Absolution = Vanquished? O.o

[Hobobob]

That's a horrible analogy Gredival. If you wanna use real life analogies here's one for you.

Your married with a wife, botting would be like cheating on her by sleeping with another woman, using windower would be like just making it with another woman. Either way, I bet if you asked your wife she'd still consider them both cheating.

The fact that windower almost plays the game for you and gives you most unfair advantages over people whithout windower is what makes it cheating. I wasn't aware that Xbox/PS2 users could see through walls in Nyzul Isle and such to find mobs easier. I wasn't aware that Xbox/PS2 auto-detected weather conditions and equipped the appropriate gear for you. Going beyond even windower into APRadar and such which is a generally accepted tool as well, allowing you to find mobs making solo/duo ENM's possible now, giving advantages over those who don't have access to them. Bottom line is it's cheating, and you're being hypocritical if you're pointing a finger at me for one thing while doing another. You're trying to downplay the advantages windower gives you way too much, when the reality is windower is a cheat.

 

[Hobobob]

That's a horrible analogy Gredival. If you wanna use real life analogies here's one for you.

Your married with a wife, botting would be like cheating on her by sleeping with another woman, using windower would be like just making out with another woman. Either way, I bet if you asked your wife she'd still consider them both cheating.

*

edited

 

[Raesvelg]

You're confusing windower with the associated plugins.

 

[Lyall]

I'm not sure what the base Windower actually does for you, but just a few things:

Does anyone who fights Odin have someone who calls out his hp% so you know when to pull damage off? I know I personally can't see percentages (since I don't run Windower) but I've been told a great number of times to "pull off damage at X%" or "start the skillchain at Y%" or "Stand at X' or else you'll get hit by his AoE."

Just so you know, when playing on an official Windowed screen without the dewdads, 73% and 68% look a lot alike. Distances? I judge distance by standing behind the other mages. You might say that Windower gives only a small advantage, like a more comfortable shoe, but I say its like playing while being the only player allowed to see shot clock, time remaining and seeing the score.

Mind you I don't know if the plain-vanilla windower lets you do anything outside of playing on a not-fullscreen mode, but no one I know (anywhere, probably) uses the Windower without some plug-ins. If they just wanted to play on a not-fullscreen, there's an official option for that now.

Also, a Windower debate in 2009? Really, guys? :biggrin:

 

[bigbroon]

Ok, define cheating then, because from how I see it, using windower itself is cheating. In fact (and I know most people will disagree with this), I myself see windower as being a larger cheat then a bot to claim a mob.

AHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Christ, you're a fucking moron. If I thought you actually believed that, you'd be off the scale on my moronometer. Right now, you're pushing it close. Just shut the fuck up, seriously. Stop embarassing yourself. Shut the fuck up. Or don't, and provide me with laughs like the one I just had, every day! Either way, it's entertaining.

I'm on xbox, so I can't, even if I wanted to, use windower. I know a shit-ton of people who do, and while it doesn't play by the rules, it's real-world equivalent would be something like using file-sharing programs and illegal music/movie downloads - not right, but not the most harmful thing. Botting is more along the lines of shoplifting and (here's a lol for you, since you so generously provided me with one) bank robbery.

Alas, nobody's comments will ever have an effect on the miniscule brains inhabiting your heads. Auronx said people should be grateful to Absolution for bringing SMN burns to this server. I'm grateful to Absolution for 1 thing: it highlighted to me the people who I previously thought to be good all-round people (Auronx, Alastor), and showed just how much persuasion they took to become pieces of shit like yourself. And for that, I thank you. For everything else, I despise you.

 

[jyakotsu]

AHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Christ, you're a fucking moron. If I thought you actually believed that, you'd be off the scale on my moronometer. Right now, you're pushing it close. Just shut the fuck up, seriously. Stop embarassing yourself. Shut the fuck up. Or don't, and provide me with laughs like the one I just had, every day! Either way, it's entertaining.

I'm on xbox, so I can't, even if I wanted to, use windower. I know a shit-ton of people who do, and while it doesn't play by the rules, it's real-world equivalent would be something like using file-sharing programs and illegal music/movie downloads - not right, but not the most harmful thing. Botting is more along the lines of shoplifting and (here's a lol for you, since you so generously provided me with one) bank robbery.

Alas, nobody's comments will ever have an effect on the miniscule brains inhabiting your heads. Auronx said people should be grateful to Absolution for bringing SMN burns to this server. I'm grateful to Absolution for 1 thing: it highlighted to me the people who I previously thought to be good all-round people (Auronx, Alastor), and showed just how much persuasion they took to become pieces of shit like yourself. And for that, I thank you. For everything else, I despise you.

