Absolution = Vanquished? O.o

Newsflash: it never mattered that Absolution came along with NASA. It gave them a marginal advantage at a very small spectrum of HNMs.

They didn't need their cherry picker to grab the low hanging fruit. The bigger issue was that no shell could compete with them in terms of camping. No one else sent holding parties to KV, Tiamat, Cerb, Khim, etc.
 
Newsflash: it never mattered that Absolution came along with NASA. It gave them a marginal advantage at a very small spectrum of HNMs.

They didn't need their cherry picker to grab the low hanging fruit. The bigger issue was that no shell could compete with them in terms of camping. No one else sent holding parties to KV, Tiamat, Cerb, Khim, etc.

Are you fucking kidding me with this? Aura would sit at Tia, Cerb, Khim with atleast an alliance at all times. Before Aura started doing this Absolution used to just have a mule there and when it popped we would race. With KV we also used to just have one person there who could hold and kite it until we got there.
 
Only responding to this really because I am a Veteran of this server.

For some of us honestly the content is dead. All those shells you mentioned, all the things that Absolution and Aura are claiming have been done about 1000 times. Granted there are things here and there I am positive a lot of people I know in my shell want to see from HNM's however, when you know that the chances of you beating a program is .05% why subject people to that? 98% of the Kings drops, drop in other aspects of the game. No real major fuss there.

Of course it's not just Absolution that would be silly to assume considering. I don't doubt it's all across the game not just this server, and you can have all the members in the world but realize it only takes just one person to have the program to give those 50 people or so the advantage.

At this stage of the game, I still go out and camp but am I going to kill myself? Doubted. The only drama I have ever seen occur realistically is when people know they're cheating and yet either A deny it, B holler they are the bomb and deny knowing full blown well people have talked about it and it has leaked that you have the upper hand, or my personal favorite Make it sound like it's "okay". That's the only time I can honestly see people getting all bent out of shape.

For the veterans of this server who still go out and give it their all, if they were worried they would have just quit or transferred like some have by now because as much energy as it takes to bitch, you can put that into doing other things. Most of the real bitching is done by people who haven't really been on this server that long. Majority of the real Vets have changed servers to explore and just relax. If you notice the shit talking that used to occur in DA or Aspid between the Veteran HNM Shells lol doesn't happen! Why? Well I will let you figure that one out.

I don't care that they changed their name and to be honest the speculation as to why they did ... well maybe ask one the members? Maybe you'll get an honest answer. "Zebra's don't change stripes." Is what I think the whole thread was about to begin with which honestly like you said... who gives a shit. They could change their names to "STFU" and guess what, people are still going to speculate and some will still join the shell knowing what they know then you get post like these types of flames because some people just generally don't like them period and it has various other factors. Outside of the "botting" they have done some other things to get under people's skin. (i.e. Dynamis Zone Swiping) Granted they are right why would they need to follow QCDN. That's their business, however it came across as a complete disrespect to the QCDN community and since they speak english we can bitch at them. (lol) I highly doubt they give two flying fucks what you say here.

Do I care that they do what they do? Not particularly. It's disheartening that people aren't the same I agree with that much. I may not agree with it, however there's nothing to cry over really at least not from my perspective because everything they are doing has been done it's nothing new. Now when they kill something major that are not Kings, then I will perhaps change my thought of Sportsmenship vs. Programs. Then again, I'm old-fashion, believe me when I say I actually miss Kaizen and Integral because I miss the sportsmenship and nothing more.
Funny seem like a year and half ago your shell was the one everyone was talking about. so obviously a zebra can change there stripes or atleast cover them up.

Newsflash: it never mattered that Absolution came along with NASA. It gave them a marginal advantage at a very small spectrum of HNMs.

They didn't need their cherry picker to grab the low hanging fruit. The bigger issue was that no shell could compete with them in terms of camping. No one else sent holding parties to KV, Tiamat, Cerb, Khim, etc.
Aurons right aura started that not us.
 
You know if Renze and his botting buddies would of just stayed in Their little aery, botting stuff that so much of us don't give a shit about, nobody would care that they even exist. But they didn't they went out and spat in the face of the whole fucking server when they started sniping dynamis zones. This is the only reason that 98% hates absolution oh I'm sorry vanquished because they brought all this attention on themselves.
 
