WTF?

A

Anderithe

Artifact Armor
Adventurer
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
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Location
Iowa, United States
How many time since I hit forty has this happened:

- I don't have Refresh.
- I don't have Erase.
- I don't have Dispell.
- No pies/drinks/nadda.
- No Oils/Powder.
- Won't even give me an initial Sneak.

I mean c'mon! I hear mages on here bitching in dead horse topics about how melee should bring silent oils to a party. Congratulations, it's fully expected from us now, and the prices on the AH are SOARING!!!

I don't think I've had ONE party through 40-50 where a mage has had pie/drinks, and all their spells. Let alone ONE mage with both a Seer's and a Barons piece for mp rest+.

I just had a party invite today from a fifty-one white mage with no tele-vaz and no erase. Rank four to boot.

Now I can expect to hear the same things from the mages on this as I normally do:

- We can't sell our scrolls when we're done with them.
- Melee are much worse.

Frankly I haven't seen either of these. How much are whm scrolls up to level fifty? Hmmm? I'd like an exact amount. Don't give me teleport costs either. I've quested a few of those for a whm in our ls just for the fame. You don't have to buy those!

I bet those don't cost you the same as my emp pin and leaping boots, which I expected of myself and was expected to have at this point. Which, for the record, aren't going to be getting resold for a VERY long time if ever. I can resell them? Yeah, sure I can.

Don't bring staves and ect into this arguement either, because I am at no point griping about 51+.

As for melee? It's been pretty good. Everyone has at least used kabobs, most have been using sushi. Equipment has been par or higher at the bare minimum. With every level the melee have been increasingly sata saavy, and aside the large amount of shitty pld 40-50 has been smooth thanks to the MELEE.

Mages have been slacking off. HARD! I'm starting to wonder if everyone worth a shit as a mage leveled straight to 75 and can no longer be found.

I've been having such trouble lately if for no other reason all the good mages are now 60+ and I got nothing but the shit.

What's this rant about? Mages are the new melee of this game it seems. Yay!

*Prepares to be flamed to high hell for saying bad things about mages.*
 
There are people who are poor and just wont have things when they should.

I guess we are all just so much better than them huh, cause we have our gear when we level.

Sure, I as well have my gear bought for a good 5-10 levels ahead of time. But when someone else doesnt....I dont mind. I realize there are people who are new to the game and not ubercool1337 like tards who start threads like these.
 
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Erase is damn expensive, and if they're on their first job, that's hard to come by at 32. I don't know the exact value, but it was over 500k over a month ago. Dispel and refresh are cheap in comparison. The teleport spells can be damn hard to get, I sti'll haven't gotten my marble for Tel-Yhoat, so I had to buy mine, and Fei-Yin isn't a picnic to go wandering around in at 50.

I can't really comment on if mages are gimping on spells/gear at your level. Although, not all of the spells are useful and can be easily skipped to save money for the important spells. If they won't give you an initial sneak, that's rude, but it's not that big a deal.

You might be right that all of the good mages are the one's leveling.
 
I'll admit erase isn't cheap, but by god a whm should have it by the time they hit forty. As I said, my boots alone cost more then that stupid scroll, and I'm not exactly going to resell them.

Additionally, that's not even counting the lack of food/equipment. Yeah, I work my ass off on my first job so I have really nice gear/food, but I'm not expecting the moon from the mages lately.
 
Anderithe said:
I'll admit erase isn't cheap, but by god a whm should have it by the time they hit forty. As I said, my boots alone cost more then that stupid scroll, and I'm not exactly going to resell them.

Additionally, that's not even counting the lack of food/equipment. Yeah, I work my ass off on my first job so I have really nice gear/food, but I'm not expecting the moon from the mages lately.
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Yeah, but speaking as a whm, I couldn't farm for shit at that level. I was making maybe 15k an hour, but stuff was a little cheaper then.

The only real money making at that level would be to quest the teleport scrolls and sell them, but wait, whm can't do that.
 
He kinda does have a point...i mean i'm a WHM and i dont think i got Erase until my mid 50's. Although in the defence of WHM...erase is pretty pointless in most cases...the only thing i have found truely worth removing is Spiders slow on NIN tank (because Haste will not overwrite it) and Bio III (and Dia III if it exists...haven't come across it yet) apart from that i kinda just use DS + Erase because it kinda looks cool....then mob will just use AoE enfeeb...and i'm right back where i started.