Did you have to use shit ton and fuck every other word? It made my head hurt.

I hate to break it to you but using anything not authorized by SE in this game is cheating. They even said that using a windower not made by SE is breaching ToS. They just haven't done anything about it.

Granted what he said Boting> windower is retarded. The point is that don't make it sound like those that use windower aren't cheating. I myself used it for a year, and afterwards went to SE's windower... I can tell you first hand it is a huge advantage to those that don't have it.

 

[Nicholette]

I think windower is sorta cheating, unfortunately the way the game is made it's a necessary evil. I cannot play comfortably without TP party, distance plugin, and scripts, which is all I use. I doubt anyone who uses windower shuts off those plugins or doesnt use scripts. If they perma broke it I would 100% quit the game.

 

[jyakotsu]

Did you have to use shit ton and fuck every other word? It made my head hurt.

I hate to break it to you but using anything not authorized by SE in this game is cheating. They even said that using a windower not made by SE is breaching ToS. They just haven't done anything about it.

Granted what he said Boting> windower is retarded. The point is that don't make it sound like those that use windower aren't cheating. I myself used it for a year, and afterwards went to SE's windower... I can tell you first hand it is a huge advantage to those that don't have it.

*adding on*

You are making an analogy that has no relavence to the subject matter.

 

[bigbroon]

Did you have to use shit ton and fuck every other word? It made my head hurt.

I hate to break it to you but using anything not authorized by SE in this game is cheating. They even said that using a windower not made by SE is breaching ToS. They just haven't done anything about it.

Granted what he said Boting> windower is retarded. The point is that don't make it sound like those that use windower aren't cheating. I myself used it for a year, and afterwards went to SE's windower... I can tell you first hand it is a huge advantage to those that don't have it.

Your head hurts pretty easily, I'd suggest staying off QCDN for a while.

Windower is "cheating", just like pot is illegal. I have smoked pot, and will do so again. If you search through my previous posts, you'll see me saying exactly what you just said, "cheating is cheating". However, there are varying degrees of cheating.

As much as I'd like to get into a lengthy debate with you, I won't. I'll leave you with this:

Show me SE's version of NASA and I'll accept that I was wrong and you are correct. Until then, troll someone else sweetheart.

 

[bigbroon]

AHAHAHAHAHA, Jesus Christ, you're a fucking moron. If I thought you actually believed that, you'd be off the scale on my moronometer. Right now, you're pushing it close. Just shut the fuck up, seriously. Stop embarassing yourself. Shut the fuck up. Or don't, and provide me with laughs like the one I just had, every day! Either way, it's entertaining.

I'm on xbox, so I can't, even if I wanted to, use windower. I know a shit-ton of people who do, and while it doesn't play by the rules, it's real-world equivalent would be something like using file-sharing programs and illegal music/movie downloads - not right, but not the most harmful thing. Botting is more along the lines of shoplifting and (here's a lol for you, since you so generously provided me with one) bank robbery.

Alas, nobody's comments will ever have an effect on the miniscule brains inhabiting your heads. Auronx said people should be grateful to Absolution for bringing SMN burns to this server. I'm grateful to Absolution for 1 thing: it highlighted to me the people who I previously thought to be good all-round people (Auronx, Alastor), and showed just how much persuasion they took to become pieces of shit like yourself. And for that, I thank you. For everything else, I despise you.

Fuck 3 times, shit-ton once. Not exactly every other word; another meaningless attempt at insulting someone you don't like very much. Try again!

 

[Ryou]

Have you been in the aery lately still quite a series in there. If it was not bots it would be pc connections and the biggest processor specs. Also you do realize that the person still have to fight the mob and has to be at his pc and it not a garenteed claim. Only thing a claim bot does is hit a macro a certain intervial, simialar to that of spellcast does for equipment. If anything it equalizes your chances to compete aginst the quad core high ram gaming computers with t1 dedicted lines out there that sees a mob as soon as it pops.

The type of equipment used is ingrained into my argument. Look at my example. The NBA permits athletes to wear their own shoes despite the fact shoes can presumably effect your performance. In the same way different wetsuits are permitted at the Olympics even though they have different water retention rates and they effect swimmer performance.

But I'm pretty sure if LeBron showed up with some hover rockets attached to his shoes he'd get ejected. In the same way if you showed up to the Olympics with a wetsuit that had propellers grafted on you'd get thrown out too.

There's a line that has to be walked and it usually centers on whether or not the equipment merely enhances or replaces athletic talent or training.

