A good Monk and why you should invite them.

CubsWoo

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As I approach my four hour mark LFG (including trying to form a party, the mage jobs just haven't been there) I figured, what the hell, why not throw together my thoughts about the MNK class as a whole and why you should pick one up as a quality DD.

What a MNK can do for you:

1: Monks are top-tier damage dealers from 1-75. Sometimes it doesn't seem that way due to the way the game reads damage:

DRK hits the X for 120 damage.
MNK hits the X for 65 damage.
MNK hits the X for 55 damage.

Same damage, but a casual glance makes it look as if the DRK is totally outclassing the MNK, when they're both keeping pace. Of course, if the MNK misses one of their two hits, the damage isn't the same - but we get 2 opportunites to hit every round instead of just one, and half damage is much better than a whiff.

2: Monks are the fastest-attacking melee DD class. Leaving THF out of the equasion (I consider them hate-managment and not pure DD) MNKs have the lowest delay weapons at the mid-40s and beyond. To compare:

MNK base H2H delay at 46 is 340 seconds. The knuckles I wear add 91 to that, so you get a delay of 431, or about 7.18 seconds if the 60 delay = 1 RL second figure I've been given is true. Compare that to the average:

Great Sword: 480 = 8 seconds
Great Axe: 504 = 8.4
Scythe: 470 = 7.83
Polearm: 480 = 8(there are some sub-400 polearms, but the damage is much poorer, so I doubt this is a fair comparison)
Great Katana: 450 = 7.5
Dual-wielded Axes: 276x2 = 552 = 9.2(with Dual Wield 2 at 50 this drops to 414, but MNKs also get lower-delay weapons at that level.)

Keep in mind that this is only BASE delay. A good MNK at these levels will likely have a Brown Belt and a pair of Fuma Kyahan. Together these add 11% Haste to their stats, giving the MNK a new delay total of 383, or 6.83 seconds. This translates to one or two extra attack rounds in the course of an average IT mob fight. More attack rounds = more potential damage = better XP/hr. And this doesn't factor in what happens post-50 when Double Attack and Kick Attacks start firing.

3: MNKs are a good first voker. While arguably not as good as WAR/NIN, we have the HP and the VIT to take a hit or two off the bat to set up SATA. And quite a bit of the damage we take we can just Chakra back.

4: We close Fusion amazingly well with Raging Fists. Now, I know what you're going to say... "Wah wah wah MNKs can't do Distortion until late 50's omg what is a boy to do" but in my experience Distortion isn't all it's cracked up to be. In more than one party, we've had the capability to do both Distortion and Fusion and we've gone with Fusion simply because I was adding more damage through RF and the Fusion add than Distortion ever did. And the MBs for Fire II as opposed to Blizzard II were just about the same.

5: We have one of the best 'save your ass' 2hrs in the game. Need something dead fast? Have your MNK pop Hundred Fists and get behind the PLD for Cover. I've saved countless deaths and wipes with HF.

6: You're going to want us post-65. Dragon Kick closes Light and makes XPing a breeze, especially on Bones. But to get that level, and that skill, you're gonna have to help us get there.

And, of course, there are critics...

"But all you do is punch!"

True enough. But any MNK who puts on auto-attack and gets a sandwich is not a GOOD Monk. A good MNK keeps their eye on all of their ability timers, keeps a good Boost stack ready for an inital Chi Blast, knows when to use Dodge/Focus/Berserk and when to save it for a critical WS, and so on. It's not a busy job in the same way RDM or BRD is, far from it. But it's also not automatic.

"But our THF wants to SATAVB and you can't open Distortion!"

No, no we can't, not at this level. But a good MNK knows the skillchain chart, and will offer Backhand Blow -> SATAVB. This creates Scission (not amazing, I know, but it's something) and offers a decent MBing opportunity. I imagine this might be preferred on Toramas, but I'm not up there yet.

"I saw Gimped MNK X, he had awful gear! Why should I take him?"

You shouldn't. Gear is about on par with skill for the makings of an excellent Monk. I currently have over 3 million gil's worth on mine - and that's before Cross-Counters/TM Hooks +2, Scorpion Harness or Pallas's Bracelets. MNKs that don't have quality gear should put their flags down and FARM. I did it, you can too. That level 40 'ouch' gear basically gets you set until AF and the level 60 stuff.

