WTB: Screenshot from Cokken

[versiontwo]

i'm only drawing parallels between your post and another.
if you're too retarded to figure that out, god help you.

Thread Derailing/Hijacking

Basically derailing or hijacking occurs when a user makes a post to a thread that does not relate to the subject the original poster is discussing. Examples of this would be someone talking about how a certain guild screwed them out of an item, and you adding a post saying that this guild does indeed suck because they wiped on a certain mob the night before. Both claims may be true, but they do not relate.

Feel free to express your views by making a new thread, with a descriptive subject line, and people will love you for it.

Often you will find yourself in a situation where the issue that was brought to the Flameboard has been resolved within the thread, but you would like to keep discussing a general principle that lead to the situation, or the resolution of the situation. Those kind of posts are in my personal opinion some of the most valuable ones as everyone has cooled down enough to make reasonable arguments - in a new thread! Maybe not even a Flameboard thread.

You see, once again you are asked to apply common sense, with very little guidance as to what is acceptable and what is not.

read the rules before posting... not good for your rep...

 

[yanzi]

read the rules before posting... not good for your rep...

do i hear an echo in here?
:nono:

 

[Pelori]

Unfortunently I came into this conversation a bit to late, so here is all I am going to say.

Two wrongs, DO NOT make a right, however three rights do make a left.

 

[Sandria]

*rubs temples*

I was just reading over the thread of the stolen Ulli before reading this one. Many of the same people who are giving the thumbs up on the theft of the cape were clearly upset about the theft of a stone.

Stealing is stealing regardless to whom the crime has been done to.

Murder is murder regardless if you kill the one who slaughtered your family.

Right and wrong is in the eye of the beholder.

But, then you take into acount that this is a video game.

Drop the cape? I'd honestly be impressed if someone could show that much conviction for their beliefs. It'd be worth some form of respect.

So you got something you did not deserve, kudos? Admittingly, your heist is deservant of praise amongst theives. Do I think you'd steal from a "regular player"? Doubtful. However does it mean that given a motive you would? And that is where one would have a question of character.

On a side note: Let this be a reminder to everyone to be more observant.

 

[Shaidalyn]

I have to agree with Sandria.. yeah, coming into this late but.. it's still sick.
You are not SE, you do not work for SE, you are not affiliated with SE so you have no right to take any actions whatsoever.
Vigilantism is one HELL of a serious crime IRL. Whether the GM's do their job or not, too bad. If you REALLY don't like it, quit.
Killing a murderer doesn't make you a hero, it makes YOU a murderer. And in this, stealing from a GS, still makes you a good for nothing scumbag of a thief. ^.^
Shoulda just kept that shit to yourself and enjoyed it, now, while you got some ass kissing morons.. you lost a lot of credit to a lot of people.

 

[Isomiau]

If a kris is traded for an anmity cape in the woods, and nobody is around to post under good times...does it make a flame?

 

[Mokk]

If one is not in favor of RMT, then one could not possibly be in favor of taking gil and giving it to players. In both cases the receiving player didn't put in hard work to be deserving of the gil.

Or did I get the whole anti-rmt argument wrong?

So it's not possible to be charitable to actual players while not condoning the action of sellers? I don't get it, nothing says everyone has to bust ass for what they get, i'm not for RMT but i know at least 5 people who post to this board who can attest to my generousity on the fly... i don't get how you could go that far.

I can only speak for myself but i'm all for players advancing themselves .. I can't consider a RMT worker a player simply for the fact that they are being paid to sit and from punch in to punch out violate the rules of the game and exploit it to make a "living".

And braydon's right, the sellers didn't ruin the market .. they play the tune and you dumbasses just keep plodding along keeping the tempo up instead of doing something about it. If you want to bitch about inflation your only options are to undercut ... but most of your bitch about both so there's not much point in going there now is there?

I don't get the whole "those poor sellers" attitude ... aren't most of you the same people who did nothing but whine and piss and moan for the past two/thee years about all the bullshit they've done to you, friends, friends of friends, LSs, etc? But now you want to be a fucking philanthropist?

Quetzy used to have a sack, wtf happened?

 

[Countchocula]

here's my point:

some guy, thru deceptive means, obtained a 40mil item thru actions that hardly warrant such rewards. he then goes onto goodtimes and a good many of the board population haralds his action like it was some great benefit to the community and a blow against RMT. some even likened him to robin hood.

1) what he did wasn't a blow against RMT...the item is still in the economy. most likely, if that GS is still employed, will have to work twice as hard to make up for the gil that was taken from him. whether this be from overtime to camp an extra item or to NPC little sh*t until his loss is made up. in effect, the actions of this "hero" could very well lead to a little more gil injected into the economy.

