless. This pisses me off and what you came off as being. I've also met summoners that won't heal and think they are massive damage dealers...also pisses me off! You give an example of a summoner that tells you to main heal at the begining of a battle while they summon and give them kudos? News flash! That's what I do! Do they always listen....NO! "
Jeeze, don't take this so personal. This is an argument about smn in general, not you in specific. My stance is, as I have said (maybe not too clearly it seems -_- though I doubt that is the case) is that smn should stop meleeing with avatars, stop casting ice spikes then resting... You're right, smn who only heal are pretty bad as well... but tell me, what is worse? A smn who heals but does not summon, or a smn who smn's but does not heal. Which does the most harm? -I- do both. Also there are no "cases where smn are not main healers" Most of the cases you pointed out are where no healer would be too happy about.
Once again.. clarify... if you are not healing in your pt, what ARE you doing? And how does that make you more useful then say.. a blm, a drk, or maybe a bard that could be in your spot? Would the pt be hurt, stay the same.. .or improve?
"I think I mentioned multiple times I think a good summoner should use both blood pacts and the /whm sub to keep their party alive and MAIN HEAL. I've also drilled in my issue with paladins and given multiple examples WHY I have problems with them. Okay if I'm main healing, not using blood pacts and blowing through 910 MP on a chain of 3, is it my fault? I mean I can't just let the tanks life be red because I feel I'm using too much MP can I? What do you propose oh highly level 70-something summoner? I mean seriously...rain your wisdom down upon my lowly level 50 ass because I'm lost. "
So have I. Moving on.
You're right, it's not your fault.. it's the tanks. It's up to you tho, don't be whining about smn's limitations or what you can or can not do as healer if your tank is just crappy. Even a whm would likely get pissed and leave.
Well... I don't know.. because.. oooh, I got to 70 by leveling forwards instead of backwards, which means not pting with noobs. My tanks were fine, and even the less gifted ones did well. 8) Kudos to you Sandroi and Gregor tho.
B) Where have I leveled? Shak maze (bats), Dunes, kaz, Gar Citidal (bats), Nest, Caves (Spiders), Grl Citidal (bats). Hmmm....4 leveling areas out of 7 that I leveled off bats and or spiders...yeah I never level off these creatures Now that I'm in my static with my BLM and BRD I don't have as many problems with this as they will cure with me. We have a great system going but I've only been leveling with them for 8 LEVELS! My other 42-43 levels have been with random pick-up parties. Parties where YES a BLM won't heal because it's not his job, Parties where the BRD doesn't even have up to date WHM spells, parties where the RDM is doing more nuking then enfeebn/curing. You know maybe if I was a RNG I could be a lot more picky about my parites but there have been HOURS where I havn't got a group and I was trying to catch up to the members of my static.
Kick the tank? You're kidding right? There are no freakin tanks left! I've been in parties so desperate for tanks that they do the hate bounce trick between a RDM/DRK/RNG just because there are no tanks seeking!
Bats, actually that's 2 areas for bats, and 1 for spider. Not that much. You know.. you don't have to go to maze of shakarami, fighting those bats was your choice, you deal with what happens. You could of avoided those bats, but I guess you like bats. You can avoid caves too but I see your point there, just like gar you are pretty much stuck fighting bats or spiders. Well, not really in caves case but eh. No one likes the bats or spiders. The time I leveled in B. Tree was horrible, I hate spiders, most all of us do. I had to go half main healer (as rdm) to make sure our tank never dropped below 80% hp because then sickle slash could kill him. And we had a whm. So.. this is not a smn exclusive thing, as really has nothing to do with if,how, or can a smn main heal always.
"Kick the tank? You're kidding right? There are no freakin tanks left! I've been in parties so desperate for tanks that they do the hate bounce trick between a RDM/DRK/RNG just because there are no tanks seeking! "
Heh I would of said the same once.. smn invites are horrible, and the few invites are usually crappy pt's. Most smn don't whine because they don't know any better.. I surprised when I leveled rdm.. Anyways.. um right... we are delving into the "that's just sad state". I just passed your level recently, I was 50 rdm about a week or 2 ago... and guess what, I'm 60 now. No insult, I know how bad invites are for smn and that is most likely why, but.. yeah I had no problems with tanks, so what are you talking about? Hell most of 50-60 I got to ride on ninja tanks , which are normally rare to have so often to pt with, or great pld tanks. Thanks have never been a problem for me as -any- job. Just getting pt's period was.
