Absolution -- Dynamis Zone Sniping

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Thus, the point. Of course you're not gonna turn your buddy in if he stole a TV. Guess what, you're still in legal shit if he gets caught and you knew about it/used the TV.


No shit sherlock? My point being that i wouldnt cry about it and call it unfair that im in trouble, unlike kayu who dislikes being called a botter for hanging with botters.
 
No shit sherlock? My point being that i wouldnt cry about it and call it unfair that im in trouble, unlike kayu who dislikes being called a botter for hanging with botters.

I know. I was reinforcing what you said with my post <,<
 
One day SE will actually pay attention to Dragon's aery, find a way to detect who used what bot, go through the logs like what they did for salvage/nyzul and Bam! To me, I just think that they don't care at all like they didn't care about the RMT. When salvage dupes were found out everyone said they wouldn't be able to detect it and 500 relics vanished 1 month later.
 
One day SE will actually pay attention to Dragon's aery, find a way to detect who used what bot, go through the logs like what they did for salvage/nyzul and Bam! To me, I just think that they don't care at all like they didn't care about the RMT. When salvage dupes were found out everyone said they wouldn't be able to detect it and 500 relics vanished 1 month later.
Honestly I don't think they will see SE cares when you mess up there balance world by doing something the would not be possible had you not done it. Flee hacking, pos hacking, duping. Bots like it or not does not follow under that catagory.
 
I'm not exactly sure where you're going with this.

You said something about moralfag, as if I was in a moral debate with you. I replied that early on I stated the exact opposite. Merely reemphasized/clarified my point.

There is a bot that is better than NASA, and my LS uses it. It's called k(A)v3 and has ran garbage NASA linkshells off of Cerberus twice. However, it is not for sale, so the point still stands. Regardless, your botting being self defeating delusion still makes no sense. This game is not singularly platformed for PC. A bot will beat any PS2/Xbox spamming dickwad nine times out of ten, so botting still gives you an advantage.

Actually...this basically proves my point. It isn't as if everyone has to do it. It merely can not be exclusive totally. Once a second or third group starts using a bot the effectiveness starts to disappear. That is until a better bot is released and the process happens over again. The only way to get out of the dilemma is that a single bot is used by one group that will always be better than all other possible bots and it will always be exclusive. At that point the "game" (referring to game theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory) is over and you are able to reap the most benefits by botting. But, obviously FFXI is iterated constantly and everyday - it is a given that the greatest benefits in this since are to cooperate.

I guess maybe, yes, if there were a free bot (lol) capable of claiming mobs using the packet injection method, everyone used it, it worked on ps2 and 360, and everyone who did decide to use it set it up correctly, then botting would in fact be self defeating. Until then, what you're trying to say is coming off rather hazy.

Not really, I mean even if the bot is pricey (in the thousands) I think it is pretty obvious from NASA's experience that multiple shells would buy it. See what I said above - not everyone has to be using the bot, just some of your competition because at that point it boils down to some skill and a lot of luck if you get the claim since the same bot is being run.


If you re-read my post, I was clearly not talking to you. It was my last jab at bigbroon, seeing how he has an IQ at or below room temperature.

I was clearly pointing out that your insult to bigbroon could be easily turned and applied to yourself because you fail at reading.


There's not really an outline. Set up bot the bot correctly, and SE has no anti-botting countermeasures. There's no way(currently) that they can detect a bot. I don't know the exact logistics of how it works, but all I know is that it does, and they can only detect it if you set it up before the camp, in which case your bot sends claiming packets to a dead mob. That can't happen in the game, because it's like trying to cast on a dead mob. SE just has an auto 3 day script for that type of action.

Kthx. Just want to know if SE did anti-botting countermeasures if it could detect.


I do not see the point. Besides this being retardedly off of the topic I originally came to discuss, this is really not a defense nor an offense. If botting doesn't enhance your claim rate, even with lolFFXIAPP, you're doing it wrong. I feel like I'm being redundant: when set up correctly it WILL enhance your claim rate.

