WTF No more subjobs???

[Excim]

Was reading Vang's post and got to the part about so and so's job owes everything to so and so's job... blah blah...

Got to thinking... how odd would this game be if there were no sub jobs?

I know a Paladin would be all but useless! Maybe set to the side as a gimp DD with a greatsword, and backup healer... damn that would suck.

But that's an obvious one... my question is, doesn't every job owe everything to it's subjob?

 

[Skaw]

Was reading Vang's post and got to the part about so and so's job owes everything to so and so's job... blah blah...

Got to thinking... how odd would this game be if there were no sub jobs?

I know a Paladin would be all but useless! Maybe set to the side as a gimp DD with a greatsword, and backup healer... damn that would suck.

But that's an obvious one... my question is, doesn't every job owe everything to it's subjob?

Not really. The only Jobs that suffer would be 2 of the 3 tank jobs. And Summoner I guess. But the again, what summoner wouldn't want to break away from the healer position?

 

[Uzor]

BLM RDM WHM BRD WAR SAM DRG DRK RNG THF SMN BST MNK could still do their jobs. NIN is somewhat of a 50/50, in that they couldn't tank, but they could act as a DD spamming ninjutsu and shurikens instead.

PLD gets the short-end of the stick

 

[Veteran]

I'd like to see a BST get more than 250xp/hr without a SJ.

 

[Skaw]

I'd like to see a BST get more than 250xp/hr without a SJ.

Considering I could about 1k/hr solo as MNK in Ru'Aun, I'd say it's more than possible. An extremely good BST doesn't need the /whm. It just helps incase things get out of hand.

 

[Angof]

PLDs could still tank...they would just lose the most common way to build hate(Provoke). I mean even without subbing warrior they can still flash, sentinal, ect. Lacking a WAR sub would certainly make it harder but it isnt impossible. Hell DDs pull hate off the tank when the tank provokes sometimes, so why can't a tank generate hate without it?

Subjobs are amazingly usful and the full potential of a job is reached through a subjobs abilitys you could say, but that doesn't mean any of the jobs can't do their jobs without them. In fact if subjobs didn't exist you have to think that SE would probally put abilitys into each job to do what they were "designed" to do. The subjobs are just there for flexability so that if you want you can play MNK/WAR, PLD/DRK, or any other job combo you want and thus redifine your role and/or how you fill it. Without subjobs every jobs would have a specific preset purpose and it would be hard to escape that boundry. That or we'd be setting skills to work to become a certain kind of our job(like a PLD can be DD or tank based on what skills he chooses as he levels).

 

[Angof]

Thing posted twice

 

[Rones]

Hell DDs pull hate off the tank when the tank provokes sometimes, so why can't a tank generate hate without it?

Uhm because the tank isn't dealing near the dmg a DD does? Just a first of many reasons.

 

[dragoonnerzul]

NIN is somewhat of a 50/50, in that they couldn't tank, but they could act as a DD spamming ninjutsu and shurikens instead.

if i remember correctly, SE said nin was never supposed to be a tank job in the first place. maybe that's what NIN really are...DDs :lol:

 

[Phoku]

If there were no subjobs i would not have any trouble getting a party with THF ^_^ NIN or PLD (if it was ever used as a tank) would be dependent on thfs 100%

 

[Blackchaoshero]

lets just face it... blms subjob does.... what? 50 hp and mp? divine seal? i'd still be 85% functional without it.... i'd sure as hell miss stoneskin and blink though...

 

[Nibble]

..

..sometimes as pld i forget to voke as often as i should.. and i never lose hate so long as there is a rdm in PT.. provoke is an "obvious" way to hold hate.. of course.. but its actually the smaller portion of holding hate, for a PLD.. IMO its the pld's spells (eg: flash and self cures) that hold hate.. if im wrong on this.. well.. my pld has gotten past lv50 with holding hate mainly from cures (and i pride myself in never losing hate)............

~nib

 

[Eulore]

Re: ..

my pld has gotten past lv50 with holding hate mainly from cures (and i pride myself in never losing hate)............

~nib

level 65ish+ it gets a little harder to hold hate, and you'll learn to hate monks at level 71 8)

PLDs can still hold hate even if they don't have war sub... I forgot to change my sub from thf16 one time and held hate the first battle just fine with flash, cures, and JAs. I warped and changed to warrior sub after that of course >.>;

It's hard to never lose hate anymore, because I don't have enough time to rest my MP between pulls, and Weaponskills just do too much damage lol... I try though :O!

 

[Lavi]

PLDs could still tank...they would just lose the most common way to build hate(Provoke). I mean even without subbing warrior they can still flash, sentinal, ect. Lacking a WAR sub would certainly make it harder but it isnt impossible. Hell DDs pull hate off the tank when the tank provokes sometimes, so why can't a tank generate hate without it?

Subjobs are amazingly usful and the full potential of a job is reached through a subjobs abilitys you could say, but that doesn't mean any of the jobs can't do their jobs without them. In fact if subjobs didn't exist you have to think that SE would probally put abilitys into each job to do what they were "designed" to do. The subjobs are just there for flexability so that if you want you can play MNK/WAR, PLD/DRK, or any other job combo you want and thus redifine your role and/or how you fill it. Without subjobs every jobs would have a specific preset purpose and it would be hard to escape that boundry. That or we'd be setting skills to work to become a certain kind of our job(like a PLD can be DD or tank based on what skills he chooses as he levels).

PLD's limited job abilities at low level make it a very poor tank. Provoke is basically the only thing a low level PLD has to keep hate. At level 15, they get shield bash which is the best tool until sentinel at 30 to generate hate and then flash at 37. Curing does generate hate for a PLD but at low levels without +enmity gear, the WHM would gain as much hate per cure and more hate than the PLD since they do a bulk of the curing and WHM also gains Cure II earlier than a PLD. Unless SE did some hate modifications, it would be very difficult to tank without a subjob with the current setup. At end levels a PLD can tank very easily without a WAR sub(PLDs tank using /NIN on some HNM); however, it requires people to use constraint when dealing damage.

Other jobs are not as impacted as highly as PLD except maybe ninja. I think a ninja could still tank just not until later levels when they get elemental spells(Ichi at 15 and Ni at 40). They will have to spam shurikens(which actually do a lot of damage but do to the limited supply and cost, most people do not use frequently) and ninjitsu spells to hold hate much like a ranger could spam arrows to pull hate off a tank. Summoner would become strictly a DD job. WAR would probably replace PLDs as tanks until higher levels to become a purely DD job.

 

[Eulore]

No subjobs would screw up a lot of drks that make light. No SA and Spinning Slash does crap damage