Yellow Mage/ Time Mage

Mithe said:
I just wanted to chime in and say I think it'd be awesome if piss mages were added into the game. I can think of at least 20 urine related jokes I could use on them daily just off the top of my head. Given more time I'm positive the corny jokes would never end.

Like...........CHuCK nORis jOKes? {No Thanks} {Raging Rush} {Yellow Mage} {Can I have it?}

Chuck Norris jokes are funny but it will get old like this idea
 
Mariox said:
Oh is that all, spells like hastega, breakga, silencega been in game as long as dynamis has been. People should ignore someone who just now found it in files when its been there a long time, and others already tryed to state thay are adding these new spells only mobs can cast.

As RDM, I realy don't want -ga spells of what I already have.


And the extra hate from casting Aoe spells doesn't seem like something i would be interested in unless its like Ballista where people don't dogpile the aoe whore....oh wait those are blms /smile....but you know what i mean
 
lol, just so you all know, I didnt make up this Yellow Magic thing. Time Magic is classified as Yellow Magic in FFXII. (But that was during the demo.) I didnt make this up to be cute, funny or disgusting.
 
Alerith said:
18 that play differently?

Yea:

4 DD (WAR, MNK, DRK, SAM)
1 Healer (WHM)
2 DD Magic (BLM, BLU)
3 Support (RDM, COR, BRD)
4 Summon (BST, DRG, SMN, PUP)
2 Tank (NIN, PLD)
1 Ranger (RNG)
1 SATA (THF)

Too many of the jobs play alike. I guess in the end though, YLM would just be another support while we continue to lack in healing. I agree the jobs are different, but they play the same.

Yes, we have 18 different jobs. No, we dont have 18 jobs that play differently.

(This is how I view the jobs. Your opinions may differ. So Im not saying this is how it HAS to be.)

You do realize that Time Mage (stop calling it Yellow, that's so disgusting) would be grouped into the Support Category, which would more or less have it "play alike" in one of the most already-used slots there are, right?
 
Alerith said:
18 that play differently?

Yea:

4 DD (WAR, MNK, DRK, SAM)
1 Healer (WHM)
2 DD Magic (BLM, BLU)
3 Support (RDM, COR, BRD)
4 Summon (BST, DRG, SMN, PUP)
2 Tank (NIN, PLD)
1 Ranger (RNG)
1 SATA (THF)

Too many of the jobs play alike. I guess in the end though, YLM would just be another support while we continue to lack in healing. I agree the jobs are different, but they play the same.

Yes, we have 18 different jobs. No, we dont have 18 jobs that play differently.

(This is how I view the jobs. Your opinions may differ. So Im not saying this is how it HAS to be.)

I would say they all should have their different catagories, even though they may have the same role, they all handle their role very differently from one another. For instance Ninja and Paladins are both tanks, yes, but they tank entirely different from one another. Paladins have the ability to use white magic, while ninjas focus on blink tanking abilities and debuffs. They also excel in tanking different types of mobs. Ninja can take things that hit slow and hard with ease, but get chewed up by fast hitting mobs. Paladins can really take whatever is thrown at them and do their job pretty well.
As for you DD roles Monks are all about DoT, hitting hard and fast with their martial arts traits. While the samurai focus on dealing damage through weapons skills, drk's are a mix of magic and melee being able to use black magic and some really nice enfeebling spells. As for Warrior, I'm not quite sure how to explain it since they are very flexible with their roles. I could go through and explain how each job is different from one another in their own way, it really depends on what the player likes. The reason someone chooses their job is because they like the playing style of the job, because each is unique. It doesn't seem to make sense to me for them to be grouped into catagories like that. Since they all really do play differently from one another
 
I does not matter, the fact is no matter how hard you try any class made will fall into one or at best more of these categories, unless S-E does something crazy and out of the way (and arguably stupid) like making a crafter class or something crazy.

Also, really hate that list setup. Wtf is a "SATA" and "ranger" category? It's retarded. It's not really hard to logically figure out either. Also, just because pld and nin are different they are STILL BOTH TANKS. Your argument is that they play differently, which is true, but the fact is that ultimatly they are the same thing.


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The list should be catergorized at what classes do best/what their currently viewed at doing best regardless of their name or previous use. This by no means is an end all GOD list, I'm no god, but using logic it makes sense.