C) I'm the idiot? I make a post just pretty much saying that if you expect a summoner to not summon ask them if it's okay with them before an invite. Then I make some valid points of why I don't like partying with Paladins and you blatantly come out and say "Your wrong." How the hell am I wrong? I break down your post into easy to manage points and address them one by one and you come back with some garbled mess followed by a bunch of "heh"s and say I'm sad?
You know you may be a level 70-something summoner but I've been playing the game just as long as you have and have seen all the crap first hand also. If this was an argument about higher level blood pacts that I don't have or HNM stuff I'd be all ears but it's not. It's about experiences with the blood pacts and main healing issue that I allready have in party situations that I'm experiencing! Jesus I think you're like skim reading my posts or something....you say something then come back with a completely different point at the end of your post. Then you make comments about my Static not healing (Bard imparticular) After I made it VERY clear that the mage healing problem wasn't an issue in my current static but was a major issue before I was with them. I'm just Furious right now.
Um, right. About your static, I was pointing out a flaw in it, because you complained about missing cure 4, blah blah, and I said if you had a pld or that bard there that you had, they could heal and it wouldn't matter. Don't know about the "very clear" part either. Anyways, if you ask me, you've been 50 levels of not very good pt's over all. And you know, I never ask a smn to only heal, so if that is your point, Will do captin! If I ever tell a smn to heal only, I will make sure it is alright with them. Hope you are happy. I'd probably kick them anyways if they didn't feel like healing. Or leave myself.. because you can.. to solve problems with your pt. >.> S-E gave us those kick and disband commands for a reason.
I'm glad you are angry.. you know, I should be mad as well. But. I'm laughing. I just find it funny. I don't know why I'm wasting time arguing with you in the first place, since I've already said my point is to have smn heal instead of just summon, and yours is to have smn not just heal. I've already laid out my points, so go reread if you don't by now get what it is.
If you are doing as you have said, healing AND buffing, ok then. Let me check off my list one more smn who has a clue. I'm happy for you. Now, start telling that to all the other smn. Because I've pted with smn (I used to look for them before whm, because of remembering myself as smn and knowing people don't naturally look for smn) a lot leveling up rdm, but now I usually leave the pt if the healer is a smn. Why? Because I try to help, all I get is that "Dont tell me how to do my job crap". And I won't, I'll kick your ass from pt or leave myself. I don't even look for smn anymore now. Why should I have you take a space when I want to level, that a blm could of filled? Or a whm, who I know will actually heal and keep us alive?
I'm the idiot? I make a post just pretty much saying that if you expect a summoner to not summon ask them if it's okay with them before an invite. Then I make some valid points of why I don't like partying with Paladins and you blatantly come out and say "Your wrong." How the hell am I wrong? I break down your post into easy to manage points and address them one by one and you come back with some garbled mess followed by a bunch of "heh"s and say I'm sad?
Ok, you don't like playing with pld, what does this have to do with your abilities as a smn or a healer? If you are burning 900 mp like you are saying.. instead of going "Man, I hate main healing with pld because I can't do as much and I have to cure soo much.. a whm would be much better.. I don't even have cure 4..." you should be going "Well, this pld sucks. Yup, look at that crappy armor. I'm going to be wasting a ton of mp on this sucker.."
I made my points and adressed each of your points aimed at mine in that last post. I think you are the one skimming.. or maybe things are not just settling right in your brain? I've read each and every last of your posts if for nothing else out of respect of the argument. I've been sputtering from the start that smn need to heal, heal, heal! Simply, that is the point. Did I see they have to only heal..? No.Most of my arguments about smn BP was to show how useless they are alone! Their use value is too low for a pt to want them just for the BP. Thats why when smn say hey, all I do is smn and nothing else.. they are wrong. Now smn who heal, can use their BP to help out the pt, what is so hard to understand about that? What part of that do you not understand? Just please tell me do you see that point or not? For goodness sakes, I just want smn to start healing, and stop with the bull crap about weither or not they are healers, and if they have the right to sit there and summon things for the entire pt's length.