"Just suck it up and play another job, nobody wants j00 lolpwnzordbbq DRKZ ROOLZ MNKZ DROOLZ"

That wasn't a criticism. And stop using so many z's.

"SHUT UP FAG"

Um... no. Give a quality MNK a chance and you'll come back to them, I promise you.

...like mine. Won't you help?

*This has been a paid advertisement for MNKs for Parties, brought to you by a grant from the Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! Foundation, the letter O, and Viewers Like You.*
 
/praise Cubswoo

Finally, someone who understands!

I'd rant here about my dislike of those blinded by the big numbers of the DRK and small ones of the MNK and how I outdamage them without trying, but it'd get transferred to the flameboards real quick. ^_^;;
 
Agreed, monks are awesome. We have a monk in my static. We both have the best gear that we can (snipers, kote vs valk mask, etc) and he outdamages me most typical fights. If both his hits connect we're right about even. That's not counting his occasional kick attack. The only times I always outdamage is mid xp chain when I do a mostly Souleater'd fight. I'm hoping to get the edge on him with a hauby at lvl 59 but we'll see how that goes.

Of course, a good DRK SHOULD usually get outdamaged in a fight if he's using mp correctly.
 
As usual, I expected nothing less from you CubsWoo. I came and you delivered. I've been debating between some jobs to pursue once I get my thief to 60 (once I return :twisted: ), amd you have boosted my passion for monk quite a bit!
 
Rappa said:
Agreed, monks are awesome. We have a monk in my static. We both have the best gear that we can (snipers, kote vs valk mask, etc) and he outdamages me most typical fights. If both his hits connect we're right about even. That's not counting his occasional kick attack. The only times I always outdamage is mid xp chain when I do a mostly Souleater'd fight. I'm hoping to get the edge on him with a hauby at lvl 59 but we'll see how that goes.
lol, we'll see about that when I get my scorpion harness and Pallas's Bracelets. :P
 
I'm not up at your levels, but I did spend a significant amount of time sitting on my ass today before finnaly giving up about half an hour ago. Screw peace, give MNKs a chance!

EDIT: I'm expecting jabs about my sub-job being the cause of this waiting. Well, now that I think about it, it probably was. Still, invites weren't pretty back with /WAR.
 
I love MNKs. I invite you as often as possible. Had an awesome JP MNK in my party last night. You guys rule. Not to mention you have the coolest gear (other than NIN).
 
Monks hit faster than thieves I've seen.. basically non-stop hitting with the best equipment^^ and more damage over time compared to the other jobs. Samurai and Dark Knight might hit hard but will most likely miss and slowly... so ya.... Monk is my favorite DD job ^^
 
Congratulations, you can hold your ground with the many other melee competing for two-three DD spots in the party. It's not like you don't get invites because people don't like Monk.

Although, of a Dark Knight, Dragoon, Monk, and Samerai... you'd be last on my list. That's because you can't open Distortion for me, but it's nothing personal.

Monks are indeed a very awesome class, and as my other melee I enjoy partying with them. Just accept that melee have it hard for invites, and for the love of god... tell me you're doing something FUN while you're LFG for that long.
 
You are correct in theory except there is 1 thing working against MNK. You have no powerful secondary weapon to skillup. For example DRK should have both Scythe and Great Sword leveled up.

Yes it's true most DRKs usually only have Scythe leveled up. Then again it's true most MNKs don't have any of the good gear that makes them competitive. At least 95% of the MNKs I've PTed with have been very disappointing. Most don't get their Kote's until like... level 55+...
And then, if you are planning on fighting a hard shell type monster, MNK is not going to be very effective. But on the reverse, if it's a softer monster MNK needs extreme gear like you have to totally blow away the other jobs.

It just seems to me that MNK, like DRG, seems to be a job that the more immature players have tended to flock to. And while there are some good DRG and MNK out there, as a party leader you try to guess as well as you can if a member is going to be any good.

Of course it's all sort of tricky business. Like last night I was in a PT as a 31 RDM with a 32 Elvaan BLM. He had a staff instead of a wand. 1 astral ring, 1 +dex ring, no morians or anything. Missing slots. Once I started eating food and he didn't, I had something like 10 more INT than him and 100 more MP. (and I am focused primarily on MND gear, that's with devotee's mitts ext).
That's the gear difference. As shown it can overcome even the job difference for something where one job is obviouisly better suited than another for damaging.
 
