WTF?

Irrelevant. You still have to take your fame up to rank 6 in each nation to get the quests in the first place. You absolutely CANNOT say that something doesn't count as something you have to buy just because it was easy for you to get. That's BS and you know it.
 
Well, I'm not sure what you were expecting. Obviously it's annoying if someone doesn't have a required spell or just flat out sucks.
 
A tiresome cunt like yourself isn't worth flaming.

As for RDMs who don't have Dispel or Refresh, the solution is simple - kick them. They're nothing but dead weight, like the RDM I saw in a Nest party the other night when I was helping a friend get their AF. She wasn't casting anything, just fighting. Why put up with that shit? Why help them level in the name of taking whatever you can get? You're not doing anyone any favors by letting them advance like that.
 
Anderithe said:
I mean c'mon! I hear mages on here bitching in dead horse topics about how melee should bring silent oils to a party. Congratulations, it's fully expected from us now, and the prices on the AH are SOARING!!!
Click to expand...

I will give initial Sneak/Invis, but when were surounded by mobs that aggro its just to dangerous. I have died several times giving someone an invis right in the middle of some goblins, testing my luck cause they keep on shouting "Invisible Please!". Melees should be expected to bring there own powders and oils, but on the flip side Mages should also have them in situations where casting in not an option (ie:places with magic aggro)

Mages should also have food relevent to there level and what they can afford. A pie or a Glace should suffice but expecting them to have juices? Unless they have there Culinary skill leveled they would have to buy form the auction house.
A typical inventory will have maybe 20 open slots (well mine atleast) 20 x ~1.8K for yags = 36K for a mere hour of refresh (20x3mins = 1hour)
Compare the price a mage pays to refresh themselves for 60mins compared to what it costs to sneak/invis for the 10mins it may be required for. You may use 1/4 a stack of each so maybe ~10K?(I'm not sure of the price right now) I think paying 10K just for sneak and invis is a horendous amout of gil but hey thats the way the economy is heading.

When it come to WHM spells mso tof them are pretty cheap except when you come to Erase . . . it is exceptionaly expensive for the level its at. Expecting a Whm to have erase at a low level is like expecting a low level to have an Emp. Pin. All spells including tele-scrolls are a must for whms though, theres a time and a place for them even though they may take a while to farm the gil >.<

I know you didnt want to here about Tele-prices but I have to bring them up :P Like it has been mentioned before WHM's have a very hard time farming mobs that give decent drops. We take a while to kill compared to melees. In the past I have tele-whored myself and I made some fair cash. But then like you said things started to go up in price and an alarming rate and people had to start dishing out more gil for neseccary items.
Melees have a more versitile time farming for items then WHM's. Just to note items that are being farmed have most likely gone up in price since when I first stared, but Tele-prices have not . . . If a WHM is shouting "Teleports 2K" people will just think their greedy but in reality their not.

Earth Crystals used to be 200gil at the most . . . now there ~1K, thats 5x the original price.
Leeping Boots used to be a mere 20K now there ~600K, thats 30x the original.
Emp. Pin used to be 25K now there ~900K, thats 36x the original.
Teleport prices used to be 500gil, now there 500gil, thats well no change >.<

My point is how can we be expected to pay 5x-30x and more for an item? We need to spend 5x-30x the amount of tele-whoreing time that we could have a year ago. Where as Melees have the ablility to farm mobs more easily then WHM's and for that collect items which have risen in price 5x-30x. In short. . .

Whm income Tele-whoreing - no Change, Items needed - 5x-30x price increase
Melee income farming - 5x-30x price increase, Items needed - 5x-30x price increase

Whms have been shafted for our income . . . yea and thats about it ^^ I feel better now :P
 
Neyla said:
A tiresome cunt like yourself isn't worth flaming.

As for RDMs who don't have Dispel or Refresh, the solution is simple - kick them. They're nothing but dead weight, like the RDM I saw in a Nest party the other night when I was helping a friend get their AF. She wasn't casting anything, just fighting. Why put up with that shit? Why help them level in the name of taking whatever you can get? You're not doing anyone any favors by letting them advance like that.
Click to expand...

Did I say I stay in parties with mages like that? Did I? Well, since that's all of my posts you're actually responding to Neyla that's all I will say to you.

I still think I'll survive in the game without a cure from you.

Furthermore, I bring oils and ninja tools for anti-aggro. All I ask is for an initial sneak to save me some gil if I can get to the camp on it. I wasn't saying all mages did it, wasn't saying they should in a high aggro area.

Please don't start that train of discussion AGAIN! I sure as heck never went there.

I guess I am kinda wrong on the Tele-port quest thing. I forgot fame is so hard for people to accumulate. I just did quests as I leveled, so I have just always HAD fame.

Oh wait, it's NOT hard to accumulate. It's only hard for people who can't stop leveling to do a couple easy quests. Fame hard to get? You kidding me? You must be.