"Point A) You come out and tell me my blood pacts are useless...but then you come back and say that summoners should use blood pacts to help their party? I mean...what's your stance? I make a point that yes summoners are main healers but in certain situations it's just not working for me. I've argued with summoners that JUST heal and never use avatars...to the point that they tell me they only have carbuncle and nobody even notices are useless. This pisses me off and what you came off as being. I've also met summoners that won't heal and think they are massive damage dealers...also pisses me off! You give an example of a summoner that tells you to main heal at the begining of a battle while they summon and give them kudos? News flash! That's what I do! Do they always listen....NO! "
Jeeze, don't take this so personal. This is an argument about smn in general, not you in specific. My stance is, as I have said (maybe not too clearly it seems -_- though I doubt that is the case) is that smn should stop meleeing with avatars, stop casting ice spikes then resting... You're right, smn who only heal are pretty bad as well... but tell me, what is worse? A smn who heals but does not summon, or a smn who smn's but does not heal. Which does the most harm? -I- do both. Also there are no "cases where smn are not main healers" Most of the cases you pointed out are where no healer would be too happy about.
Once again.. clarify... if you are not healing in your pt, what ARE you doing? And how does that make you more useful then say.. a blm, a drk, or maybe a bard that could be in your spot? Would the pt be hurt, stay the same.. .or improve?
"I think I mentioned multiple times I think a good summoner should use both blood pacts and the /whm sub to keep their party alive and MAIN HEAL. I've also drilled in my issue with paladins and given multiple examples WHY I have problems with them. Okay if I'm main healing, not using blood pacts and blowing through 910 MP on a chain of 3, is it my fault? I mean I can't just let the tanks life be red because I feel I'm using too much MP can I? What do you propose oh highly level 70-something summoner? I mean seriously...rain your wisdom down upon my lowly level 50 ass because I'm lost. "
So have I. Moving on.
You're right, it's not your fault.. it's the tanks. It's up to you tho, don't be whining about smn's limitations or what you can or can not do as healer if your tank is just crappy. Even a whm would likely get pissed and leave.
Well... I don't know.. because.. oooh, I got to 70 by leveling forwards instead of backwards, which means not pting with noobs. My tanks were fine, and even the less gifted ones did well. 8) Kudos to you Sandroi and Gregor tho.
B) Where have I leveled? Shak maze (bats), Dunes, kaz, Gar Citidal (bats), Nest, Caves (Spiders), Grl Citidal (bats). Hmmm....4 leveling areas out of 7 that I leveled off bats and or spiders...yeah I never level off these creatures Now that I'm in my static with my BLM and BRD I don't have as many problems with this as they will cure with me. We have a great system going but I've only been leveling with them for 8 LEVELS! My other 42-43 levels have been with random pick-up parties. Parties where YES a BLM won't heal because it's not his job, Parties where the BRD doesn't even have up to date WHM spells, parties where the RDM is doing more nuking then enfeebn/curing. You know maybe if I was a RNG I could be a lot more picky about my parites but there have been HOURS where I havn't got a group and I was trying to catch up to the members of my static.
Kick the tank? You're kidding right? There are no freakin tanks left! I've been in parties so desperate for tanks that they do the hate bounce trick between a RDM/DRK/RNG just because there are no tanks seeking!
Bats, actually that's 2 areas for bats, and 1 for spider. Not that much. You know.. you don't have to go to maze of shakarami, fighting those bats was your choice, you deal with what happens. You could of avoided those bats, but I guess you like bats. You can avoid caves too but I see your point there, just like gar you are pretty much stuck fighting bats or spiders. Well, not really in caves case but eh. No one likes the bats or spiders. The time I leveled in B. Tree was horrible, I hate spiders, most all of us do. I had to go half main healer (as rdm) to make sure our tank never dropped below 80% hp because then sickle slash could kill him. And we had a whm. So.. this is not a smn exclusive thing, as really has nothing to do with if,how, or can a smn main heal always.
"Kick the tank? You're kidding right? There are no freakin tanks left! I've been in parties so desperate for tanks that they do the hate bounce trick between a RDM/DRK/RNG just because there are no tanks seeking! "
Heh I would of said the same once.. smn invites are horrible, and the few invites are usually crappy pt's. Most smn don't whine because they don't know any better.. I surprised when I leveled rdm.. Anyways.. um right... we are delving into the "that's just sad state". I just passed your level recently, I was 50 rdm about a week or 2 ago... and guess what, I'm 60 now. No insult, I know how bad invites are for smn and that is most likely why, but.. yeah I had no problems with tanks, so what are you talking about? Hell most of 50-60 I got to ride on ninja tanks , which are normally rare to have so often to pt with, or great pld tanks. Thanks have never been a problem for me as -any- job. Just getting pt's period was.