If you have to have a first voker in a Pt I do like Monks. I was in a good pt last night with mnk as first voker then SATA onto Nin. The mnk did his good share of damage of course, but also would first voke really well, always predictable, kept a rythem going. Don't hate on monks. I prefer two nins in SaTa purposes but its not the same damage output of course....unless you have one uber nin.
 
One question. Why must it always be that everyone has to compare to drks? -. -
 
I'd have to agree that Distortion isn't the end-all be-all skillchain. We've currently got Raging Fists closing an Impaction chain in our static, and it's badass. RF alone can do up to 500 damage, and then our BLM bursts with Burst (ironically) and tacks on another 1200 damage. Sure, some of you out there are probably thinking "At that level Distortion can burst Water 3 for less MP, blah blah blah" but I'll tell you, despite using AM our BLM has enough MP to Burst 4 out of 5 battles in the chain, and the only reason we don't burst more is most times the mob is dead from the MNK and DRK pummeling before the SC goes off.
 
I love monks, however some of the melees bitch about the skillchan MB, being a WHM all I know is I can MB with a fusion and light skillchain....
 
Taking them as they come:

Anderithe: Thanks for doing nothing more than following the stereotype. I'm going to assume you're a THF, since the only ones that bring up this argument are the same ones crying about how they can't do 30 extra damage with Distortion over Scission. For reference, a DRK can't open Distortion until 49 unless they have Great Sword leveled. If they've only done Scythe, you're screwed. WARs can't open Distortion with their A weapons. At all. Ever. Neither GAxe nor Axe can open Distortion (they can close it, but that's another story.) On average, Scission does 2-5% less damage than a simliar Distortion chain, and the MNK more than makes that up in regular strikes.

And honestly, we don't 'hold our ground.' MNKs and DRGs are the top tier. DRKs are slightly below, mostly because they seem to have much bigger accuracy problems over the rest of the melees and can/should be spending a bit of time with their spells. WAR is kind of in the same boat until they get Rampage or Raging Rush. SAM? They're skillchain enablers. Show me a SAM that's outdamaging a MNK, DRK or DRG and I'll show you a poorly equipped, horrible MNK, DRK or DRG.

Firestreak: I'd be more than happy to level Staff if there were either amazing DPS Staves (there aren't) or different skillchain possibilities (there isn't.) It'd just be a slower, less skilled weapon that deals less damage. I'll probably skill it for fun eventually, though.

And I agree MNK has the stigma of being a 'noob' job. Anyone with /party Boost/Dodge/Focus/Berserk/etc macros needs to be shot.point-blank in the face. For me, at least, inobtrusive macros are the order of the day.

Tyrath: Nothing personal against DRKs, I just see most of the forum conversations (especially on Alla) being a DRK vs. MNK thing. Lots of Ballista videos and whatnot.
 
Firestreak said:
You are correct in theory except there is 1 thing working against MNK. You have no powerful secondary weapon to skillup. For example DRK should have both Scythe and Great Sword leveled up.

Yes it's true most DRKs usually only have Scythe leveled up. Then again it's true most MNKs don't have any of the good gear that makes them competitive. At least 95% of the MNKs I've PTed with have been very disappointing. Most don't get their Kote's until like... level 55+...
And then, if you are planning on fighting a hard shell type monster, MNK is not going to be very effective. But on the reverse, if it's a softer monster MNK needs extreme gear like you have to totally blow away the other jobs.

It just seems to me that MNK, like DRG, seems to be a job that the more immature players have tended to flock to. And while there are some good DRG and MNK out there, as a party leader you try to guess as well as you can if a member is going to be any good.

Of course it's all sort of tricky business. Like last night I was in a PT as a 31 RDM with a 32 Elvaan BLM. He had a staff instead of a wand. 1 astral ring, 1 +dex ring, no morians or anything. Missing slots. Once I started eating food and he didn't, I had something like 10 more INT than him and 100 more MP. (and I am focused primarily on MND gear, that's with devotee's mitts ext).
That's the gear difference. As shown it can overcome even the job difference for something where one job is obviouisly better suited than another for damaging.

please dont compare MNKs to DRG... ty
 
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