your view on muslim's veil/hijab

[Dayner]

after the former UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw give his comments over this and few EU country ban it

other been ordered by the Qu'ran which to muslim is the word from allah/god and the holy book ,

many female muslim feel they should keep it to protect themself and not draw any sexual attention

was wondering what the ppl on this server think of veil/hijab

should arab/muslim woman take them off or keep them ?

here is some basic info abot it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab

here is some styles of hjiab

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Hijab

the Abaya , Burqa , Niqāb and Buknuk style is used here in saudi

 

[Uzor]

I don't care as long as its the female's own choice, and not the male's. Sadly, I think most muslim women in Sweden are pushed by their husbands to keep it on.

One of the largest arguments against them, is that it creates discrimination against women. Problem is, as long as its the women's own choice to wear them, there is no discrimination. The hijab isn't the reason for discrimination, its just a symbol for it. Removing the Hijab won't remove discrimination, since the discrimination is still there. That's like saying nazi's will dissapear if you remove their international sign.

However, the hijab also wasn't there originally. Its not a word from allah that women should wear hijab. The hijab first came in to the muslim world when one of the kings (or whatever you call them) didn't like that other men looked at his wives bodies, thus making it so no one but him could see them.

So it really serves no purpose other then to cover up the mens "properties", so in one way I can see their worries.

 

[Dayner]

However, the hijab also wasn't there originally. Its not a word from allah that women should wear hijab. The hijab first came in to the muslim world when one of the kings (or whatever you call them) didn't like that other men looked at his wives bodies, thus making it so no one but him could see them.

“ Believers! Enter not the houses other than your own until you have introduced yourselves and wished peace to those in them. That is best for you that you may be heedful. If you find no one in the house, enter not until permission is given to you. If you are asked to go back, go back, for it is purer for you. Allah has knowledge of all which you do. It is no sin for you to enter non-residential places in which there is benefit for you. And Allah has knowledge of what you reveal and what you conceal. [O Prophet!] tell believing men to restrain their eyes and guard their private parts [if there are women present in these houses]. That is purer for them. And Allah is well aware of what you do. And tell the believing women to restrain their eyes and to guard their private parts and to display of their ornaments only those [which are worn on limbs] which are normally revealed and to draw their khumūr over their bosoms. They should not reveal their ornaments to anyone save their husbands or their fathers or their husbands’ fathers or their sons or their husbands’ sons or their brothers or their brothers’ sons or their sisters’ sons or other women of acquaintance or their slaves or the subservient male servants who are not attracted to women or children who have no awareness of the hidden aspects of women. They should [also] not stamp their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. Believers turn to Allah in repentance that you may prosper.

khumūr is other word for Hijab

 

[Zyndara]

Personally, I think it's the equivalent of the dark ages where women were treated more like servants to men than equal human beings. To expect a woman to cover up and speak softly and not even ask it of a man is archaic. I would literally rather die than have some man tell me that am to be neither seen nor heard in order to be "holy" or "righteous." But I think if it's a part of their faith, and it's what makes them happy, then all the more power to them. It's not my place or my business what they believe or how they are treated if they choose that lifestyle.

*However* that being said, there are many things that can be concealed in something that is the equivalent of a burqa. If security/safety is an issue, ie: airport scannings, federal buildings, etc., then I think the women need to understand and respect that as well. A non-muslim woman's bulky purse can be searched and scrutinized, or someone with bulky clothing can be scanned carefully for security reasons, so I think in that case, there needs to be flexibility despite any religious obligations. I mean, there are a lot of things that religions require/ask of their believers that need to be compromised in modern society. I think with today's risks being what they are, it wouldn't be an unreasonable request to have someone lift their veil or be scanned by security.

 

[Uzor]

Then they must have skipped that part earlier, or it was added in. Burqa is a rather new phenomenon

Like I said though, I don't care as long as the woman choses it themselves. And I don't think removing the burqa will remove any kind of discrimination against women, which is what the feminists believe.

 

[Trippyhippy]

Women shouldn't be forced or allowed to do anything. They should be given the same choices as men.

If they want to wear them, that's fine. But if they don't want to wear them, then that should be fine too.

I don't know about drawing sexual attention to theirself though. I think they could wear half as many garments and still be repectfully covered.

This suit:

warants no more sexual attention than this ?hijab?:

 

[Dayner]

well to alot of muslim face and hair can draw sexual attention

 

[Uzor]

well to alot of muslim face and hair can draw sexual attention

That's because they're not used to seeing it Seeing any part of a women they're not used to seeing automatically draws sexual attention. I'm sure if women ran around naked all day, it wouldn't draw that much more sexual attention then women nowadays do. Its about seeing the "hidden" and "secret" parts.

I do, however, believe that banning them is wrong, since that's hindering people from performing hteir religion, which is discrimination too.

 

[Zyndara]

Perhaps some self-control then? I think maybe the women shouldn't be burdened (covered from head to toe) by whether or not a man can control his lustful thoughts. Lust is one of the seven deadly sins in Christianity too, but you don't see Catholic women walking around in burqas.