Oh, and a small note. Most of these weird hybrid arguments like pld testimonies saying they've played as DD pld and done fine, or nin being DD doesn't mean anything. Any pt setup is likely to "workout" as long as you get xp. The catch is most of us like getting -good- xp, so while you may think you're hot as a pld DD, I can almost guarnatee you it's a "make it work" or "we don't care we get less xp because we're friends" group. I know if I had a choice between equally skilled rng, drk,sam,war, and a pld... I wouldn't even have the pld on my mind.


Tanks - Pld and Nin
Reason: They reduce damage and keep hate better then any other class.

Damage Dealer - Drk,War,Sam,Drg,Mnk
Reason: Doing damage is their specialty, and they do it better then other classes. Mostly gear based classes, require less skill then other classes since all that is required is use of your abiliies,scing knowledge, and basic gameplay know how. Commonly played, leading to the phrase "DD are a dime a dozen."

Support - Rdm, Cor, Brd
Reason - Supportive abilities that don't directly effect the outcome of a battle. These abilities strengthen allies, weaken monsters, and increase the effectiveness of the party in many ways like reducing mage downtime. They are highly sought after, but hardly played in comparision to other classes. No one likes being the backstage stagehands that deserve the credit, they like being the famous actors that steal the spotlight. There is an exception, and that is rdm because even though it's fully a support character, it's soloing power makes them less depentant then your average support class. Being desired in parties to get what you want and having enough power outside it to fufill that power fetish is a thing few traditional support classes can boast about.

Super Damage Dealers - Rng, Blm , Blu
Reason - To earn a place above a DD a class must hold incredible raw power far above that of regular DD. And these classes do, however the catch is all of them have a limiting factor to their power in the name of balance. They still command the power to deal enormous damage until their limiter kicks in, and can usually outdamage a DD if both classes are at equal skill and gear for their respective class. Rng are limited by the amount of money they pay for their power, which at first seemed to be a good limiter. Unfortunely, thanks to IGE and our friendly gil sellers it's not much of a problem anymore, for being an expensive class escpicially if you don't make your own arrows and use nin sub... most rng seemed more decked out then other classes sporting the best gear like PCC. Hmmmm. Well, S-E fixed that by giving rangers another limiter, one rng know very very well hehe. Blm and blu both have the power to distance their damage from other DD, I regulary do more between my spells and normal attacks without much effort. And blm do the same, and to power their eliteness compared to your average DD, during a DD's biggest damage spike, a WS/SC, a blm can out damage each DD with their MB most of the time. Blu and blm both share the limiter of MP and hate, while they may do more damage then regular DD, they can't do too much or they will die, and they can only keep it up for so long before their mp pool is exhausted.

Healer - Whm and Smn
Reason : Summoner can do it as well as whm, and they have tools for most of the whm ailment cures. As nin and pld are different, so are smn and whm. They can do the same thing differently, and the argument of lower level raise and protect ect is moot. Those are perks that belong to whm. Smn's perks are their avatars, and what they can do with them. You sound as smart as someone arguing why ninja can't use shields and cure themselves if they are tanks. Smn's abilities do not justify them anywhere else. This is why pld are not here. This is why rdm are not here, because although a rdm CAN make a good replacment for a healer, their abilities are -best- used as a support, as 9/10 people given a generic situation and given a choice between cure/protect or refresh/dispel from a rdm would choose refresh/dispel. Regardless, a good rdm helps heal and offers protect should a smn be in party anyways, adding to their supportive role points rather then healer. Classes that are here effectively keep the party alive and going with healing abilities and spells, and have tools to make it easier, be it a large mp pool and auto refresh or spells like high level protect and shell and reraise.

(off the topic of my post and personal, I'm pissed about how everyone says smn can't main heal to 75. Every smn I pt with says they need help to heal. Please realize when you say this that you are a horrible summoner. Because people like myself have main healed to 75 WHILE summoning avatars and buffing the party without any problems what so ever. So saying you can't main heal without help or at all or can -only- main heal is calling yourself gimp. The only argument I will even tolerate hearing before I boot smn is that they don't -want- to main heal. I can appreciate that, I didn't want to either but instead of whining about it like a wuss I considered leaving the class or dealing with it. Please realize that while this may have "Final Fantasy" in the title does not mean that S-E is soul pledged to bring you material exactly as is from other FF games. Each FF game is different, and if in this one summoners aren't meant to summon like in other FF games, tough. If you think about it anyways, lets take popular FFVII, avatars came and went after using their abilities.)


