Another Crappy RDM Topic

[Kelyon]

(order btw is RDM > Healer/SMN > BLM/BLU > PLD (would be second after rdm, but auto refresh takes care of it alot now) > DRK)

LAFFO!

No wonder people say your a fucktard at your job. you refresh the BLM before the tank.

 

[Crosis]

first off thf mobs there this little spell I like to call gravity it allow you to eva down mobs.

Gravity no where near makes up for a Thfs evasion with only 3 melee. Especially after it does Warm Up and you have to dispel to get its evasion boost off.

Secondly with whm in a party with a rdm this allow rdm to help brd sleep adds with sleepga if /blm or help whm cure when freak accidents happen.

Bards help back up heal, gtfo Brd/Nin, and they have 2 lullabies. They dont need a back up sleepga. Bards with capped lullaby merits recast can get their recast down to 12 seconds easily so even if you got two resists, your third lullaby would be ready very fast.

Protect/shell who need them it not like the melee get hit much anyway with the shadow fad, unless you have a careless warrior or a over zelish mnk.

Are you kidding? Rushing Drub, Vorpal Blade, Fang Rush all are multi hit WS's. Not to mention Firespit which goes through shadows most of the time, Shell V from WHM > Shell II from RDM. We all know that after the first 30 mins are up RDMs have a hell of hard time keeping Tier IV buffs on everyone, so unless you are always losing chain they are just going to do Shellra II for the quick fix. Also let's not forget Cure V, if 2 melees suddenly take multiple damage a RDM can only Cure IV one and hope Cure III is enough to save another. A WHM can pop off Cure V and Cure IV. Also Tier III Regen is a better hHP over time tool then anything a RDM can give.

Whm has to manage there mp at all times and if they run out mp there in touble party has slow down, rdm only concern is keeping mp manage for 10 min once that 10 min is up he converts and clock starts agian, we also have this nice little techneque call fast cast which make paralyna near instant cast can have it of the entire group in about 3-4 sec longer then it would take divine veil. sub blm, sub blm, sub blm agian this is the handy thing about the 10 min window we dont need conserve, but my magnetic earring also is nice in these cases.

Fast Cast? WHMs most likely can cast faster or just as fast as RDMs in regards to curing. Cure Clogs + Cure Spell Merits. And WHMs cant have magnetic earring also? WHMs also have access to a bigger MP pool then RDMs do. So your Convert isn't so great when a WHM will 9 times out of 10 have 1100-1200 mp. I've partied with many RDMs who barely can get to 800. Also WHMs have a higher Clear Mind trait then do RDMs, so every tic they rest is more MP back.

For same reason a whm dont drop below 600 mp is same reason a rdm make it 10 min window with ease with time to spare most the time. Might I add this is with having less then 1k mp, but my rdm/whm can get over 1k mp easy and I have not even caped mp yet. Heck most rdm dont even try wear mp gear in merit parties why because it not needed.

If you are the main healer there would be no reason not to max your MP, you shouldn't be enfeebling in a cannon party other then using Dia 2.

 

[jamal]

Gravity no where near makes up for a Thfs evasion with only 3 melee. Especially after it does Warm Up and you have to dispel to get its evasion boost off.



Bards help back up heal, gtfo Brd/Nin, and they have 2 lullabies. They dont need a back up sleepga. Bards with capped lullaby merits recast can get their recast down to 12 seconds easily so even if you got two resists, your third lullaby would be ready very fast.



Are you kidding? Rushing Drub, Vorpal Blade, Fang Rush all are multi hit WS's. Not to mention Firespit which goes through shadows most of the time, Shell V from WHM > Shell II from RDM. We all know that after the first 30 mins are up RDMs have a hell of hard time keeping Tier IV buffs on everyone, so unless you are always losing chain they are just going to do Shellra II for the quick fix. Also let's not forget Cure V, if 2 melees suddenly take multiple damage a RDM can only Cure IV one and hope Cure III is enough to save another. A WHM Can pop off Cure V and Cure IV.



