2009 E3 thread

[Rips]

Square-Enix shows us how to make a recycled and uninspired MMO. Thanks guys! Taking a page right out of SOE huh?

I'll still be playing it, I know it. I just won't spend 5 years on it.

 

[Gerry]

I'm with you guys here. SE should take into account that other territories, namely North America, contributed to the success of FFXI and to shaft us again with a JP first release would just be slap in the face. I remember a crap load of drama between JP/NA back in '03-'05 so let's hope that was something they chalked up on the "lessons learned" column.

Here's hoping for a simultaneous release with Japan then.

 

[Skaw]

I'll still be playing it, I know it. I just won't spend 5 years on it.

The worst part of it all is that they couldn't even have come up with a new brand, and fell back on Final Fantasy because they know it sells. Let's congratulate Square-Enix on such daring attempts at creating new IPs.

 

[Tagrineth]

Square-Enix shows us how to make a recycled and uninspired MMO. Thanks guys! Taking a page right out of SOE huh?

I like how you already know how the game will play, what the UI will be like, how much grinding leveling will take, and even what the endgame activities will be like based on a single trailer

The worst part of it all is that they couldn't even have come up with a new brand, and fell back on Final Fantasy because they know it sells. Let's congratulate Square-Enix on such daring attempts at creating new IPs.

To be fair, though, nearly every new FF has effectively been a new IP, since they haven't re-used the same characters or world except for the ill-conceived FFX-2 and now FFIV: The After Years.

But yeah, this isn't the first time they've tacked the FF name onto something that probably shouldn't have been called FF - FF Adventure was actually the predecessor to Secret of Mana, and FF Legends 1/2/3 were part of the SaGa series and called such in Japan. Another fun fact, "Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest" was just called "Mystic Quest" in Japan and "Mystic Quest: Legends" in Europe...

 

[Firestreak]

if we play it
and it's released in japan first
we all importing it and doin that shit together.

and none of this learning curve pussy crap, we analyze, we determine the best party setups, we determine the best gear, race for jobs, best subjob or whatever and we take off running from the start

dig in, get the job done, get max level, ignore endgame and sit around town bullshitting about the newest games coming out

 

[Skaw]

I like how you already know how the game will play, what the UI will be like, how much grinding leveling will take, and even what the endgame activities will be like based on a single trailer

It's no different than everyone else creaming in their pants over a single trailer with absolutely no gameplay footage. I wonder why there isn't any, actually. 2010 is pretty damn close for an MMO, and it's pretty common these days for even reveal trailers to have in-game footage, or at least in-engine footage.

To be fair, though, nearly every new FF has effectively been a new IP, since they haven't re-used the same characters or world except for the ill-conceived FFX-2 and now FFIV: The After Years.

A franchise isn't just about story and characters, but ultimately the substance of the game. The WarCraf RTS games have very few reoccurring characters, focusing on new ones pretty much entirely with each installment. You'd assume WarCraft 4 would at least play like WarCraft though, even if they changed the name of Peasants to Serfs, right?

 

[Raesvelg]

It's no different than everyone else creaming in their pants over a single trailer with absolutely no gameplay footage. I wonder why there isn't any, actually. 2010 is pretty damn close for an MMO, and it's pretty common these days for even reveal trailers to have in-game footage, or at least in-engine footage.

You've become so bitter over the years Skaw...

So very bitter...

/comfort

 

[Halifirien]

On an unrelated note, Final Fantasy 7 has gone live on the PSN store for $9.99. I'm double-impressed there's no "Square Enix tax" like their DS games.

 

[Firestreak]

Sequels have a general negative connotation, especially past a certain point. There are a good number of reasons, most importantly... when you're writing the original, you have the creative freedom you need to prioritize the plot. Don't need a character, cut him out... he never existed. You can't do the same with a sequel. You can't change the time period to better suit the plot, you have to have the plot set in the already established time period. Some franchises fare better than others.

Star Trek is a great example of a franchise that you can pump out endless sequels. It has a formula that was derived off a TV show, so it was created with a sense of "this is one of our many adventures." There can be a bad Star Trek movie, but the next one could be great. It doesn't tap out creatively.

Rocky is an example of a franchise that's not set up well like that. It's based on a boxer, who, in the original movie, was not young and fresh and was never as good as he becomes. With each movie he becomes more of a cartoon character and the spirit of the original is lost.

Final Fantasy on the other hand doesn't have the restraints even of Star Trek. There is no Captain Kirk or Spock you need to have your lead. There is a formula though: Sci fi and Fantasy is mixed. Characters progress through a D&D styled progression and the story must reflect an immense strength increase from the start. Characters have certain classes in combat that should be shown somewhat in their personalities... airships, boats... maybe throw in a guy named Cid...

Beyond that they just have a philosophy in their design, where they blend existential angst with world changing events, potentially have characters with different points of view come to grips with each other, show military oppressive forces as easily corrupted. Show teamwork and friendship develop over the course of a long adventure. The things that tend to get repeated are either broad enough or easy enough to repeat that they can continually cultivate engaging games even if they're churning them out like a production line.