At this point it isn't a defense or offense...because I agreed. So we don't have to talk about it anymore.

You know exactly what I meant.
People like to attach botting to something you are lacking in real life, socially, emotionally, physically, etc. You're always the "loser living in your mom's basement with no life" so you bot in order to feel better about yourself. I don't need to feel better about myself. I don't want to go into how super special awesome great job! my life is, but I can assure you I am not suffering from a Napoleon Syndrome and using a bot to make myself feel better.

Why do you like talking about it so much then?

How was that, bro?

Better with occasional whoosh.

Sevv said:
Wow you know up until the Amerie (sp, sorry I didn't go back and look how to spell your name), there was a post in our forums to knock the shit off. People were told to stop posting stupid drama filled posts on any forums. The majority minus one person followed it. You bring my name into this when I have done nothing but try to connect with people on Quetz in the non-asshole behavior. You bring my name into reporting and you personally crossed a line with me. My sister Svetlanna has never botted and never will, she is in the linkshell to play with me, when she is not in school. I have met some nice people here on a personal level, but this again is making me want to just take a step back from coming to any type of agreement with the community. When I lead, any dynamis event when leaders have real life events I followed the calender to stop drama. I don't talk shit in say or tell, nor have attacked anyone personally unless first attacked. Sorry Quetz but I am done trying to stop any shit, since it has done nothing but get me reported by people.

Then there must be like a giant gap between you and the rest of your shell in "trying to connect with people on Quetz".

On a personal level, I am sure not everyone in Absolution is bad or stupid or unskilled. But, as a native Quetz person, as I said on BG a long time ago, we tend to be pretty jaded about server transfer LS's. Moreover, once they come to the server build a reputation for botting and in general holier-than-thou while recruiting some of the servers famous trash would you expect anything less than some backlash? I think the key to cooperation you seek is being able to look at yourself through the eyes of others, or at least try to.

Point being once again don't stop trying to cooperate, because cooperation is in your own interest in the long term. The question is do you want to be around for the long-term or just be like every other transfer shell.
 
Okay, let me ask something.

I got banned this morning(unbanned now, SE are fucking morons) and my heart sank. It was one of the shittiest feelings I ever felt. I put so much time into making my char and I have made so many friendships that losing them would be the worst. Now, I use windower and I know it's bannable but I don't think anyone has been banned for Windower use. Now botting people have been banned and continue to get banned. It may be just me but why would anyone risk losing all that time spent over a few claimed mobs?
 
Okay, let me ask something.

I got banned this morning(unbanned now, SE are fucking morons) and my heart sank. It was one of the shittiest feelings I ever felt. I put so much time into making my char and I have made so many friendships that losing them would be the worst. Now, I use windower and I know it's bannable but I don't think anyone has been banned for Windower use. Now botting people have been banned and continue to get banned. It may be just me but why would anyone risk losing all that time spent over a few claimed mobs?

If they ever ban people for windower it probably wont be worth playing the game anymore anyway. I've tried going back to playing w/o and the game just sucks.

I remember when I got my 72 hr ban for doing dumb cheating crap 2+ years ago, it was the worst feeling... like I was going to throw up, lesson learned and have never done that crap again out of pure fear that all the work I put into my account and the friendships I have would be lost in an instant.
 
It may be just me but why would anyone risk losing all that time spent over a few claimed mobs?

No emotional connection to other players/relationships, even if their excuse is "you aren't real" they obviously cannot make the connection that the person playing is. They get banned, they will either buy another account and pick up where they left off, or they will move on to infest another game.

I've never been banned/temp banned, I played on PS2 for 95% of my FFXI "career" but I know I would have felt really shitty if I had been banned even for something like windower.

Most of these people are sociopaths, they don't give a crap about anyone but themselves.
 