You know if Renze and his botting buddies would of just stayed in Their little aery, botting stuff that so much of us don't give a shit about, nobody would care that they even exist. But they didn't they went out and spat in the face of the whole fucking server when they started sniping dynamis zones. This is the only reason that 98% hates absolution oh I'm sorry vanquished because they brought all this attention on themselves.
Didn't know everyone did dynamis on saturday dang maybe you should pick a less crowed day. From day 1 of this server there always been a villian shell went from the jp shells> JDA> OH > perse > JDA v2 > dez > WBC > pp > abso there all ways 1 shell everyone talk about and sure i didn't even get them all.
 
Funny seem like a year and half ago your shell was the one everyone was talking about. so obviously a zebra can change there stripes or atleast cover them up.

Aurons right aura started that not us.

I knew you were coming was just a matter of time. :biggrin: Everybody ragging on Absolution so lets turn the attention to someone who isn't on bad terms with you and slightly annoy the leader. Couldn't just leave it for what it was right? There is nothing to cover up the people who were accused/busted of what ever are no long part of Perseverance better yet it was an entirely different leadership at that time. Believe you me had it been my call, I wouldn't have been so nice about it. Personally I feel if you cheat you need to go. I don't want to be associated with hosting cheaters. It's not about changing stripes or covering it up. It's about doing what's right. Sorry the person your quoting was not in a position to make those types of decisions previously. But of course stir up some old shit dirt, because that's a way to keep the lines of communication open.:tup:
 
Ok, define cheating then, because from how I see it, using windower itself is cheating. In fact (and I know most people will disagree with this), I myself see windower as being a larger cheat then a bot to claim a mob.
 
You're really going to go there? Okay I can obviously see everything I am trying to say is going to fly right over the top of heads. Of course compare an aid like windower to a bot... That just sounds like a cop out. i.e. I used windower and you use a bot so same difference? How foolish. Wrap it up in sugar all you like windower is a minor aid it doesn't aid in the claiming of anything at least I don't think so but I'm done so you win I guess. I don't care about the botting or windower I just was making a comment that got turned into explain cheating. You're a big boy, when you do something and you know it's just flat out wrong to eliminate any competition with a bot and you know it's wrong in the pit of your stomach that's cheating and lying. You can apply that to just about anything. Justifying a bot versus windower? Come on...
 
The difference between you and I is that I accept the fact that botting, like using windower, is cheating. I know it, and it no longer bothers me. When I first started endgame, the first 9 months of camping for me I hated because of the botters, I realized SE would do nothing about them, so instead of just sitting there and whining day in and day out about not being able to claim I did something about it.

Definition of cheating - Cheating in video games involves a player of a video game creating an advantage beyond the bounds of normal gameplay, usually to make the game easier. Cheats include advantages such as invulnerability ("God mode") or an infinite amount of some resource such as ammunition. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating_(video_games)

If you want to sit back and pretend that by using windower you're not actually cheating by all means do so, but don't come here to try and save face by saying it's not. That first part of the definition fits windower to a tee.
 
He who fights tyrants must take care lest he himself become a tyrant.

That said, Nogara's accepted what he's doing is "wrong" and there are only two sides to the fence: 3rd party programs are cheating, but lumping all crimes into the same category puts petty theft on the level of Grand Theft Auto.

Nogara's place of comfort is different than the people who run Windower. In the strictest sense, everyone who uses a 3rd is a "cheater." People who use fishbots to fish things they can catch ordinarily are cheaters. People who look at the tp/mp of other players are cheaters. People who use distance to determine AoE range are cheaters. The question comes down to what the majority says is okay.
 
Save face? *sigh* For the first 4 years of my gaming I played on PS2 I had no choice but to play on PC after that because the PS2 exploded literally. There's no whining or complaining on this end and I said that in my very first post that I honestly don't care about it anymore. Okay wonderful you classify window as a cheat and the definition of cheating is classified on wiki. I guess perhaps I am out of my league here (lol). I don't have any beefs with you people, you cheat wonderful. But, I have nothing to save face for go back and read my very first post. I'm not trying to debate this lol honestly I'm not. Don't know what you're expecting here.
 
techinally windower it self isn't a cheat it is all the add on, most bots come with your flee tools, pop alarms w/o widescan, gm tool etc etc.
 
unable to edit but the big difference I would wager is did these other "evil" shells as people labeled them attempt to mpk when they couldn't clam two days in a row it honestly is sad.
 
