Would Voke break PLD?

[Skaw]

Yeah, I don't even really use it unless the thing I'm fighting is EP-T. And it gives me more evasion due to AF Gaiters.

 

[Bigboy]

PLD isn't meant to be a very flixible job in it's uses. Giving it voke would let it be. So yes that would "break" PLD.

It's a tanking job, so giving it options besides /MNK or /NIN would be lame, and even just those 2 are good example's of why they don't get Voke on their own.

I would kinda laugh though if they could "Merit-buy" a voke JA.

 

[Firestreak]

Ok, whatever you want mr."I'm one of the first na 75blm, on quetzal, from my state, on my street".
I'm glad you know exactly what I've been near or not

And leeching off the blms on gods?
Ya, the parsers beg to differ.
Every god I've killed, except 1, I did most dmg of everyone.
Oh, and that time I failed, a sam scored #1 and I was #2.
A blm was found first on #4... However, I dont do gods with the almighty Firestreak, which would explain alot.







/sigh, just /sigh.



This thread should be moved to Good Times. Great fun.

Who's almighty now? Personally, I think you're just full of shit.

But that's just my opnion, what do I know I'm not some dumbass who likes to change his arguments every other page to explain how I'm not wrong contradicting myself? I mean fuck what do I know about hate management.

PS: Seems a little funny to boast how you're the best DD in your LS while at the same time insulting someone for bragging about somehing that can only be described as factual.~~~

 

[Firestreak]

PLD isn't meant to be a very flixible job in it's uses. Giving it voke would let it be. So yes that would "break" PLD.

It's a tanking job, so giving it options besides /MNK or /NIN would be lame, and even just those 2 are good example's of why they don't get Voke on their own.

I would kinda laugh though if they could "Merit-buy" a voke JA.

I do agree it would be quite ridiculous with the merited JA voke, just was thinking in the case of if it was possible then /nin would be the most popular sub.

Hell even if people want to argue that other subs are more beneficial, it would be more popular. I know plenty argue that /nin isn't the best sub for thf yet thf/nin dominates as far as popularity.

 

[Romper]

I don't know if this was brought up I only read the first page, but PLD/RDM is actually really good if because A) Phalanx/Stoneskin/Blink B) Larger MP Pool (slightly) C) En-spells D) Dia/Paralyze/Blind/Slow E) Dispel F) Fast Cast (I don't know if /RDM gives Fastcast)

 

[Blaine]

If PLD got its own voke, yes, they WOULD be broken. They could sub BLU and keep Cocoon on, and keep Def atleast near 999 at all times. Man, that would be pretty sweet, though...

 

[Skaw]

If PLD got its own voke, yes, they WOULD be broken. They could sub BLU and keep Cocoon on, and keep Def atleast near 999 at all times. Man, that would be pretty sweet, though...

Or they'd sub Ninja like the rest of the playerbase.

 

[Blaine]

Or they'd sub Ninja like the rest of the playerbase.

Meh, Ninjas use shadows because they take hits like girls. IF they subbed BLU, they would take almost as much damage as NINs do with shadows up.

 

[Bigboy]

I don't know if this was brought up I only read the first page, but PLD/RDM is actually really good if because A) Phalanx/Stoneskin/Blink B) Larger MP Pool (slightly) C) En-spells D) Dia/Paralyze/Blind/Slow E) Dispel F) Fast Cast (I don't know if /RDM gives Fastcast)

Dispel on it's own would be pretty nifty, it's pretty much a 5/8 voke that you can spam, while debuffing the mob. Too bad most of the stats gained from RDM would suck. I could sorta see it working, but I never have, so I dunno. For it to have stoneskin you'd be looking at a 68+ PLD though. At least they have an enhancing skill...

 

[Pompidou]

Meh, Ninjas use shadows because they take hits like girls. IF they subbed BLU, they would take almost as much damage as NINs do with shadows up.

Yeah but most don't sub ninja because it works. They sub it because it's ninja. You don't need a reason to sub ninja. I think if Blm were released as a new job today, and didn't have years of precedent otherwise, it'd be subbing ninja and dual weilding spoons while spam nuking and meleeing on the front lines. Hate control schmate control - right? Why manage hate when you can manage utsusemi instead?

 

[Firestreak]

Yeah but most don't sub ninja because it works. They sub it because it's ninja. You don't need a reason to sub ninja. I think if Blm were released as a new job today, and didn't have years of precedent otherwise, it'd be subbing ninja and dual weilding spoons while spam nuking and meleeing on the front lines. Hate control schmate control - right? Why manage hate when you can manage utsusemi instead?