Fast Cast? WHMs most likely can cast faster or just as fast as RDMs in regards to curing. Cure Clogs + Cure Spell Merits. And WHMs cant have magnetic earring also? WHMs also have access to a bigger MP pool then RDMs do. So your Convert isn't so great when a WHM will 9 times out of 10 have 1100-1200 mp. I've partied with many RDMs who barely can get to 800. Also WHMs have a higher Clear Mind trait then do RDMs, so every tic they rest is more MP back.



If you are the main healer there would be no reason not to max your MP, you shouldn't be enfeebling in a cannon party other then using Dia 2.

Nice magic burst in your sig nub...3k where?

=P Make a good times post about it.

But expect hellstorm to not read your post and say the same things back, its been happening quite a few pages now...

 

[Crosis]

Nice magic burst in your sig nub...3k where?

=P Make a good times post about it.

Zomg maybe I will!!

 

[jamal]

Make the Title "Fafnir Pwned"

 

[Altheya]

Had to highlight this cause it made me lol at work and people stared at me.

Wait minute Z, what's this thing about 'work' that you have.......

 

[Uzor]

Are you kidding? Rushing Drub, Vorpal Blade, Fang Rush all are multi hit WS's. Not to mention Firespit which goes through shadows most of the time, Shell V from WHM > Shell II from RDM. We all know that after the first 30 mins are up RDMs have a hell of hard time keeping Tier IV buffs on everyone, so unless you are always losing chain they are just going to do Shellra II for the quick fix. Also let's not forget Cure V, if 2 melees suddenly take multiple damage a RDM can only Cure IV one and hope Cure III is enough to save another. A WHM can pop off Cure V and Cure IV. Also Tier III Regen is a better hHP over time tool then anything a RDM can give.

I know from personal experience that all mage mamool ja's Firespit goes through shadows, while melee mamool ja's absorbs shadows >.<

Fast Cast? WHMs most likely can cast faster or just as fast as RDMs in regards to curing. Cure Clogs + Cure Spell Merits. And WHMs cant have magnetic earring also? WHMs also have access to a bigger MP pool then RDMs do. So your Convert isn't so great when a WHM will 9 times out of 10 have 1100-1200 mp. I've partied with many RDMs who barely can get to 800. Also WHMs have a higher Clear Mind trait then do RDMs, so every tic they rest is more MP back.

You must party with some baaad RDMes <.<; I can easily get over 800 MP as an elvaan RDM/NIN <.<

 

[Crosis]

I know from personal experience that all mage mamool ja's Firespit goes through shadows, while melee mamool ja's absorbs shadows >.<


You must party with some baaad RDMes <.<; I can easily get over 800 MP as an elvaan RDM/NIN <.<

Melee Mamool Firespit do not always get absorbed, you need the full 3 shadows for them to get absorbed. Pretty sure anyway.

As for MP you also have zenith gear, serket ring and most likely capped MP merits, many RDMs do not have any of those.

 

[Codyf]

Red Mages can melee if they can handle all their jobs at once, do not waste mp or die based on healing themselves from AoE

You can't melee though, you can't handle your job, you can't cast refresh on people, you can't help heal and you don't waste mp, want to know why you don't waste mp? Because you never cast anything, you are to focused on attacking the mob. You sure do conserve mp -_-

Other than that, rdm's were meant to melee with -en spells on, haste, and the best weapons and acc+ gear. To maximize spell potential in this form, they have to use /equip swaps on nearly every spell. A melee rdm, however, if mp consumption is monitored, can have limitless MP with convert.

Lol I remember you had tons of Int+ Gear on, not one time did anyone ever see you change gear while you were fighting, we kept checking to see if you were swaping out rings or something, nope lol. The dmg you were doing looked something like this 10, 0, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, 20, miss, miss <mob dead> A total of 30 dmg from the rdm woot!

But yes, I warrent that if a rdm has major cure duties, or if it is a rdm's off day as far as mental awareness goes (maybe you caught me then), they shouldn't melee. And, if they do not appear to be mentally with it, please give a gentle reminder instead of taking your anger to the Flameboards, rather than the red mage who made you unhappy to begin with.

I told you to cure instead of melee in the boss fight for CoP, lol you went in fighting and you had 300 mp or so at the end of the fight. Instead of curing people and keeping them alive to win the mission, you decided that your whole "Conserve Mp" theory would make you a uber rdm in the end. Great job pissing off 5 other people you are with because you made them lose the boss fight 2 times.