You tried it the other week to >.> And you know it was an individual thing, can't contorl everyone at all times.
 
You tried it the other week to >.> And you know it was an individual thing, can't contorl everyone at all times.

It is ok ara still <3 you and i got trap on bg so can ignore this one lol.
 
If you want to sit back and pretend that by using windower you're not actually cheating by all means do so, but don't come here to try and save face by saying it's not. That first part of the definition fits windower to a tee.

Does windower confer advantages? Yes.

That doesn't necessarily make it cheating.

Abstract the discussion for a moment and think about what we consider cheating in say... sports.

We don't want the NBA finals rigged (assume that they aren't) because we want to see a competition. Things that are irrelevant to the competition are disregarded such as the colors of uniforms. Tools that enhance the competition but preserve its essential nature as a competition are tolerated. Like shoes for instance. The NBA doesn't require every player to wear the same brand of shoes, although we can imagine some shoes are designed differently.

But things that defeat the nature of the competition and make it more about the tools than the athletes' natural talents or their work, like steroids or bribing officials, are frowned upon.

The distinction lies in the type of advantage and whether it preserves the nature of competition.

Botting is like using steroids. Steroids makes it so that sports are no longer about the wonders of a naturally gifted athlete or the hard work the athletes put in to practice. It's about who's using the best and most drugs. Who's oiling the right wheels. It takes the focus off the purpose of the game.

In the same way, botting removes the need to put effort and dedication into the game. Be it claims or fishing or crafting, fuzz's programs removed the essential element of the player interacting in the game and investing time into it.

Claiming should be about the dedication to show up to windows with the most people (yes it doesn't take skill to claim but it makes sense that shells with more people should claim more than shells that jerk around during the windows; the ability to claim AFK rewards non-effort; and if we wanted to make it about skill, then for the record, I am all for an open MPK Aery where you need to prove you are skilled by holding onto your Fafnir while fighting aggro). I think the point of camping is to put the hours in to watch KV/Khim/Cerb/Tiamat manually -- being willing to dedicate your time during the windows to watch them for hours on end for those drops, take shifts with other members, and have alliances or hold parties on call. That's what the "dedication" and "drive" of an End Game LS is supposed to be, what standing atop of the End Game scene is supposed to mean.

(And I'm not saying this kind of crazed fanaticism is how everyone should approach the game, I'm merely stating that if you want to talk about playing at the highest levels by doing End Game then you should be playing at the highest levels -- with all attendant blood, sweat, and tears -- and not paying fuzz his arms race money so you can let App play for you)

Similarly crafting and fishing should reward those who put in the time and effort to craft and fish... not those who paid fuzz so they could automate it.

There are parts of Windower that are cheating imo. Cancel is one of them. It removes the need for a tank to be able to count shadows and cancel Ni manually.

But for the most part Windower does not confer advantages that remove the importance of skill, natural talent, experience, or dedication.
 
I knew you were coming was just a matter of time. :biggrin: Everybody ragging on Absolution so lets turn the attention to someone who isn't on bad terms with you and slightly annoy the leader. Couldn't just leave it for what it was right? There is nothing to cover up the people who were accused/busted of what ever are no long part of Perseverance better yet it was an entirely different leadership at that time. Believe you me had it been my call, I wouldn't have been so nice about it. Personally I feel if you cheat you need to go. I don't want to be associated with hosting cheaters. It's not about changing stripes or covering it up. It's about doing what's right. Sorry the person your quoting was not in a position to make those types of decisions previously. But of course stir up some old shit dirt, because that's a way to keep the lines of communication open.:tup:
you misunderstand my attention, I have nothing against you or your but if your going preach to us when your past was not that churchly clean yourself. You still have the person that cause most the uproar back then. You was in the shell when it was in it prime. Yet now that ffxiap is gone and majority of your members have there gear so you can't compete so you judge.
 
Does windower confer advantages? Yes.

That doesn't necessarily make it cheating.

Abstract the discussion for a moment and think about what we consider cheating in say... sports.