Don't knock on Blm/Nin it's brought me 3/3 wins on Tenzen.

 

[Mishaela]

I think PLD/BLU would wind up more useful than PLD/NIN...PLD/BLU with Cocoon having very high defense would mean less hate lost pet hit taken, whereas PLD/NIN, while not taking hits, would wind up losing a ton of hate in the process.

 

[Eulore]

Let me say this again for everyone who doesn't get it.

PLD/NIN would suck horribly pre-74 in comparison to 90% of all the other subs available.

You get 3 shadows and then it's useless compared to other subs unless you want to get interupted a lot, lose hate, and generally be a shitty tank. And as Ish said, a big part of paladin is getting hit and healing yourself for hate, if you're not getting hit, well...

 

[Reko]

Who's almighty now? Personally, I think you're just full of shit.

But that's just my opnion, what do I know I'm not some dumbass who likes to change his arguments every other page to explain how I'm not wrong contradicting myself? I mean fuck what do I know about hate management.

PS: Seems a little funny to boast how you're the best DD in your LS while at the same time insulting someone for bragging about somehing that can only be described as factual.~~~

I am full of shit, it's been a few days >.<
And I have to thank you for all the warm words, dumbass, retard and whatnot.
What is it they say, where intelligence ends the insults begin?
Oh, and I'd be grateful if you could show me where I changed my arguement, cuz if I did I would like to apologize and set it right.


PS: I'm far from the best DD in my linkshell, well, maybe not far but still.
Not close enough to try and say I am anyway.
And I didn't boast about doing more dmg than your sorry ass.
It's different to open your arguement with saying "piss off little boy, I have been lv 75 longer than any NA (In my world)."
Than replying to "stop leeching off blms" with "I do more dmg than blm on sky gods so fuck you mr. stop leeching off the war".

Or is it not?



Or wait, dont reply, I've spent enough time on this pointless discussion.
You think you are right, I think I am right and I very much doubt any of us will end up saying "oh, you were right" after 13 pages of horse shit.

So have a wonderful life, and I hope my fortune keeps smiling on me, keeping you away from me

Cheers,

 

[Kire]

Let me say this again for everyone who doesn't get it.

PLD/NIN would suck horribly pre-74 in comparison to 90% of all the other subs available.

You get 3 shadows and then it's useless compared to other subs unless you want to get interupted a lot, lose hate, and generally be a shitty tank. And as Ish said, a big part of paladin is getting hit and healing yourself for hate, if you're not getting hit, well...

3 shadows? with /nin at lv 24-73 you can get 6

Cast again when on one shadow and when mob has just taken your #2 shadow and it hits you are naked for .5 of a second and then you get 3 more.

Also use flash if uts:ichi is up but you will get hit have enough time to cast it when the mob can not hit you.

 

[Skaw]

Let me say this again for everyone who doesn't get it.

PLD/NIN would suck horribly pre-74 in comparison to 90% of all the other subs available.

You get 3 shadows and then it's useless compared to other subs unless you want to get interupted a lot, lose hate, and generally be a shitty tank. And as Ish said, a big part of paladin is getting hit and healing yourself for hate, if you're not getting hit, well...

Oh, I'm not saying it would be a good decision to. Just that you know if it were an option, a majority of the paladin players would sub it.

 

[neophytal]

I'm one of the first NA BLM to hit 75(2nd or 4th if you count NA who used JP Client), I've had countless different gearsets at 75 over the course of years, I've tinkered with 3 different subjobs, about 6 or 7 nuking strategies and my evasion, for the record, is 8 points above the cap. Disagree with my strategy, fine, don't act like a stupid, closed minded asshole because not every BLM has come to the conclusion that sitting back and debuffing is the best way to serve their party.

I cast blizzard 4? I get hate. It's not a boast, it sucks. My damage is spike damage, not DoT. It's not that I outdamage DDs, it's that my damage is combined into huge hate grabbing bursts. So what have I been doing for the last year? Subbing rdm, getting as much magic attack bonus as possible, casting stoneskin, phalanx, blink and chain nuking so I finish the mob off before my shadows are taken down. It works. There's no middle ground for BLM. You either nuke and take hate or sit back and debuff and try to snipe a kill shot. Sitting back, debuffing and sniping a kill shot is a waste of a party slot. When people invite me, I deal damage, and I'm not the least bit ashamed, and if you want to talk down to me you just show your own lack of knowledge in the area.

i highly doubt you get hate off 1 blizzard4 unless you cast it in the first 5 seconds of the fight.

and if hate is such a big issue, maybe max your -enmity merits?

if they added voke as a level 75 merited ability for PLDs, that'd not break em, I think. It'd prolly piss off a few NINs and WARs prolly that like tanking the HNMs but.. tough shit D: PLD was supposed to be the main tank job after all

not really. paladins didnt tank when the game first came out. they were a melee / backup healer. later as they found cures generated hate, it became more of a tank job, and then they added and expanded mp for the job.