The thing that really bugs me atm, and is only my own fault, is that not much commentary has been said on the lack of pies/juices as opposed to tele and erase. That's one of the things that bugs me the most.

I have found erase to be much more handy then some of the mages here have let on though. I know a few Ninja tanks who got evasion down on them and didn't like it when the whm had no erase.

It's a good spell, and highly expensive, and that's why I don't expect it of a whm at 28 :P. At forty-five or so though, yeah.

One LAST little thing. White Mages can't make money well. I always hear this. It always bugs me. Every job can make money. Some are a little better at it then others, but every job can make good money in one way or another. Most of the whm I know aren't hurting for cash. they've taken up a trade and used their seals wisely, but they've worked hard and have the items they need as a result.

Just in general mages seem to be slacking off and lazy lately. That's been the whole point of this thread. It's been questioned on some things like spells, and I made the mistake of arguing back.

Spells or no spells, mages are slacking big time, and yeah it's getting me more riled by the day.
 
Erase is 32. Why would they have it at 28?
 
Anderithe said:
Spells or no spells, mages are slacking big time, and yeah it's getting me more riled by the day.
Click to expand...

You are so full of shit, this is such a grose generalization it's not even funny. "Mages are slacking big time" uhhh no, SOME mages are slacking big time along with a whole hell of a lot of melee. I saw a theif in the Nest wearing Lizard gear the other day....But nevermind that, it's on the mages that are slacking. :roll:
 
Don't forget that erase is also very useful during times like farming subligars in teh aqueducts and certain missions with lvl 40 caps.

I dunno, Anderthie has a point, though, I admit, I won't always use food. But I don't think its always needed.

I have an astral and pretty much what I consider the top not super expensive because i dont care that much gear for my level, and I seldom get low in a party on MP. I'm not going to use pies for the extra MP that i won't even use, and I'm not going to go out of my way to buy other food thats gonna land me a couple extra points on mnd spells that already take effect.

I Just hate it when everyone overanalyzes every little thing about this game that a player might do wrong, including food for mages. Some times, YES, depending on what race/job/area you are fighting mages SHOULD have food, but its all circumstancial.

As far as those mages not having the spells, including the teleport spells, and EXCLUDING erase (becasue that is circumstancial as well) I would never party with someone if they didnt have those spells. Never.

Erase really isn't that hard to get. My static whm got it recently by simply organizing a BCNM 40 run with LS members and trading out what they got as drops. NO BIG DEAL. You DONT Need to farm the 700 for the spell to get it. You just need to plan it right and get shit done.
 
Yeah, I wouldnt take whm past 32 til I had erase so I BCNM 40'd for it. It dropped very often. We got at least 3 erase scrolls from 6 runs.

I'm finding it VERY useful. It's the only way to get rid of normal slow til we get haste, and attack down can slow melee heavy parties right down. Sure, I wouldnt begrudge a WHM for not having it, but I'd be a bit disappointed if they didnt have it after 40. Theres no reason to actually buy the scroll.
 
Don't get me wrong, Erase is great at higher levels (which you'll note I said in my original post). I just hate the generalizations that are being made in this topic about mages, as if no other job is doing anything wrong. Everyone needs to lighten the hell up and quit ripping on entire jobs because they pt with a few crappy ones.

I swear to God, I'm sick of all the "OMFG all dragoons suck!", "OMFG no melee ever bring powders!", "OMFG mages slack off!" nonsense. If you run into a player that really sucks, flame THE PLAYER, don't flame THE JOB.
 
i find erase pretty useless for pretty much anything other than Spider Web and Bio/Dia III. for example Evasion down. this is AoE by large bat (i think). it will spam this like it is going out of fashion. i can only use divine veil every 10 mins. and i imagine the NIN tank would be alot more pissed off with me not healing and just casting erase than with the evasion down.

People seem to think i can cast two spells at once. If i am in the middle of casting a spell and you get silenced, you do not need to spam <Silenced> until that is all i can see on my chat screen. i am casting a damn cure spell on you, this does not mean that i have missed you getting silenced.

The third thing that pisses me off is randomly wanting to remove useless statusdowns. for example, i was partying in Boyhoda Tree (SP?), killing crawlers. NIN tank gets poisoned for 1dmg/3secs. then he spend the rest of the fight complaining about it. WHY?!? i am casting regen II on you. you are gaining 12hp/3secs. why the hell do you care that you are poisoned?
The same applies to PLD asking for poison in fight. i understand it stops them resting afer fight...but why do you need it during fight when you will only get poisoned again two seconds later?

See...Melee are far from perfect as well as mages. and i haven't even started on idiots who can't SC.

Btw i do agree that Mages should bring food etc.
 
I'd go the otherway, and say that Erase is equally important as Dispel is, from the moment both are available.