2) he's not a robin hood. robin hood is about stealing from the rich and corrupt to redistribute wealth to help the poor. robin hood didn't keep the money...the guy that stole from the GS did. the deceit and thievery was all for personal gain, hardly something worth giving applause to...even if it was to a crappy GS.


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[Mokk]

Comparing this to real life crimes only makes the person doing it look absolutely depraved of an outside life; those of you who have should honestly take a long hard look out a window.

OMGZ YOU STOLE..... a couple bits of information. I hope you detractors are turning yourself in to the RIAA as i type.

Let's not forget this wasen't an outright theft, the seller got something in return .. it was just crap. This was a con, a scam, a swindling, but theft is a bit much.. it's not like he yanked the fucker off his account or anything.

The seller slipped up and got screwed .. no more sad than anyone else doing the same thing.

Moral of the story: pay some goddamn attention to wtf you're doing.

 

[Mokk]

here's my point:

some guy, thru deceptive means, obtained a 40mil item thru actions that hardly warrant such rewards. he then goes onto goodtimes and a good many of the board population haralds his action like it was some great benefit to the community and a blow against RMT. some even likened him to robin hood.

1) what he did wasn't a blow against RMT...the item is still in the economy. most likely, if that GS is still employed, will have to work twice as hard to make up for the gil that was taken from him. whether this be from overtime to camp an extra item or to NPC little sh*t until his loss is made up. in effect, the actions of this "hero" could very well lead to a little more gil injected into the economy.

2) he's not a robin hood. robin hood is about stealing from the rich and corrupt to redistribute wealth to help the poor. robin hood didn't keep the money...the guy that stole from the GS did. the deceit and thievery was all for personal gain, hardly something worth giving applause to...even if it was to a crappy GS.

I'm sure robin hood didn't eat, need a place to stay, need to buy clothes, etc either ... even the occasional priest dips into the donation plate from time to time...

What he did was a symbolic victory against RMT, something to make people who feel like he does grin for a minute, wether it dents RMT as a whole is irrelevant.

What i can't get over is how everyone's panties are all bunched up over this poor gilseller, anyone losing sleep over that assbag needs to go bathe with the toaster.

 

[ForteTeppo]

People say it was "wrong" of him to "steal". SE have total control over what happens. The fact is, SE doesnt do shit. They ignore everything we say so as long as we keep sending 15 bucks a month to them.

Why? Why do people defend the gil sellers. Why are they bring up irl situations or say if they were real other players. Here's a situation for you guys. If someone kills someone else, wouldnt they get a Death sentance? Isnt "killing" wrong? Or does the murder deserves what he gets?

RMT fucks us over time and time again, Everyone bitches how they screw us, mpk us and make our "game" a living hell. One guy tries to get them back and success. Now he's the bad guy?

Stealing is wrong, but not to people that truely deserve it.

 

[Countchocula]

*rubs temples*

I was just reading over the thread of the stolen Ulli before reading this one. Many of the same people who are giving the thumbs up on the theft of the cape were clearly upset about the theft of a stone.

lol...you saw that too? it really is a chuckle.


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[Mokk]

Anyone wanna guess what SE woulda told the seller or any random joe fuck off who this happened to?

That's right kids; "be more careful with your trade window, it was there for you to see, this was a legitimate trade. The issue must be resolved between players. Thank you for your GM call is there anything else i can assist you with?"

Happens every day.

 

[Sculli]

The sole purpose of a game is to play, not work, work is for designers and coders and crap.

Actually, the purpose of the game is different for everyone, and most people automatically assume that another player is in the game for a specific purpose, an assumption derived from the actions of that player. If you want to argue purpose, then the purpose of the game is to make SE profit, they could not possibly care less what you do while in game for the most part (excluding harrasment and such).

Granted in it's roots, Seveath's actions are indeed rooted in the concepts of a Confidence Man's actions.

I don't think this is true. Confidence Men got the job done through planning, elaborate schemes, skill, creativity and talent. Any monkey can keep switching items till the other party clicks on the wrong one.

So it's not possible to be charitable to actual players while not condoning the action of sellers? I don't get it, nothing says everyone has to bust ass for what they get...

I am too lazy to search, but one of the main arguments against RMT made on this board is that people who buy currency do not earn it in game, thus it is wrong from them to just get it for nothing. Thus my argument that those who would take all the gil from GS and give it to players can either not do that, or shouldn't have a problem with the "gil buyers don't earn their gil" part.

The right thing to do would be to take all the gil from gil sellers and drop it.

Elsewhere we were talking about values and virtues on this board.
The guy who got the cape walked away with 40M (cash or item value), walked over the virtue of Justice, lowered his values, and is now on the RMT triade shitlist.