 

[Firestreak]

I am full of shit, it's been a few days >.<
And I have to thank you for all the warm words, dumbass, retard and whatnot.
What is it they say, where intelligence ends the insults begin?
Oh, and I'd be grateful if you could show me where I changed my arguement, cuz if I did I would like to apologize and set it right.


PS: I'm far from the best DD in my linkshell, well, maybe not far but still.
Not close enough to try and say I am anyway.
And I didn't boast about doing more dmg than your sorry ass.
It's different to open your arguement with saying "piss off little boy, I have been lv 75 longer than any NA (In my world)."
Than replying to "stop leeching off blms" with "I do more dmg than blm on sky gods so fuck you mr. stop leeching off the war".

Or is it not?



Or wait, dont reply, I've spent enough time on this pointless discussion.
You think you are right, I think I am right and I very much doubt any of us will end up saying "oh, you were right" after 13 pages of horse shit.

So have a wonderful life, and I hope my fortune keeps smiling on me, keeping you away from me

Cheers,

"Ya, the parsers beg to differ.
Every god I've killed, except 1, I did most dmg of everyone.
Oh, and that time I failed, a sam scored #1 and I was #2.
A blm was found first on #4... However, I dont do gods with the almighty Firestreak, which would explain alot."

I don't know about you, but that seems to me like someone claiming to be the best DD, and it seems like yet another contradiction from you. And no I didn't say, piss off I've been 75 longer than any other NA. I said I was the 2nd(or 4th) BLM. (All the others of whom have quit, btw.)

I never said I was better, or claimed to be the best. I said I was experienced. You came in here, read my statement that I pull hate often and proceeded to enter the conversation by calling me retarded, even though I was talking about merits. The fact is over 2 years of being a 75 BLM has a very big affect on my strategy as BLM.

2 years ago: http://www.qcdn.org/showthread.php?t=798

Back then I was somewhat fresh from actually leveling BLM 1-75.

What many non-BLM don't realize about BLM is how much their job changes from getting 75 to getting merits. Back then if you asked me, I'd have said don't pull hate because it makes it harder for melee to get TP. Back then there were no cannons, no sushi, no bards(the job existed, just weren't any) and if I pulled hate it was because the battle was taking so so long I got frustered. 3k/hour was considered good exp.

But things have changed, and BLM changes one you start capping elemental magic merits, capping potency merits. Every little thing you do pulls hate. I've tried focusing on level 3 spells even to see if I could DoT more by spamming the weak spells. I get more off but still wind up pulling hate trying to keep up with regular melees.

Why it's relevant that I was a long-term BLM is that you want to call out my strategy when I've scrutinzed it myself under a giant microscope trying to find exactly what gives me the best exp for YEARS. You don't even merit with BLM, what the fuck do you know about what we can do there? You're too juiced on fast expansion area exp, and that's your right but don't talk like you have any authority on the subject thusly.

i highly doubt you get hate off 1 blizzard4 unless you cast it in the first 5 seconds of the fight.

and if hate is such a big issue, maybe max your -enmity merits?

I can't merit -enmity because I play paladin and ninja too.

But believe me, I know when I'm going to pull hate and I always have all my defense buffs up and am ready to finish the mob off.

 

[Celvantes]

If PLD got voke, I would sub.... MNK!

A lot of PLD hate comes from being able to cure yourself and to do that, you need to take some damage. /NIN is cool, but imo, the stats you get from /MNK would be a lot better... +HP and +VIT mainly.

Furthermore, the job abilities of MNK just make me drool:

Boost - couldn't replace provoke, but in addition to 'voke this would be amazing. With all my enmity, I'd be a hate machine.
Dodge - a little more evasion certainly can't hurt.
Focus - again, a little more accuracy can't hurt... especially when I usually have the accuracy of a blinded Elvaan DRK. =P
Chakra - Can you imagine the amount I'd recover in HP with the high levels of VIT I carry? Cure IV without using MP not to mention the removal of blind and poison.
Martial Arts - useless.
Subtle Blow I - Every little bit helps... especially with a Joyeuse.
Counter - If it worked when MNK is subbed (and using a weapon) this would be awesome for PLD.
HP Max Up II - Gogo HNM tanking.
Martial Arts II - useless.

 

[Firestreak]

Forgot about boost, certainly would help boost hate up to the next level.