C) I'm the idiot? I make a post just pretty much saying that if you expect a summoner to not summon ask them if it's okay with them before an invite. Then I make some valid points of why I don't like partying with Paladins and you blatantly come out and say "Your wrong." How the hell am I wrong? I break down your post into easy to manage points and address them one by one and you come back with some garbled mess followed by a bunch of "heh"s and say I'm sad?
You know you may be a level 70-something summoner but I've been playing the game just as long as you have and have seen all the crap first hand also. If this was an argument about higher level blood pacts that I don't have or HNM stuff I'd be all ears but it's not. It's about experiences with the blood pacts and main healing issue that I allready have in party situations that I'm experiencing! Jesus I think you're like skim reading my posts or something....you say something then come back with a completely different point at the end of your post. Then you make comments about my Static not healing (Bard imparticular) After I made it VERY clear that the mage healing problem wasn't an issue in my current static but was a major issue before I was with them. I'm just Furious right now.
Um, right. About your static, I was pointing out a flaw in it, because you complained about missing cure 4, blah blah, and I said if you had a pld or that bard there that you had, they could heal and it wouldn't matter. Don't know about the "very clear" part either. Anyways, if you ask me, you've been 50 levels of not very good pt's over all. And you know, I never ask a smn to only heal, so if that is your point, Will do captin! If I ever tell a smn to heal only, I will make sure it is alright with them. Hope you are happy. I'd probably kick them anyways if they didn't feel like healing. Or leave myself.. because you can.. to solve problems with your pt. >.> S-E gave us those kick and disband commands for a reason.
I'm glad you are angry.. you know, I should be mad as well. But. I'm laughing. I just find it funny. I don't know why I'm wasting time arguing with you in the first place, since I've already said my point is to have smn heal instead of just summon, and yours is to have smn not just heal. I've already laid out my points, so go reread if you don't by now get what it is.
If you are doing as you have said, healing AND buffing, ok then. Let me check off my list one more smn who has a clue. I'm happy for you. Now, start telling that to all the other smn. Because I've pted with smn (I used to look for them before whm, because of remembering myself as smn and knowing people don't naturally look for smn) a lot leveling up rdm, but now I usually leave the pt if the healer is a smn. Why? Because I try to help, all I get is that "Dont tell me how to do my job crap". And I won't, I'll kick your ass from pt or leave myself. I don't even look for smn anymore now. Why should I have you take a space when I want to level, that a blm could of filled? Or a whm, who I know will actually heal and keep us alive?
I'm the idiot? I make a post just pretty much saying that if you expect a summoner to not summon ask them if it's okay with them before an invite. Then I make some valid points of why I don't like partying with Paladins and you blatantly come out and say "Your wrong." How the hell am I wrong? I break down your post into easy to manage points and address them one by one and you come back with some garbled mess followed by a bunch of "heh"s and say I'm sad?
Ok, you don't like playing with pld, what does this have to do with your abilities as a smn or a healer? If you are burning 900 mp like you are saying.. instead of going "Man, I hate main healing with pld because I can't do as much and I have to cure soo much.. a whm would be much better.. I don't even have cure 4..." you should be going "Well, this pld sucks. Yup, look at that crappy armor. I'm going to be wasting a ton of mp on this sucker.."
I made my points and adressed each of your points aimed at mine in that last post. I think you are the one skimming.. or maybe things are not just settling right in your brain? I've read each and every last of your posts if for nothing else out of respect of the argument. I've been sputtering from the start that smn need to heal, heal, heal! Simply, that is the point. Did I see they have to only heal..? No.Most of my arguments about smn BP was to show how useless they are alone! Their use value is too low for a pt to want them just for the BP. Thats why when smn say hey, all I do is smn and nothing else.. they are wrong. Now smn who heal, can use their BP to help out the pt, what is so hard to understand about that? What part of that do you not understand? Just please tell me do you see that point or not? For goodness sakes, I just want smn to start healing, and stop with the bull crap about weither or not they are healers, and if they have the right to sit there and summon things for the entire pt's length.