If I were the little Chinese who got scammed, I would get my billion brothers to make the scammer's life hell. That may just happen, or it may not, but is it worth risking a character that took years to build? To me it wouldn't be, but obviously to some it is. I guess that is what happens when you get bored with a game.

 

[ForteTeppo]

*rubs temples*

I was just reading over the thread of the stolen Ulli before reading this one. Many of the same people who are giving the thumbs up on the theft of the cape were clearly upset about the theft of a stone.
.

Here's the thing. Those are "REAL" players, not RTM. Those guys do not sell gil to pay rent. If they were RTM, Im very sure people would steal from them and others would cheer. You do know why RTM dont really live in sky? It's full of Rare/ex armor that cant be sold for gil.

At one time Gil sellers did go up there, but I rarely see them up there now. If they still do, It's very low profile.

 

[Countchocula]

I'm sure robin hood didn't eat, need a place to stay, need to buy clothes, etc either ... even the occasional priest dips into the donation plate from time to time...

What he did was a symbolic victory against RMT, something to make people who feel like he does grin for a minute, wether it dents RMT as a whole is irrelevant.

What i can't get over is how everyone's panties are all bunched up over this poor gilseller, anyone losing sleep over that assbag needs to go bathe with the toaster.

i'm sure robin hood needed to spend alittle of that money for basic necessities. this guy didn't steal and keep a basic item...it was a multi-mil gil item to be elite.

now, don't get me wrong. i'm not defending gilsellers. they are a plague and shouldn't be in the game. however, you're missing my point. my point is simply to say that this thief is no hero. he stole an item so he can have the most "leet" gear...it just so happens he stole from someone that a good portion of the boards doesn't like.


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[Sandria]

I have to agree with Sandria.. yeah, coming into this late but.. it's still sick.
You are not SE, you do not work for SE, you are not affiliated with SE so you have no right to take any actions whatsoever.
Vigilantism is one HELL of a serious crime IRL. Whether the GM's do their job or not, too bad. If you REALLY don't like it, quit.
Killing a murderer doesn't make you a hero, it makes YOU a murderer. And in this, stealing from a GS, still makes you a good for nothing scumbag of a thief. ^.^
Shoulda just kept that shit to yourself and enjoyed it, now, while you got some ass kissing morons.. you lost a lot of credit to a lot of people.

To a degree. Let us say if I had a child (..or in the future have a child) and someone brutally murdered and/or raped my child-- and someone played god and took this person's life: It would not give my child back-- but it would give me a moment of peace.... especially if the law stood idle.

The person would still be a murderer. There is no way to doubt this. Would the person be considered a hero to me? It is a question of morals and a willingness to issue forgiveness. However, you must also still take into account that this is a video game and that I don't actually have a child.

 

[ForteTeppo]

<,< Well to make this into a robin hood situation, do u think he should sell the cape, make a Thread for the first 40 people that post get 500k? =P That be uber awsome~

 

[Mokk]

A game is an (often, but not always recreational) activity involving one or more players. This can be defined by either a goal that the players try to reach, or some set of rules that determines what the players can or can not do. Games are played primarily for entertainment or enjoyment, but may also serve as exercise or in an educational, simulational or psychological role.

Now; unless you want to liken sellers to professional atheletes, addicts, exercise freaks (how this works i know not), or just out for the experience .. which isn't the case as they do get paid and that is the alterior motive there is no room for interpretation.

A game is for playing, period. If your job is to play a game chances are the proprioters of that game like you being there, obviously this isn't the case.

On another note how can you argue morals on the internet? If i make the filesharing arguement one more time my head will explode .. the guy took the opportuniy, right or wrong there it is. I'm sure he doesn't cross the street to kick puppies irl.

for those of you who wanna take the moral high ground spend some time at a soup kitchen, gaming is dog eat dog.

 

[Mokk]

my point is simply to say that this thief is no hero. he stole an item so he can have the most "leet" gear...

If some people, and i wouldn't go as far as to call him a hero myself, weren't of the opinion he was a hero for doing this thing .. no matter how insignificant a gesture it is in the long run .. do you think we'd have this big a stink about it?

What i read was that he targeted a seller and did it just to see if he could and the seller came out tits up on the deal... Not as a direct result of "Now i'll have more shinys" now i mean .. that sounds like a stupid thing to say because obviously that's going to be the outcome but i can't honestly say from what i've read that it was thought through all that far. Obviously coming to the board with it was a roulette roll he was apperantly unprepared for..

it just so happens he stole from someone that a good portion of the boards doesn't like.

Of course it's a big deal because most people (alot less than i thought, apperantly) don't like the sellers, like i said it's a symbolic thing. /shrug