Special - Pup, Thf, Bst
Reason: These classes are linked to each other by the fact that they have no defining role or a unique role not shared by other classes. Thief is the only hate control class in existence through the use of SATA. While it does some pretty nice numbers early on, eventually other DD use it to add some spice to their attacks and steal thief's hate control abilities, arguably making them useless. Arguably, they aren't needed anyways. Any pld worth his salt can hold hate, I've played with pld that can take a high damage SC and a high damage MB without a hitch. And although nin will benifit from extra hate from with a thief's help, any good nin can tank without a thief. Thief are alsot he only money making class, and while not an incredible increase, they are the only ones that can boast about making money due to their class abilities, which is what almost all of theirs lean toward. Either that or staying alive.. which helps them make money... neither of which helps a pt get xp . (Sorry thieves, <3 ya but it's the simple truth, blame S-E) Bst have the unique ability of being able to effectively solo, bearing the power of a full xp pt alone. PuP are just plain weird, although currently they are effectively being used as DD. They boast the uniqueness of their puppet, which can switch roles, although not in a drastic manner from what I've seen.
 
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Out of the Blue mages that I have seen I wouldn't put them under "Super Damage Dealers" I think that part may be a bit Biased. <.<
 
Super damage dealers is a horrible way to group it.

There are three DD types. Magical, Teir 1, and Teir 2.

Magical : BLM (and BLU?)
Tier 1: WAR / MNK / RNG (and BLU?)
Tier 2: DRK / SAM / DRG / THF
Teir 3: BRD / RDM / anyone else who's not really supposed to be meleeing

I'm not quite sure where NIN and BST go, I'm thinking teir 1.

Anyway.

Magical has, well, magical damage. Completely ignores the target's normal defenses, and is instead subject to resistance. Typically stronger than any melee-based counterpart in single-hit damage. Obviously BLM, and maybe BLU? I don't really know how their spells work.

Teir 1 has the hardest hitting melee damage. WAR, MNK, RNG, we know what those do. I haven't seen a BLU in action, but from what I've heard, they belong up here too.

Teir 2 is specialist melee damage. Not as strong in DoT as teir 1, but they have their own, distinct advantages. DRK can create obscenely high WS numbers, and aid the party with stun and absorbs. DRG have jump / high jump for faster TP gain, as well as their wyvern lending DoT and breath attacks. SAM is the skillchain master, with various methods to gain TP faster than anybody else, and thus WS more often. THF has the weakest DoT, but compensates with SA/TA/WS damage and hate control. PLD is also in this category.

NIN and BST... they're wierd. NIN is a poor DD with the usual tanking gear, but with the right gear, can go way into the upper parts of Teir 1. BST, with the right pet, can do the same. But normally, they're down in Teir 2.
 
Edited for double post by mistake, actual post is a bit further down on the next page.
 
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Sanjo Renomitsu said:
Excuse me, I'm highly offended by your choice of name for "Yellow Mage". For your benifit I'll list the politically correct translations for all the mages. Thank you. There -will- be spelling errors and you -will- be dealing with it.

Black mage - African Mage
White mage - Cacausion Mage
Blue mage - Affixliated Mage
Yellow mage - Asian Mage
Red Mage - Indian Mage


Have a nice day, and remember, be politically correct!

And btw Mai, I'd put SMN under healing, as they can heal fine and right now they need to to be arguably effective in pt's.

Super DD - Rng, Blm, Blu
DD - Sam, War, Drk, Drg, Mnk
Support - Rdm, Brd, Cor
Healer - Smn, Whm
Special - Thf, Bst, Pup
Tanks - Nin, Pld

Red mage would be Native American* :biggrin:
And technically, Samurai and Warrior are also able to tank decently if you know how. (SAM holds hate with WS's, and has high parrying)(WAR keeps hate with WS's, subs Ninja and has Defender and can have shield (interchangable /equip macros))
 
Torqameda said:
Red mage would be Native American* :biggrin:
And technically, Samurai and Warrior are also able to tank decently if you know how. (SAM holds hate with WS's, and has high parrying)(WAR keeps hate with WS's, subs Ninja and has Defender and can have shield (interchangable /equip macros))

If a WAR were to tank it would be with a monk sub dude. I wouldn't in my right mind trust 6 shadows the whole fight over higher VIT, counter. hp boosts, and all the nice ja's that monk have. Also, WAR would keep hate with voke alone if spammed, along with warcry, and monk ja's that go along with it. Even with all of this though we usually get chewed up pretty fast. At 60 anyways. Some nice tank gear later on I want to mess around with.
 