 

[Trippyhippy]

well to alot of muslim face and hair can draw sexual attention

Perhaps that is because such things are considered taboo in your society. When seeing a womans face becomes a regular occurance, it will no longer seem like a sexual body part.

...or their slaves...

Anything that mentions slavery as something other than completely wrong and ahorant to all that is good is not something I want to live my life by. The christian bible outlines the proper ways to treat your slaves. That is one of the main reasons I started to question the beliefs that my parents handed down to me.

Slavery is wrong. Any book or person that condons it is wrong. I know that is a bit off topic from what you were trying to point out, but I haven't read much (any) of the Qur'an and that is a bad start.

 

[Uzor]

Perhaps some self-control then? I think maybe the women shouldn't be burdened (covered from head to toe) by whether or not a man can control his lustful thoughts. Lust is one of the seven deadly sins in Christianity too, but you don't see Catholic women walking around in burqas.

It isn't a deadly sin in Islam. Sex is actually considered a gift from god.

Reason they're not allowed to have sex with just anyone, is for that very reason. So they won't over-abuse it, and so they can really enjoy the gift they got. And share it with the person they love.

 

[Dayner]

well we dont have slaves nowdays but we used to have them before islam tho
so its not an islamic thing now

 

[Trippyhippy]

well we dont have slaves nowdays but we used to have them before islam tho
so its not an islamic thing now

Some would argue that women are slaves in your country. Still, isn't my point. The point is that the Qur'an speaks of slavery and does not consider it to be an atrocity.

The covering of womans private parts and slavery are mentioned in the same sentence. Slavery is no longer practiced, but the covering of women has been practiced to this day. Why would you only practice part of what it teaches? Slavery is considered in-humane and I say walking around in that desert heat with all those clothes on should fall in the same category.

Furthermore... what is your opinion on the matter? Do you think it should be a requirement, or do you think women should be allowed to dress how they want (within reason).

 

[Zyndara]

It isn't a deadly sin in Islam. Sex is actually considered a gift from god.

Reason they're not allowed to have sex with just anyone, is for that very reason. So they won't over-abuse it, and so they can really enjoy the gift they got. And share it with the person they love.

I know what it's considered in Islam. Dayner just said women are covered because "a muslim woman's hair or face can draw sexual attention." The point I'm making is, me wearing a T-shirt isn't an invite for every man to take me to bed. Men are capable of controling their animal urges. Not to mention, I might add, that you're not really giving any credit to these women. No one said anything about having sex with just anyone. It's not a question of sex, it's a question of control. There is a difference between lust and sex. Seeing a woman's bare skin doesn't mean she's going to hop in the sack with the first man who finds her pleasing to the eye. And if that's the big fear, then yeah, something's really wrong with that picture.

 

[Uzor]

Some would argue that women are slaves in your country. Still, isn't my point. The point is that the Qur'an speaks of slavery and does not consider it to be an atrocity.

The covering of womans private parts and slavery are mentioned in the same sentence. Slavery is no longer practiced, but the covering of women has been practiced to this day. Why would you only practice part of what it teaches? Slavery is considered in-humane and I say walking around in that desert heat with all those clothes on should fall in the same category.

That depends though, what's to say they wear a lot of clothes under the Burka? and to my understanding, the Burka is sowed in a way that it won't keep heat that well. I may be wrong though.

And just because an ancient book speaks of slavery doesn't mean that Muslims as a whole condones it. The bible have been extremely edited out, to remove parts that involves rape etc. That doesn't mean the christians as a whole believe that rape is right.

 

[delsus]

Can not wear the head piece but you can wear a cross... stupid

then again alot of people need to see facial expressions for them to learn as well.

If u live in the UK go by the UK rules

Country rules> Religious rules

 

[Uzor]

There is a difference between lust and sex. Seeing a woman's bare skin doesn't mean she's going to hop in the sack with the first man who finds her pleasing to the eye. And if that's the big fear, then yeah, something's really wrong with that picture.

Yes, but its the same thing in the christian countries. Rapes happen every day, because a man sees a woman lightly dressed, and can't controll his urges. Muslim countries, have an incredibly low ammount of rapes, so the hijad DOES work.

However, one might argue that rapes isn't a woman's fault. And yes, I agree. That's entirely up to the men. But that's only my opinion, and someone else might have a different one.

Thing is, the media only brings up the bad parts of the religion, and ignores the bad parts. This is rather unfair, as Islam as a religion, is a very good one.

 

[Dayner]

well i know alot of of you may not like what i am abot to say.. but as muslim i must follow the words of allah/god without asking why . its all matter of faith

 

[Uzor]

Can not wear the head piece but you can wear a cross... stupid

then again alot of people need to see facial expressions for them to learn as well.

If u live in the UK go by the UK rules

Country rules> Religious rules

Problem with this is that following religious rules isn't against the country's rules, as pretty much every country have a rule that allows free religious beliefs.

 

[Courtney]

If you believe that the women are only wearing the veil because the men are forcing them to, you haven't been exposed very closely to Islamic culture. It's as much a part of both sexes beliefs as Yarmulkah is to Jews, and I don't see how a country that professes Freedom of Religion could consider banning them...

( and isn't this a bit off topic for FFXI or have the forums got mixed up again?)