Vallion can do whatever he would like to do, if that means coming to a flameboard to flame a horrible rdm as yourself and Neya, then so be it. Who the hell gives a "gentle" reminder to a couple of the worse rdm's on the server?

By your post, I think the whole "Mental Awareness" shows, you really should get it checked out.

As stated though, the stats of a rdm give it the ability to do anything. It's skill in enfeebling is mostly to bring the enemy down to a level that it can deal with with its skills that are equal but well under the maximum for other jobs. They are adept at taking advantage of enemies in every which way, and helping themselves to stay in battle nearly limitlessly. Its skill in Sword and Dagger, and its ability to weild Excalibur and Mandau, are clear signs that these are weapons that can be and should be used by red mages everywhere, but at the cost of a very macro(or should I say micro)-intensive job.

Blah blah blah blah blah, go play Dragoon or something, maybe RDM Is way to much for you to handle.

 

[Blackchaoshero]

Melee Mamool Firespit do not always get absorbed, you need the full 3 shadows for them to get absorbed. Pretty sure anyway.

As for MP you also have zenith gear, serket ring and most likely capped MP merits, many RDMs do not have any of those.

3 shadows or it bypasses, yes. rdms who don't cap mp merits are just plain lazy, their loss.

 

[Vilurum]

RDMs have quite a bit of more skill then BRDs in Dagger and Sword. Allowing us to hit harder and much more then Brd even with songs. All depending on gear ofcourse, But I still don't think they should be hittin anything during XP fights.

Factoring in songs, I think BRDs actually win assuming equal gear/merits and only accounting for base difference in skill (i.e. accuracy and attack):

Blade Madrigal +2: about +32 acc
Valor Minuet IV +2: about +61 att (add up to 5 for Minuet merits)

BRD base dagger skill: 240
BRD base sword skill: 220
RDM base dagger skill: 250
RDM base sword skill: 250

Dagger: RDM has 0.92 * (250 - 240) = 9 acc, (250 - 240) = 10 att advantage without songs. With songs, BRD has 32 - 9 = 23 acc, 61 - 10 = 51 att advantage.

Sword: RDM has 0.92 * (250 - 220) = 27 acc, (250 - 220) = 30 att advantage without songs. With songs, BRD has 32 - 27 = 5 acc, 61 - 30 = 31 att advantage.

Of course, then you have to factor in the melee time taken away by *using* the songs and the RDMs will likely end up back on top on account of that.

And also of course, I completely agree that both jobs have a ton of reasons not to melee in exp (after, ya know, lowbie levels like dunes and maybe Qufim).

 

[Daggett]

LOL Oliveman dubs himself the infamous melee redmage as if he's actually good at it. Hell he hasn't hit 75 yet for the longest he's been playing. Barely has ninja leveled from what I remember to (Which is what I assme to be one of the key things to sub for rdm if you want to even begin thinking about being a DD.)

Do you job you tard.

 

[oliveman]

Allow me to provide you with some specifics... and Dagget and Cody, please keep your personal squables and the one event you've been on with me out of this. Both those things have nothing to do with rdm in general, and besides, you barely know me.

Trait which allows rdm to melee? Fast Cast. Along with haste, this allows refresh cycles to be quick and minimizes the time spent actually casting spells. You can cast more spells faster and still be able to melee.
The reason I have never leveled with /nin? BLM augments my magic more effectively when I'm meleeing. Remember, I never rest in parties, so Conserve MP and the MP bonus I get from subbing blm allow the Convert cycle to always stay active. Furthermore, Drain, Aspir, and all the stat lowering DoT spells are incredible assets. I am leveling NIN now at RDM 73 so that I can dual-wield enhancing sword and joyeuse, the best combo for a melee rdm who always has -en spells active.

-En spells, by the way, do not give tp to the mob, and if I end up doing 0 melee dmg on a hit + 17 en damage, that gives 0 tp.

Side note: I still stand by my refresh order -RDM needs to be first so when mine wears I can start the cycle again. PLD's with auto-refresh don't run into MP trouble very often anymore, and many times I will re-adjust my order based on how people play their job. In general, though, I want to keep the tank able to heal themselves for hate.. but if they don't ever run down their MP, I'm not going to arbitrarily refresh them. All depends on how they play, and I've run into many PLD's who do fine with their auto-refresh, and only need refresh every 3 fights or so.