Okay, let me ask something.

I got banned this morning(unbanned now, SE are fucking morons) and my heart sank. It was one of the shittiest feelings I ever felt. I put so much time into making my char and I have made so many friendships that losing them would be the worst. Now, I use windower and I know it's bannable but I don't think anyone has been banned for Windower use. Now botting people have been banned and continue to get banned. It may be just me but why would anyone risk losing all that time spent over a few claimed mobs?

Because there is no risk. If you are smart enough to read a readme, you are smart enough to start a bot and not risk your account. This is the division between people who bot and don't bot, I am taking a calculated risk daily and it's been paying off for two+ years.

@Mattaru: I'm about to leave to go vacation. If this thread is still open when I get back I will humor you with another lengthy reply.
 
ps.

One day SE will actually pay attention to Dragon's aery, find a way to detect who used what bot, go through the logs like what they did for salvage/nyzul and Bam! To me, I just think that they don't care at all like they didn't care about the RMT. When salvage dupes were found out everyone said they wouldn't be able to detect it and 500 relics vanished 1 month later.

lol
Your naivety is precious. The difference between actually duplicating drops and botting, is that duplicating (and tripling in the salvage case if you had 6+) leaves such a traceable stain in the logs of the game that it takes little to no effort to distinguish who broke the rules. It's like a giant blood stain at the scene of the crime. The people who said they couldn't detect it clearly had no idea what they were talking about, because SE had a track record for banning that sort of stuff. A great example is the Barone NPC in Tavnazian Safehold.

Botting is just so vastly different than duplicating items.
 
He's referring to this Q&A from Allakhazam.

Allakhazam.com: This is kind of an old news question, but a lot of people still complain that there is heavy use of bots and cheating to get king claims. Can we expect to ever see any changes to the way they are spawned, frequency of spawns, anything like that to try to deter the botting and cheating that goes on?

How do you know these people use tools? On our side, all we really have to work with is the logs and so if there's a tool being used and nothing shows up in the log, then there's really no way we can confirm it, even if a person calls up a GM and says this person is using a tool, Fafnir just "popped purple", we have no way to confirm that on the log side. So... how do you really know they are using tools?

Follow-up: Some people believe that if the spawns were increased there might be less pressure on people to resort to illegal means to get these claims. Is that a philosophy that you agree with or do you think that it's just got to work itself out?

Not really sure... more people might just use tools to get more claims. The tools that show up in the log would be the worst kind of tool, flee tools, warp tools, but if it's something that doesn't show up in the log like claim bots, how do you really know that they're using these tools? Are you sure? How can you be sure? That's the problem.

(Translator comment) Of course it's just a suspicion, right? Of course if there are dozens of people and one person pulls it he's botting, right?

If it's something that people would incessantly raise, something that came to the forefront of discussion constantly then of course it would be a problem that we have to address. But the fact that we're working from the logs and it's something that doesn't show that if we were to take steps then it would be very difficult, we'd have to think of a different approach to solve non-log related bots. Matt's job is to gather all the voices and opinions and get them to us in an orderly fashion.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/wiki/Fan_Festival_2008_Developer_Q&A

Really, until SE pulls their head out of their ass, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about claim bots. I always wondered why the STF posted players banned due to illegal methods of claiming mobs. I suppose some methods are undetectable, like this article states.

It seems there's no risk at the moment.
 
Right. The Salvage duping left very obvious chatlog info that could be verified. If the log reads...

The Qiqirn Treasure Hunter drops a Macha's Coat.

Then five minutes later you see...

Bigbossman obtains a Macha's Coat.
Sidvicious obtains a Macha's Coat.
Hulkhogan obtains a Macha's Coat.

That's something that they can prove. Your ability to target a mob and attempt to claim it quickly isn't really something that they can see.
 
Right. The Salvage duping left very obvious chatlog info that could be verified. If the log reads...