We don't want the NBA finals rigged (assume that they aren't) because we want to see a competition. Things that are irrelevant to the competition are disregarded such as the colors of uniforms. Tools that enhance the competition but preserve its essential nature as a competition are tolerated. Like shoes for instance. The NBA doesn't require every player to wear the same brand of shoes, although we can imagine some shoes are designed differently.

But things that defeat the nature of the competition and make it more about the tools than the athletes' natural talents or their work, like steroids or bribing officials, are frowned upon.

The distinction lies in the type of advantage and whether it preserves the nature of competition.

Botting is like using steroids. Steroids makes it so that sports are no longer about the wonders of a naturally gifted athlete or the hard work the athletes put in to practice. It's about who's using the best and most drugs. Who's oiling the right wheels. It takes the focus off the purpose of the game.

In the same way, botting removes the need to put effort and dedication into the game. Be it claims or fishing or crafting, fuzz's programs removed the essential element of the player interacting in the game and investing time into it.

Claiming should be about the dedication to show up to windows with the most people (yes it doesn't take skill to claim but it makes sense that shells with more people should claim more than shells that jerk around during the windows; the ability to claim AFK rewards non-effort; and if we wanted to make it about skill, then for the record, I am all for an open MPK Aery where you need to prove you are skilled by holding onto your Fafnir while fighting aggro). I think the point of camping is to put the hours in to watch KV/Khim/Cerb/Tiamat manually -- being willing to dedicate your time during the windows to watch them for hours on end for those drops, take shifts with other members, and have alliances or hold parties on call. That's what the "dedication" and "drive" of an End Game LS is supposed to be, what standing atop of the End Game scene is supposed to mean.

(And I'm not saying this kind of crazed fanaticism is how everyone should approach the game, I'm merely stating that if you want to talk about playing at the highest levels by doing End Game then you should be playing at the highest levels -- with all attendant blood, sweat, and tears -- and not paying fuzz his arms race money so you can let App play for you)

Similarly crafting and fishing should reward those who put in the time and effort to craft and fish... not those who paid fuzz so they could automate it.

There are parts of Windower that are cheating imo. Cancel is one of them. It removes the need for a tank to be able to count shadows and cancel Ni manually.

But for the most part Windower does not confer advantages that remove the importance of skill, natural talent, experience, or dedication.
Have you been in the aery lately still quite a series in there. If it was not bots it would be pc connections and the biggest processor specs. Also you do realize that the person still have to fight the mob and has to be at his pc and it not a garenteed claim. Only thing a claim bot does is hit a macro a certain intervial, simialar to that of spellcast does for equipment. If anything it equalizes your chances to compete aginst the quad core high ram gaming computers with t1 dedicted lines out there that sees a mob as soon as it pops. Also who uses bots on outland kings? Those are hold party or mule camped, and everyone run once it spawn normally only time there not is if a opposing shell decide to alliance camp.
 
you misunderstand my attention, I have nothing against you or your but if your going preach to us when your past was not that churchly clean yourself. You still have the person that cause most the uproar back then. You was in the shell when it was in it prime. Yet now that ffxiap is gone and majority of your members have there gear so you can't compete so you judge.

What preaching? Judging? Are you Blind? I am in no position to do any of those things you listed simply because it's not needed at this stage of the game. I was present and I am more then aware of all the BS. I specifically said I don't care about your doings granted I may not agree with it AND said what you do is your business. I've grown tired of defending myself so not touching on it anymore. I could just about imagine all the things you have heard about my past but not once have you ever stopped to talk to me about it because the gossip was so much fucking better. Two tears in a bucket ... fuck it.

You've seen us at camps. You've seen us out there but because you know that the chances of us claiming vs Absolution and Aura... wait that means you must know we don't stand a chance in hell if the idea is no one can compete. OR better yet that you absolutely have the upper hand well then I guess you'd be right we can't compete because I don't want to compete that way. The only thing that must be common in both shells is that the only people you can compete with is each other. Like I said before for most of us the content is dead. I previously stated I will not put people through that unwillingly. You call it preaching but preaching would sound like "You are all bad people and you will burn in hell... amen" I really hope nothing I said sounded like that because if it does then I will need to retire.


I knew where this was going previously and of course thought I could speak freely without ending up on the defensive or being attacked but then it wouldn't be the flameboard would it. Carry on I'm done responding.
 
Sevv you are a tard. And don't say you love ara you dbag. Anyway's that topic on bg was fail lol.
 
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