Botosai said:
Out of the Blue mages that I have seen I wouldn't put them under "Super Damage Dealers" I think that part may be a bit Biased. <.<

I'm not biasing anything, when a drk swings for (going to give him a "happy" number) 120 points of damage a swink with a scythe, and we all know how slow that is, I'm swinging 23 points of damage, then a 100 damage M. bite, followed by a 40 damage feather storm, and maybe a 20-40 damage headbut, these spells have fast casting times. Overall between my normal damage and spell cycling, I can pass most DD in their normal damage. As for SC, I've yet to reach amazing numbers but I hear many good things about /thf, and I wil try it. Also, I havn't gotten into any of the moves higher level blu are telling me simply own.

As for your tiers mai, I kind of half agree. Each melee does damage in a different way, it's still damage. Samurai do most of their damage in their quick WS, drk do it in raw power, mnk do it fast, and some of them are best against particular things (like mnks vs bones) but in general their goal and task is to do damage. In a generic situation rng, blu and blm do more damage in varying amounts. This is what I was refering too, and although bst and nin can be used as DD like I said they are best suited elsewhere because the larger portion of their abilities better suits them as something else then a DD are not as situational based.

super DD sounds misleading I guess, I meant more to call them burst DD or something like that I guess. Blm IS magical damage, and often delicous against many mobs and they can also capitalize on SC with their MB. Ranger is suppose to be supprier damage period, I'm sure few would disagree if you remember the ballista days of old, and the old days in general. Ranger were powerful to be sure, and remain so today. Blu can do damage spells fast, and while most of them are not big numbers they add up quickly. The reason I'd put them above normal DD is because they can do some serious damage but will eventually be stopped by a factor like mp or ammo(ha), while the normal DD can keep hitting hard with normal attacks and WS without penalty.

Btw, thinking about Time mage, there'd need to be some new spells. (a duh, I know lol). It could happen I suppose, some hardcore haste spells, a double attack like spell...give em aoe warp and quarter and demi. Badass slow spells, and a rewind ability and fast forward ability.

Rewind: Undoes damage and status effects (uncluding death) done in the last 30 seconds, maybe add a long timer? Aoe definitally.

Fastword: Redoes any damage and status effect done in the last 5 (maybe 10 seconds?) Imagine this with thieves or right after an egale eye shot lol.


Ah well, knowing S-E anything is possible. If it doesn't fit FFXI they make it work. They added new spells for blu, I don't see why they won't do it again when they eventually add more classes.
 
Sanjo Renomitsu said:
I'm not biasing anything, when a drk swings for (going to give him a "happy" number) 120 points of damage a swink with a scythe, and we all know how slow that is, I'm swinging 23 points of damage, then a 100 damage M. bite, followed by a 40 damage feather storm, and maybe a 20-40 damage headbut, these spells have fast casting times. Overall between my normal damage and spell cycling, I can pass most DD in their normal damage. As for SC, I've yet to reach amazing numbers but I hear many good things about /thf, and I wil try it. Also, I havn't gotten into any of the moves higher level blu are telling me simply own.

Even though those spells have fast casting times in the time it takes you do cast about 2-3 a DRK would have swung again, and their ws damage it better than BLU, and DRK also has magic too, I'd say that the damage output from both jobs would be very close. Let's also not forget you're only lvl 50 or so, true you'll get better spells, but so will DRK, not to mention guillotine.
 
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Botosai said:
Even though those spells have fast casting times in the time it takes you do cast about 2-3 a DRK would have swung again, and their ws damage it better than BLU, and DRK also has magic too, I'd say that the damage output from both jobs would be very close.


Drk's magic rarly goes beyound use of absorbs and stun, since their magic damage leaves something to desire and they can be whacking while casting.