The Qiqirn Treasure Hunter drops a Macha's Coat.

Then five minutes later you see...

Bigbossman obtains a Macha's Coat.
Sidvicious obtains a Macha's Coat.
Hulkhogan obtains a Macha's Coat.

That's something that they can prove. Your ability to target a mob and attempt to claim it quickly isn't really something that they can see.

The dupers would split into 3 parties so I'm unsure if you could actually see what people outside your alliance get. I'm just assuming that they matched the logs of all the people presents (or maybe there is one big log that contain all of the info, i'm not sure how that works ).


I've read that interview too and was pretty pissed that they didn't want to stop botters (that's besically what they say). Instead they nerfed demon's gil that no rmt would be able to do since you needed a PL& a thf with decent gear for it to be worth. I was actually surprised with their fast reaction for salvage dupes ; I'm just assuming a lot of people bitched and that people don't care to report(in the suggestion box) botting HNMs anymore... I mean I bet most angry people would send reports on X or Y person botting but what would actuallly change things is bitching about the system in general. They could easily alter the way HNMs pop so that the player doesn't see any change but from the game point of view it does something (like changing mob ID randomly or something ?). They just don't care, so bitch/suggest on pol.
 
then again you bring a point up, if no ones cares for your oppinion, who thinks anyone cares about yours?
if someone cares about me its fucking me and some people that know me(i hope), if some words will at least lead me to the oposite then why no write it, doesnt really matter on how most people see me or see my ls, if a few think otherwise then it was all worth it, so even if most of ls's on this server think we are shit, it doesnt really matter how they cry, shit will keep getting claimed and killed by the same ls you are bitching from 60 pages now, as you say at worst i bot, at best i condone or dont give a fuck about it, in the end who is the one benefiting from those? when SE dont ban anyone you will cry and bitch more about, why? because karma didnt hit the ls that was bad, when we know bad or good ls's are relative to the person thinking about them.

Then stop posting if others' opinions don't matter to you. I'm just publicly stating that I think you and your gimp LS is full of shitbags because I have justifiable cause (ahem, the original thread topic). If it doesn't matter to you, just go about your business and ignore the growing list of people who concur.
 
You get pissed cause you didn't claim serket (of all nms) so you gm them come now have alittle more sportsmanship. Not every claim is botted quit assuming they are more then half the claims they gotten is because they have no other shell even camping or not enough to properly claim. I know use to be on the other side and is reason I now with this shell because they do Everything and not just what the leaders of the shell need or want to do. Maybe if quit crying and actually camp the mobs you will see that you can claim hnm. (ask sativia they claimed fafnir just yesterday) When I was in dez we claim many time over absolution when they decided to camp them. "They are botting" is such a cope out, it a excuse to fall on when you don't claim. Maybe just maybe if go to a camp set down all your setting have a nice alliance of people not on internet looking at your porn pages and blog-ey-de-blogs, twittey pages, and face books getting the right tods and pushing little macro button at the right time you will claim sometimes, connection and computer/ps2 spawn point be willing. Plz for love of all that holy stop confusing claiming with skill. Claiming is just mathamatical probability is no skill there just much skill in black jack.

Usually it annoys me when people complain about grammar, but sweet Jesus that really did take me an age to read. I glanced down at your flag to see which far-off country you're from...
 
Usually it annoys me when people complain about grammar, but sweet Jesus that really did take me an age to read. I glanced down at your flag to see which far-off country you're from...

Welcome to QCDN. No, we don't know what he says either.
 
Usually it annoys me when people complain about grammar, but sweet Jesus that really did take me an age to read. I glanced down at your flag to see which far-off country you're from...
ill some it up quit whining, learn play the game and you will claim the mob, and there no skill in claiming.
 
ill some it up quit whining, learn play the game and you will claim the mob, and there no skill in claiming.
correction try and you will claim, don't assume you won't claim.
 
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