Doesn't mean every game will be good. But you know what, they certainly try innovation in a genre where innovation is HARD. In fact, other games take their games and replicate them. So I don't really think they're stale persay...

Naw as a company in general... they're stale as fuck. All they do is remake old games and barely improve them cause they're going on the DS anyway. Anything console wise they do sucks. But you know, they haven't been releasing shit main FF games, they haven't been releasing them at all.

I mean come on... FF4/6 for Snes..
7/8/9 for PS1... a quality trio.
10 for PS2...
11 was their FIRST MMO.
12 for PS2... very different kinda game.

and we been waiting for 13 for forever.

and I'll just point out to me, a NA player who never imported that japanese stuff. FF13 isn't really the 13th FF, because FF6 is my FF3. FF7 is really my FF4... and so FF13 is really my FF10. This a franchise that was on the original Nintendo. How many main Mario games there been since then?

Mario1, 2, 3, World, 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, Luigi Mansion, Galaxy 2.... that's 9. And the FF games are a shitload more different from each other game to game than Mario games are generally speaking.

And let's face it... this is Square's SECOND MMO. I mean... it's not their 14th. I'm thinking they learned things from their first, which is still the best MMO out there in my opinion, despite its massive flaws. The odds are it's going to be ground up better design, addressing its biggest issue... the waiting... while trying ramp up what made it great, the co-operative gameplay.

And no not saying I'm definitely getting it... it's a question of if I want to play a MMO at all or not...

 

[Firestreak]

On an unrelated note, Final Fantasy 7 has gone live on the PSN store for $9.99. I'm double-impressed there's no "Square Enix tax" like their DS games.

There's a tax. PS1 games are $6 generally.

 

[Halifirien]

There's a tax. PS1 games are $6 generally.

True, but that's the slight $4 tax for the PSN's more upscale releases like Symphony of the Night and Resident Evil: Director's Cut. I figured a multi-disc game like this would have S-E go for $15-20 easily. I'm glad they didn't.

 

[Skaw]

I mean come on... FF4/6 for Snes..
7/8/9 for PS1... a quality trio.
10 for PS2...
11 was their FIRST MMO.
12 for PS2... very different kinda game.

and we been waiting for 13 for forever.

and I'll just point out to me, a NA player who never imported that japanese stuff. FF13 isn't really the 13th FF, because FF6 is my FF3. FF7 is really my FF4... and so FF13 is really my FF10. This a franchise that was on the original Nintendo.

I wouldn't say 12 is different, aside from removing random unavoidable battles. The combat system is still the same, just minus the mashing the confirm button to get through battles. It still uses the same ATB system we've been seeing since the SNES days, streamlined with if/then instructions to be less time consuming. Turn Based under the guise of Real Time. Speed stats still determined the order in which/how often characters acted.

FF13 is still your 13th Final Fantasy as a North American. The three previously-skipped ones have been released outside of Japan. Whether or not you've played them is at no fault to Square at this point.

 

[Anttaru]

I never sat down and looked over the conferences yet.

I enjoyed reading this thread and youtubing some of the things you all mentioned. Team Ninja + Nintendo was a shocking read, after checking it out I must admit the Wii finally has an up coming title that turns me on, and I'll get one just for that, and grab me a copy of Punch out while I'm at it.

FFXIV = DANGER

I must resist. FFXI done me such wrong. My life is almost too good to be true and getting even better right now, and I'm far too busy to go that deep into gaming ever again. I think I would probably fall in love with FFXIV if it's anything like FFXI except face lifted with better ideas and economics.

 

[Firestreak]

Kojima seemed much more excited by the PSP game than he did the PS3/Xbox360 game... as a guy who prefers to play on a big ass TV or projector screen, that's not good.

 

[Halifirien]

The newer PSPs have output to the big screen, so you could always play it that way.

 

[TheOsyris]

Kojima seemed much more excited by the PSP game than he did the PS3/Xbox360 game... as a guy who prefers to play on a big ass TV or projector screen, that's not good.

Yet he spoke the entire time in Engrish. Did you rike it?

 

[Firestreak]

The newer PSPs have output to the big screen, so you could always play it that way.

Ya I've tried it and trust me it's not great. It got a big black box around it and you have to stay as near to your receiver as the cord will let you. I was hoping the new PSP having bluetooth would mean you can connect directly to a PS3 and play off of that video connection(with a full screen 1080p upscale), but then again I was hoping they would allow a way to upload your UMDs and not cost more than $200. The PSP is a system with games I want to play but I just can't get into this portable bullshit.

 

[Halifirien]

I'm generally underwhelmed by Nintendo's offerings, but new Metroid and Golden Sun makes me happy... and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Four-player co-op means my sister's kids will be constantly picking up their siblings and tossing them into the nearest piranha plant. Good times.

 

[Skaw]

I was kinda disappointed when I saw Team Ninjas logo on the Other M trailer. Then I saw Adam and he asked his famous question.

 

[Halifirien]

The new Penny Arcade strip about Metroid made me laugh. I don't know how the game will turn out, but it has me excited.