WTB: Screenshot from Cokken

heh you gotta be smart about it if you wanna MPK at sozu. Most people do it with the Bronze Marberry but if you really wanna fuck someone you only have to pop the yallery brown. Ive seen people killed by both... they both work. I spent a few days in there trying to get my offering to ugg. for carby mitts which infact dowzer and squall helped me do. Thanks ^^
 
Valoran said:
3. I do not believe it is wrong to take what has been earned wrongly.

3a. This rule is not meant to be taken beyond an initial instance. That is, person X earns item I through illegal or immoral means (in-game or IRL); person Y gets it away from them. Person Z, under my consideration, would NOT be justified in then taking it from person Y.
Valoran, really, this makes no sense at all. If Y steals from X, then the act of stealing (or taking as you call it) is in fact illegal, which would then allow Z to "take" the item from Y, regardless of rule 3a, as Z may not even have knowledge of X getting the item illegally.

Anyway, RMT is not against the law, thus not illegal. Since morals vary, it will be a tough case to make.
 
Damn now when i see a gil seller i'd keep my eyes down instead of high up
 
If you are saying stealing from a gil seller is right that means stealing from gil buyers is right too correct? and now trust me there are a million ways you can accuse someone of buying gil and then steal from him
 
Don't worry WSM, you don't have anything anyone would want. No one would go through the trouble of making up an accusation.
 
Sculli said:
Valoran, really, this makes no sense at all. If Y steals from X, then the act of stealing (or taking as you call it) is in fact illegal, which would then allow Z to "take" the item from Y, regardless of rule 3a, as Z may not even have knowledge of X getting the item illegally.

Anyway, RMT is not against the law, thus not illegal. Since morals vary, it will be a tough case to make.

RMT isn't against the law, but it violates the terms of service, and violation of publicised rules on a game that you pay for, is indeed against the law.
 
Sculli said:
Valoran, really, this makes no sense at all. If Y steals from X, then the act of stealing (or taking as you call it) is in fact illegal, which would then allow Z to "take" the item from Y, regardless of rule 3a, as Z may not even have knowledge of X getting the item illegally.

Anyway, RMT is not against the law, thus not illegal. Since morals vary, it will be a tough case to make.

Better check my quote again for the word steal. If the original person got the item through an illegal/immoral means, then recovering it into the pool of upright gamers, even through shady dealings, is not immoral.

Contract law covers ToS, ergo RMT is agaisnt the law. If it was not initially stated explicitly, SE has certainly made clear that it is not among their allowed behaviors since then, which they definitely have provision for in the gaming contract.

3a only addresses the idea that one might try to claim that if Y steals it from X and that's ok because X stole it originally, then Z can steal from Y under the same principle, on infinitum. 3a states that this is not how the principle is being asserted.
 
Tymon said:
RMT isn't against the law, but it violates the terms of service, and violation of publicised rules on a game that you pay for, is indeed against the law.

Tymon ftw \('-'\)
 
Tymon said:
RMT isn't against the law, but it violates the terms of service, and violation of publicised rules on a game that you pay for, is indeed against the law.

No it isn't. If it is against the ToS and that company provides a solution to the problem then the law has no say over what a person does in game. That is the reason that you won't see SE or Mythic or SOE or any other company win a lawsuit against RMT. Well maybe SOE because they actually support RMT now.
 
Shaunessy said:
No it isn't. If it is against the ToS and that company provides a solution to the problem then the law has no say over what a person does in game. That is the reason that you won't see SE or Mythic or SOE or any other company win a lawsuit against RMT. Well maybe SOE because they actually support RMT now.


It is against US contract law, but US contract law is not so effective for a Japanese company dealing with primarily Chinese in this issue.

Again, it is against the law, so he is technically right.
 
Shaunessy said:
Then why haven't IGE and other online traders been shut down? They operate in the US.

For that matter, why haven't all criminals been captured and dealt with. Sometimes it's just not a big enough deal. I hae asked myself the same question though, and I think it's because they just don't care enough. Not caring doesn't suddenly make it not illegal though.
 