With this in mind look at claiming.

Your PC is like your shoes. Sure there's some competitive advantage by having a good computer but by and large it's irrelevant. Why? It's called lockout. You can have the best computer and the lowest ping to the server and that doesn't guarantee a claim when lockout fucks you over for being too fast.

What FFXI's claim reward really rewards, over the long term, is having the largest group of players that are actually active to claim and not afk. The more people, the more chances you will have the guy that was lucky enough to start casting at the point where his spell goes off right after lockout finishes.

The problem with NASA or App linked camping is that they not only allow you to claim without being at the keyboard, it specifically defeats the purpose of lockout. By assigning claimers to certain synchronized delays you make it no longer about random distribution. You theoretically get to cover every assigned delay, minimizing the number of your people that get locked out. Five people with top of the line computers from shell X may get locked at at 1.10... but you will only have one person getting locked out at that time.

The damage is magnified by NASA's packet sniffer that makes sure your delays are distributed around an ideal time to claim the mob.

Does all of this make NASA unbeatable? No. But under the right circumstances, it could be a pretty ridiculous advantage.

Having a better computer is no more abusive than buying a PS2 just for Dragon's Aery. The advantages are small, legal, and easily available to all. NASA was none of those.

Given that most people accept the coding on the PS2 makes it better for claiming... Why did you all buy a $2000 bot instead of PS2s? Or new PCs?

You weren't simply maximizing your advantages; you fell into fuzz's little bot arms race because you were willing to pay whatever to get the best advantage.

And given the fact Absolution had no problem paying the pricetag on NASA, do you really expect me to believe none of you have shelled out the $10 for Wizbot?

Also who uses bots on outland kings? Those are hold party or mule camped, and everyone run once it spawn normally only time there not is if a opposing shell decide to alliance camp

NASA removes the need for an active mule because an AFK mule can alert the Linkshell of a pop. This steals away the advantage legit shells get from actively recruiting players of multiple timezones to make sure long spawn mobs are always covered.

End Game is supposed to reward shells comprised of dedicated and skilled players. Not shells of mediocrity supplemented with fuzz's cheap tricks.

 

[Arthur]

I think windower is sorta cheating, unfortunately the way the game is made it's a necessary evil. I cannot play comfortably without TP party, distance plugin, and scripts, which is all I use. I doubt anyone who uses windower shuts off those plugins or doesnt use scripts. If they perma broke it I would 100% quit the game.

I really don't see the need for windower. You rarely need to know the TP for your party members, if you do then they can easily make a macro or you can guess it by the amount of hits. Distance is really easy to tell most of the time, yes for some things its nice and helpful but the game can be played without it. I don't know what scripts means though.'

Infact to me personally its more fun doing stuff the right way. The other stuff that Hobobob mentioned like seeing through walls in Nyzul Isle is cheating and as bad as botting to me also.

 

[Mirewen]

When I played on PC for a couple months, I used Windower so I could browse the net while LFG or doing boring events without tabbing in and out because it made my laptop lag/freeze. Didn't have any addons or other programs.

Fail to see why it is 'cheating' and the fact that someone had the audacity to say it is worse than botting? lol.

 

[Hobobob]

Given that most people accept the coding on the PS2 makes it better for claiming... Why did you all buy a $2000 bot instead of PS2s? Or new PCs?

You weren't simply maximizing your advantages; you fell into fuzz's little bot arms race because you were willing to pay whatever to get the best advantage.

And given the fact Absolution had no problem paying the pricetag on NASA, do you really expect me to believe none of you have shelled out the $10 for Wizbot?




NASA removes the need for an active mule because an AFK mule can alert the Linkshell of a pop. This steals away the advantage legit shells get from actively recruiting players of multiple timezones to make sure long spawn mobs are always covered.

End Game is supposed to reward shells comprised of dedicated and skilled players. Not shells of mediocrity supplemented with fuzz's cheap tricks.

Couple things you're confused about. We didn't pay for NASA, there really was no pricetag for us. We got an advantage without having to pay out a single penny, not a bad deal in our eyes. I don't know what Whizbot is, but I'll gather it's someone else's version of FFXIApp.

NASA did not remove then need to have campers for long windows, NASA didn't notify the LS of a pop at all, tbh, NASA was the simplist software ever, it was designed to do one thing and one thing only, claim a mob. There was no notify LS options or any flee hacks attached with NASA at all.