If a mob has a "Defense up" buff, you want it dispelled. Mellees having "Attack down" debuffs are really no different. Sure you'll still kill the mob either way (eventually) but it will still kill your experience...

The same with "Strength down", Dia (Defence down) for tanks, and Bio (Attack Down) for mellees...

It isn't easy to afford Erase at 32.

But you're costing yourself and your group Experience every party until you get it....
 
i bought Erase for my 37WHM that i stopped leveling for sub use only to my RDM, which i've stopped leveling at 65 altogether.

wish i can unlearn Erase and sell it back, hahahaha. what a total waste :cry:
 
I'm still lacking Erase, but i'll have it by the end of this week. Aside from that, i'm pretty much caught up on spells (except maybe...Barpetra.). I'm level 50 as it stands, and thus far I havent seen any real need for Erase. No ones complained (openly) to me about it, it hasnt been overly necessary though I do feel incomplete without it. All i'm saying is a WHM can manage without it till 50 or so, it seems. I've done it. o_o.

Oh, also. I always bring food to PT's. Be it either Mushroom Stew or Marron Glace, and I always pack a few Yagudo drinks with me. Not a ton, but 3 or 4 just incase things get gritty.

Not all us mages suck. Just some. ;_;
 
I'm sorry for any generalizations. I should have just left it at:

"A large portion of the mages I have been leveling with have been slacking off lately."
 
Blowy said:
I'd go the otherway, and say that Erase is equally important as Dispel is, from the moment both are available.

If a mob has a "Defense up" buff, you want it dispelled. Mellees having "Attack down" debuffs are really no different. Sure you'll still kill the mob either way (eventually) but it will still kill your experience...

The same with "Strength down", Dia (Defence down) for tanks, and Bio (Attack Down) for mellees...

It isn't easy to afford Erase at 32.

But you're costing yourself and your group Experience every party until you get it....
Click to expand...
Yeah, some of the debuffs on the melee's aren't that importnat. I went through the crabs with my monk, constantly getting STR down from bubble shower. My damage was a little less, but not so much that my damage was really effected. I still beat the crap out of the crabs, so it's not a big deal.

Until you get to dia/bio 3, erase is only a luxury.
 
Talking about people we've worked with lately...Like the last paladin tank I had who didn't bring any food with him because he "didn't have time," even though he teled in and then decided to run to Bibiki Bay instead of grabbing a choco. Or doing my G2 run where not a single melee brought powders or oils and things took three times longer than necessary because we had to kill half the zone every time we ran to the next fight. Not because the mages wouldn't cast mind you, but because the melees would stray from the pack and let it wear or go running through a horde of undead while still in the yellow. Fucking brilliant.

As for food, I'm not dipping into my stuff until we're a few fights in and I see just how much gil the party is going to be worth. I might pop a pie at the start, but what I eat after it wears is influenced by the group's performance.

It's not you I hate, but your consistent generalizations.
 
Just a couple of things, Mages are notoriously bad farmers, and anything we really can farm reliably is really o0nly for money drops, because by the time you can nuke a goblin or spider or such, you are soo over lvl'd above it the drop rate from the mob is next to nil.

Now there is never any excuse for not haveing basic pies, let alone a food that boosts critical job stats MND INT ect . . As for juice, I never have needed to bring juice to any XP party, pre or post refresh, sure it's handy but thats what 2 hours are for and MP recharge food as well.

As for this bit about skipping spells, :? If you can't afford any spell of any kind critical or non critical, be it erase or some kind of odd bar spell you will use once an eternity, you have no buisness lvling! If you can't afford basic supplies for an XP session, spend your time makeing money DAMNIT!

Save people time anger and frustration and most of all XP, and do yourself a favor and go farm and make money!

As for this flameing for lack of seer's and baron's peices, when I began mageing seer's was not avliable until almost 40. And baron's gear is brand new and although I own both sets and use them to level my lower lvl WHM and RDM, I feel armor is okay for a mage to slack a little. Seeing as Baron's is still somewhat brand new, and rather pricey, I don't exspect every mage I party with to have it, and over all +1 MP regen is not that big of a deal at any level. Seer's however I do exspect because it is cheap and you do not need the HQ to get the added effect. I look at it like going to party with my BLM and getting upset because the WHM and RDM don't have mahatma coats, instead they have NQ errant coats. Again +1 MP regen not that big of a deal.

So I agree with alot of what you said, but I think somethings need to be taken into concideration. Also mages can offset bad equipment or NQ equipment with good food or high MP regen food. Just my spin on how I see things.
 
:shock:

Red Mage was my first job. Earning money as your first job is a pain in the butt...please understand that.

I couldn't afford Dispel until level 36. (I had to borrow 70K from a friend.)
I couldn't afford Erase until level 54. (You don't really use it until higher levels)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top