A dark swings slow with a cythe, I cast at least cast two spells almost back to back (there is some delay in the actual casting animation and the .5 second casting time or whatever it is) before he swings again. And you're right, I agree, drk do more damage in SC. They are very close to the SDD teir imo because of their abilities, but they are not close enough to go into it. Atm I'm not currently into the level where drk does sata, but right now I out damage a drk in normal inbetween attacks, and on SC the dark can bring out at this level 200-300ish damage, maybe. Self scing and mbing I can do 60-100ish damage on a ws, 100+ easy on the blu spell, and on average 50 damage on MB, more with int gear (I use gear macros) so I end up hitting on the MB 100+, blizerwhatever did 170 on lizards a while ago. Thats about 210 damage at worst (meaning not average) and almost 400 damage at best at this leve. And thats just damage generated by blu compared to damage done by drk. Of course things may change when drk subs SATA, but from what I'm seeing and hearing, blu keep up the pace when they sub thf too, and some later spells really up the bar on blu.

So you're right, at worst they are very close in damage, but overall I believe blu are slightly stronger,maybe even more, or at least have the potential to be. (stupid bad blu's)
 
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*shrugs* a rdm who does nothing but refresh (litterely nothing, no dispel, heal, DoT's, or even melee) is not worth my time, ect ect ect for other classes.

I'm not an elitest, but there is a min. line where I could be doing something more productive then getting 200 xp an hour, and probably losing a lot more from deaths.
 
Weeee SATA Death Scissors for 693 damage to a VT. ;D
 
Khidir said:
Like...........CHuCK nORis jOKes? {No Thanks} {Raging Rush} {Yellow Mage} {Can I have it?}

Chuck Norris jokes are funny but it will get old like this idea

Sorry dude, I guess detecting sarcasm isn't so easy. Don't take things so seriously.
 
Sanjo Renomitsu said:
Excuse me, I'm highly offended by your choice of name for "Yellow Mage". For your benifit I'll list the politically correct translations for all the mages. Thank you. There -will- be spelling errors and you -will- be dealing with it.

Black mage - African Mage
White mage - Cacausion Mage
Blue mage - Affixliated Mage
Yellow mage - Asian Mage
Red Mage - Indian Mage
LOLOLOL
 
Are the people who are saying all DD play alike only playing mage jobs?

I'm a monk main and I wouldn't play a drk for any money. One miss and you're out twelve tp and you've just gone 13 seconds without touching the mob? Not for me . . .

Anyway, nothing against dark knights; I just like a different job whose damage output also happens to be melee (and those 150-450 chi blasts on inc IT mobs).

Some people don't enjoy using certain weapons, too. I loved the idea of a hand-to-hand fighter. When I'm prioritizing gear, one thing I consider for the feet slot is kick attacks damage -- no other melee uses that. I'm not particularly interested in store tp gear, since I rely on kick attacks and double attack from sub to get me ready for the skillchain in time, but a boost to subtle blow can be very appealing, depending on what kind of mob we're fighting.


Someone mentioned a few pages back that DD's only need to know basic gameplay. I kind of beg to differ. Or rather, I'm not convinced that a rdm (often martyred as the "busiest" job in a party), needs to know more than I do. A rdm, after all, doesn't need to be able to produce a skillchain at the start of a party. Refresh and haste cycles may take some time to execute, but they hardly require more knowledge of game dynamics. As for business, there are moments in a party when I don't see my character for around 5-10 seconds because my gear is constantly being changed. The other day I partied with a samurai who wanted to use the skillchain at the beginning of the fight. I was two levels above both him and our pld, and I consistently pulled hate with howling fist (he didn't have Tachi: Gekko yet -- the melee will know what I mean). This meant swapping on -enmity gear (raven pieces), counter gear, and evasion gear until the tank got hate back, then swapping back to damage gear (attack/str or acc/str depending on whether berserk or focus was up at the time). That was after switching from chi blast gear to weaponskill gear.

I know mages are busy, and I know you swap gear a lot too. I'm just not convinced that you know more about the game than I do. I've played a few mage jobs to 20 or 30, and it's way more relaxing. As a melee DD, I'm constantly tinkering with my gear -- an acc ring here, a weapon change there -- trying to make sure I'm hitting the mob and my numbers are as high as I can get them. It's like solving for the best fit in real time. I carry something on the order of 51-52 pieces when I have all the gear I like to carry to parties with me -- not counting food (attack or acc) and oils/powders.

And I still consider myself something of a melee noob at the low level of 65.

And frankly, if I started dark knight or samurai, I think I'd have to rethink the way I equip my character and deal damage altogether. Using a crossbow for status effects and tp gain comes to mind . . .

Anyway, just some thoughts.
 
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