If you're actually trying to say that the base of our shell isn't dedicated or skilled that's a joke in itself, if you actually think there's a shit tonne of people who only show up then afk botting you're sadly mistaken. The reason we do so well and continue to do so well is because of the dedication from the core members. You can have the best bot in the world, but if you don't have the people dedicated to stand behind it it's not going to do you much good at all.

 

[Hexx]

Problem here is that advantage is STILL cheating, for you are using a program to do what a human being is supposed to be doing. All insults aside, you guys (Abso) are just never going to understand because you are so entrenched in believing that what you are doing is right.

I personally dont approve of windower, and since i play on xbox, cant really use it anyways. Windower without those additional plugins is nothing more than a way to play in windowed mode and nothing more. Once you start adding all the extra shit is when you are walking, or just barely crossing the line. Is it cheating? Yeah I think so. Is it cheating on par with botting, hell to the muthafuckin no. Its like comparing shoplifting with homicide, both are illegal, but one is much worse than the other.

Think about it Abso peeps, go claim kings w/o your bot, see how this game was MEANT to be played. And please, dont bring on here that whole argument of "Oh well it's SE's fault for making mobs take so long to spawn and shitty drop rates" cuz seriously, if shit dropped every single fucking time, then these items wouldnt be in high demand.

 

[Arthur]

When I played on PC for a couple months, I used Windower so I could browse the net while LFG or doing boring events without tabbing in and out because it made my laptop lag/freeze. Didn't have any addons or other programs.

Well thats not cheating D= infact its allowed, can do that with SE Windower.

 

[Hobobob]

Why does botting bother you so much? You don't camp HNM. Right now there's 2 major LS's that camp HNM, us and Aura. Both are equipped with a bot, and I doubt either is willing to stop using it.

If you use the argument that you would if it was even playing ground I'll argue back that it will never be. Because SE has never done anything about it in the past 6 years you'll never be able to create an even playing ground. Like I stated, I didn't always bot, but I'm not going to sit there day in and day out and be the underdog in a losing fight. I evened the playing field when I started. I wouldn't have a problem at all if SE decided to level the field, I have no problems playing fair, I could live without a bot if I knew no one else had one, but that's not how it is, and it's probably not how it's ever going to be so I live with it.

 

[Hexx]

Why does botting bother you so much? You don't camp HNM. Right now there's 2 major LS's that camp HNM, us and Aura. Both are equipped with a bot, and I doubt either is willing to stop using it.

If you use the argument that you would if it was even playing ground I'll argue back that it will never be. Because SE has never done anything about it in the past 6 years you'll never be able to create an even playing ground. Like I stated, I didn't always bot, but I'm not going to sit there day in and day out and be the underdog in a losing fight. I evened the playing field when I started. I wouldn't have a problem at all if SE decided to level the field, I have no problems playing fair, I could live without a bot if I knew no one else had one, but that's not how it is, and it's probably not how it's ever going to be so I live with it.

Wanna know why dude? I'll tell ya why, because I for one do NOT condone botting, and neither will I join a shell that does it. It bothers me because it restricts my enjoyment of said part of the game. If both you and Aura didnt bot, and there was more healthy competition on the HNM scene, then hell yeah I would jump in to try to get me some nifty HNM gear, but you botters just take the fun out of it. FFXI is a game guys, A FUCKING GAME. I play it to have fun, not to make it feel like work or a chore. Trust me, the day this game feels like either, is the day I hang up my weapons and shield and call it quits.

 

[Master Honcho]

Couple things you're confused about. We didn't pay for NASA, there really was no pricetag for us. We got an advantage without having to pay out a single penny, not a bad deal in our eyes. I don't know what Whizbot is, but I'll gather it's someone else's version of FFXIApp.

NASA did not remove then need to have campers for long windows, NASA didn't notify the LS of a pop at all, tbh, NASA was the simplist software ever, it was designed to do one thing and one thing only, claim a mob. There was no notify LS options or any flee hacks attached with NASA at all.

If you're actually trying to say that the base of our shell isn't dedicated or skilled that's a joke in itself, if you actually think there's a shit tonne of people who only show up then afk botting you're sadly mistaken. The reason we do so well and continue to do so well is because of the dedication from the core members. You can have the best bot in the world, but if you don't have the people dedicated to stand behind it it's not going to do you much good at all.

wow... just wow... not only was that the nerdiest thing i've ever seen. it was also the most pathetic thing i've heard someone say regarding ffxi or botting...



that last line was just priceless... wow... lmao

 

[Auron X]

wow... just wow... not only was that the nerdiest thing i've ever seen. it was also the most pathetic thing i've heard someone say regarding ffxi or botting...



that last line was just priceless... wow... lmao

How now brown cow.