Although he is correct...Melee are expected to have food and passable gear...i think mages should too...

Also, Dispel as you all know it pretty critical in most part situations and as far as i am aware it is about 75k. i think about 65 in rabao. This is hardly a HUGE amount to farm...and rdm do not even have the being crap at farming excuse...

WHM tele scrolls are not that hard to quest...i had all bar Vhalz (sp?) at lvl 40 and i had Vhalz by 50. it can be hard without some higher level help...but it is doable solo. also you could just buy them and quest it later then sell the scroll to get your cash back (with current inflation you would probably make a profit).
 
yeah, I was going to say that erase wasn't that useful, but I didn't want a bunch of melees responding with how much they needed it against crabs. I'm with rinoah, the only times I really use erase are to get rid of something on the tank, or something really nasty like bio 3. I'd use it when I fight spiders, but I was past all the spiders when they added divine veil.
 
Outside of the erase part he does have a very valid point. Ive never seen anything as bad as a rdm without refresh before or without food but i have been walking around and there is an almost lv 60 taru blm STILL wearing his windurstian ring from level one. I'm also sure he's not just wearing it for show cause his other ring he wears give a grand total of 2int extra to himself.
 
Yeah, nothing takes the joy out of 700+ Viper Bite on a bat, followed by a 450+ Distortion, and then the BLM get's resisted to high hell on the burst for 150-ish damage when I was expecting 300+.

That's when I check their gear and fine a grand total of -1 MP!!! :shock:
 
A few comments...

RDM without Refresh (after level 41 >.> ): Boot him. NOW. There is no excuse to not have this scroll, as it AH's for about 3k. And when my BCNM group gets a Refresh scroll, we usually NPC it as it sells for crap in the AH.

WHM without Erase: Depends on the level, and if it's the WHM's first job. Erase is a dang expensive spell (600k and rising), and WHMs are probably one of the worst farmers in the game. Sure, there's other ways to make money, but that's like saying Warriors can't fish, or Thieves can't go mining. Plus, WHMs can't even tele-taxi until 36.

RDM without Dispel: He's a moron, but unless you need it for the mobs you're fighting he can stay in the party. Give him a lot of grief, though.

Mages without food: No excuse to not use some sort of food (what sort depends on the mage - pies aren't the end-all, be-all food for mages, but they should be using -something-). Drinks I can understand, they're somewhat expensive to constantly chug, and each one takes up an inventory slot. Plus if you've got a RDM with Refresh, there's no point in using drinks as Refresh overwrites drinks.

No oil/powder: Unless magic aggro is a serious problem, there's really no point in bringing with oil/powder if you can cast it on yourself (so SMN and BLM will need items until 50). It's good to be prepared, but not a serious thing to worry about.

No initial sneak: He's just being a jerk, probably... >.>

On a side note: sure, WHM can quest and use the teleport scrolls. But EVERY job can quest them, and sell them if they don't want to use them. That's an extra few hundred k to go towards the next big item for non-WHMs, but for WHMs they get nothing more than the scroll. Plus, Vahzl and, to a lesser extent, Yoat aren't exactly easy for WHMs to solo - Yhoat requires killing lizzies for hours in Yuhtunga (the item's drop rate is probably as rare as - if not rarer than - G1 paper), which is difficult for WHM to do solo, and Vahzl requires opening a chest in Fei'Yin. And the only way to get a key is to kill level 50-something shadows. Plus you then need to find a chest, and since life belts come out of those same chests, Fei'Yin chest hunts might soon be as difficult as Oztroja coffer hunts used to be, for the same reasons.
 
Sorry but i gotta comment about this thread. I'm now a 75 whm and i didnt get Erase until i was lv 68 for a few reasons. A) its not all that important until mobs start using Bio III or Spider's Wed, and B) 300k back then was alot for a somewhat useless scroll, which is now about 700k.

Yes you can quest all of the teleport scrolls and i know you said you have quest a few yourself. But Dem and Holla, which i assume are the ones you quested, are pretty simply. Mea can be a bit confusing and i'd like to see a 40-50 whm farm Vhazl. Yhoat is hard cause the drop rate sucks on those liz's. Took me 7 hours to get that scroll.