Shaunessy said:
No it isn't. If it is against the ToS and that company provides a solution to the problem then the law has no say over what a person does in game. That is the reason that you won't see SE or Mythic or SOE or any other company win a lawsuit against RMT. Well maybe SOE because they actually support RMT now.

yes.. it is. Read the ToS again and SE SPECIFICALLY SAYS that trading in game items and gil and any other product of the game for real money value is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. They are doing what the ToS says not to. It is as Tymon said it is. And it's not just US law but an international law I believe. One set by the companies around the world and companies are supposed to follow. Atleast, I'm pretty sure I remember learning something about that in a class of mine.
 
Then tell me why, if it is illegal, is it a $200 million a year, with estimates in the 1 billion, industry? If it is illegal why didn't SOE, Mythic, SE, Blizzard and all the other big MMO companies jump on RMT with legal reprocussions? If it is illegal why did SOE start their own RMT buisness, instead of prosecuting offenders on their own servers? It say's it is prohibited and the company declares the reprocussions for those actions. You will NEVER see one person brought up on legal charges over RMT.
 
*shrugs* I don't know about the other companies and their policies against RMT but I do know SE is against it and supposed to be against the ToS. Perhaps SE doesn't do anything cause they make money from the RMT people and just don't care to do anything about it cause they'd lose money. Only SE can truly answer your question.
 
Shaunessy said:
Then tell me why, if it is illegal, is it a $200 million a year, with estimates in the 1 billion, industry? If it is illegal why didn't SOE, Mythic, SE, Blizzard and all the other big MMO companies jump on RMT with legal reprocussions? If it is illegal why did SOE start their own RMT buisness, instead of prosecuting offenders on their own servers? It say's it is prohibited and the company declares the reprocussions for those actions. You will NEVER see one person brought up on legal charges over RMT.

Taking control of it allows just that: control. Same as when people advocate legalizing Marijuana (which, after all, is less harmful than tobacco).

As for WHY companies haven't dealt more harshly with it, the motivation which has often been suggested is pure capitalism.

That is, SE is not going to shut down thousands of accounts that pay $12+ per month unless there is a major reason to do so. Although RMT is against their ToS, they can choose not to exercise their rights.

Many have suggested that the RMT countermeasures we recently had were an effort to lower inflation before the Xbox 360 release . . . new players will be shocked by the time required to get anything done and simply leave (whereas players who have stayed on long have suffered it slowly, like a frog being slow-boiled alive).

Further evidence that SE is trying to lower inflation are the new GP items. Not only does GP lower supply of some items, but the new items allow people to craft without using as many crystals. Thus, we should expect a relative supply increase and a relative demand decrease.

-----------------------

All of that can be considered an aside, though. The real fact is, RMT is against ToS. It is against the ToS for a reason, and that reason is that it hurts the casual and even the harcore but non-gilbuying player.

So the gilsellers lost maybe 40 million. Anyone remember that the RMT countermeasures removed 300 billion gil (10 billion average /server)? 40 million is nothing to them. The gilsellers make that back within a day or two and oh well. Meanwhile they're running characters on 29 other servers.

SE and the GM's do not do enough to stop gilsellers. Cokken landed a good hit. /cheer and get back to your lives.

What's all the fuss about? Boo gilsellers.

Someone who thinks that Cokken did something wrong, please make an argument that 1) gilsellers should be in our game and 2) gilsellers don't change the game environment.
 
There was a post in General Discussions where WOW sue'd RMTs for selling "Gold" for real money. Sadly the judge ruled in RMT's favor because of some BS like, it wasnt actually selling. God I hate RMT's with a passion. - .-"
 
Shaunessy said:
Then tell me why, if it is illegal, is it a $200 million a year, with estimates in the 1 billion, industry? If it is illegal why didn't SOE, Mythic, SE, Blizzard and all the other big MMO companies jump on RMT with legal reprocussions?

You tell me why Drugs are a million dollar industry in the real world and you'll have your answers.
 
ok no lies if IGE and all over places you could buy gil from FFXI would half like half the players that it has now cause all these fagget ass people that depend on buying gil to play this game i think thats the reason why SE dont really crack down HARD on these people idk about other companys, but i do gotta admit i did buy WoW gold like a few months ago but i only because my friend was buying a shit load so i just gave him 10$ and got like 100g outa it lol idk what im talking about just rambling now blbalblalbl

[Edited for racist references. -Sculli]
 
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