If whm or blm are your first jobs making Gil is pretty hard thing to do, its not like melee's who can still hand ep around 50. Mages gotta stick to too weak around 30+.
 
Erase is a complete waste of mp until around level 50, and even then it's not really REQUIRED, though with the addition of Divine Veil into the game it's a big big plus to have. At level 51 I'd much rather my white mage have dark and light staves than Erase.

BTW, your comment about the price of teleport spells "not counting" is hypocritical since you can take your LS to go camp Lizzie and Emperor as well.
 
I take pride in keeping up with my spells. The times when I am behind is due to under estimating how much exp I would get in a party or simply not realizing that I was already due for a spell. i.e Cure V.. I for some reason thought that I got it later, and thus didn't have it for like a half lvl. Erase, in my opinion, is a totally different story. I didn't get it until I got into tele-taxi (the only reasonable way to make gil as a whm). I'm not going to lie - I tele-farmed until I got it. It was important to me to have. I do recall before having erase being in pts where they would make subtle comments of '.. wow.. erase would really be nice right now..' However, when you state to them nicely that you're working to get it they don't mind. Especially if you go to examine them and there gear does not calculate up to the price of that particular spell. ^.^ I had more party invites concerned with if I had haste rather than erase during that time. I use erase so frequently that I have to have it on a macro.

- As far as the sneak/invis debate.. well.. I become so used to melees that bring there own that I dont' really think to cast it unless asked. Generally I do not mind casting it on a melee. There are times that it actually becomes very annoying & dangerous to cast it on a melee. Reason being the delay between the cast as well as the fact it can be difficult keeping up with 3-4 other ppl's wear as well as my own. Some locations are simply too dangerous to risk it. I will never ask a melee to pay for me to cast sneak/invis on him, although a melee will pay an alchemist to craft him the item to do the very same task. Depending on how you look at it.. the person really that is getting screwed in this deal is the mage.. but, that might be a point that could lead to an arguement.

- I am guilty about not using food in a party. Truthfully, most of the mage foods I totally disagree with. Very few times (aside from events) do I ever get the full usage of having my max mp. Pies, I feel, are effective in lower levels when you need to full rest. In higher lvls, however, I have not seen a large diference in the exp or my mp when I have used food. When I do use food, I place a higher focus on mp regening foods than any other + mp cap food. I still use my seer's tunic and now the baron slops at lvl 62 w/dark staff for resting. I lvled cooking for the sake of being able to make my own drinks. Not every mage is going to have this option, nor want to take the time to have this option. - Playing melee is a totally different ball game. You're not going to hit a chain 5 because a whm ate a pie.. I can tell you that already.. I honestly don't care if someone has the best gear in the game - that's secondary. I don't care what anyone says it is absolutely boring to no end to camp an nm for hours on end. Some people love it.. but, I honestly don't. If you have the most elite gear, kudos.. however, don't expect everyone else to. This current trend we have on expecting players to have the most elite gear and uber this and that is what discourages a lot of players. It's almost like high-school all over again and deciding if you'll interact with a person 'cus they're wearing nikes or addidas. People complain about gilsellers and then they complain about ppl that do not have the gil to buy these over priced items.. it's a trade off. *shrugs*

I don't make a point to rant.. it's just been one of those days.
 
Rappa said:
Erase is a complete waste of mp until around level 50, and even then it's not really REQUIRED, though with the addition of Divine Veil into the game it's a big big plus to have. At level 51 I'd much rather my white mage have dark and light staves than Erase.

BTW, your comment about the price of teleport spells "not counting" is hypocritical since you can take your LS to go camp Lizzie and Emperor as well.
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When you get to the ??? for Dem soemone isn't going to claim it, and when you get it you WILL get your scroll. No they don't count.

Scolls quested for a White Mage: Dem, Yhoater
 
This topic also seems to be evolving to when people got their own erase scroll and ect. First of all, I never said get erase at 28. I was complaining about people not having it 40-50.

If I wanted to complain about people at say... 35-39 I'd mention the WHM that can't seem to manage a poisana on the tank. Not about Erase.
 
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