Some would argue that it is better to stand back and nuke as the main source of RDM dmg. This is merely another way to play rdm, and definitely not the only one. Personally I MB on skillchains (/equip switching in +INT and a moldy earring for all elemental spells, swaping out my spite earring and a life belt), and sometimes MB my own SC that I make, planned, with another member of the party, or off a lvl 1 SC to make it lvl 2. Spirits within at 300 tp is good as well if there is no one to SC with, though the variable damage you get with burning blade (using /equip macros to boost INT, STR, and magic attack bonus) can get up to 200 damage on IT mobs (i.e. EXP mobs). This is not Rampage, but it's good for a job that also refreshes, also MB's, also hastes, also adds dmg with -en spells, also enfeebles the mob for everyone's benefit, and also CAN heal if the need arises, with the ever-ready backup supply of MP from convert.

Oh and as far as BRD goes, the fact that they're limited to 2 song effects, and the inability to lock ones for themselves, leads them to be very bad at giving themselves melee powers when they need to assist mages as well. Of course it is possible if they only give ballad between fights, but this is in a world where most BRD's are /WHM, and without a RDM in the party, need ballad themselves, much more than melee enhancements.

As I said before, rdm is adept at many things, allowing it to be played in many different ways. This is the way I choose to play it, and it comes at the only admited cost of the ability to heal effectively. I openly tell people who ask me to party that if I am main healer, I'd prefer not to join. Sometimes, though, when I want to relax, I will play as a magic-only rdm... but I really do not find playing rdm that way remotely exciting or challenging. It is far more rewarding to fend off the myriad of complaints that come my way in regard to how rdm's should not melee. It can be played many different ways, but this, remember, is how I play it. I do, in fact, think about all these things. I did not melee imps at 68, but do at 73. Why? Because with their low melee defense and high magic resistence, and with backup silena support, I can contribute alot more to bringing the mob down by getting in there with my sword.

If you catch me on an off day, though, please, as I asked, tell me, and I will immediately take preventative measures against any mental laziness.

If any of this angers you, or disturbs your sense of how things should be, I sincerely apoligize; I never meant to ruffle your feathers. Remember that we're all in this together, and you shouldn't needlessly attack a person for how they play a game, a method which, personally, I have actually done quite a bit of thinking about.

P.S. my macros do get annoying sometimes, I think I'll go ahead and get rid of ones that would be used regularly, but keep stuff like my convert, chainspell, and elemental seal macros. At least I don't use all caps and a <call> along with the ones I have

 

[jamal]

Hits at 0 damage don't give you tp either for your awesome 200 dmg weaponskill. Saving TP means you're not ele-stave switching for debuffs/nukes/cures, and also that you're not hitting for 0. If your hits hit for anything MORE then 0 dmg, it gives the mob MORE tp then it gives you. There's so many reasons not to melee in any circumstance besides soloing.
If a rdm ever saved tp for a 300% spirits within while exping, I'd probably cry...You do realize nq staves are 10-20k each right? The effects of even NQ stave switching makes a much bigger difference then your 1+17dmg enspell hit ever will.

 

[Artem]

why are people arguing about melee rdms? lol this topic was argued to death 3 years ago.

The fact remains that there will be rdms out there that think they are benefiting the party by meleeing. They won't change their mind because people tell them too, they think they are "rebels." So just let them be, and don't invite them.

 

[Tomasello]

Oliveman - The Infamous Melee Red Mage

Ewww... this just says it all. If this is your attitude then you suck at your job, end of story. If any leader doesn't kick you from there party they should be shot. You are a cancer in ffxi and I really didn't think people like you still existed. Your not master of everything jackass, in fact your really master of nothing.

Your job is a support role thats why we have A's in enfeeble and enhancing. We have been modified to be healers when needed but even as argued by others in the above posts, whms are more efficient. Your job is certainly not to gimp everyone out with your sub par B/C melee/nuking skills. It's to debuff the mob and buff your party so the people with the A skills can do there jobs.

You make me sick.

 

[Kerowynn]

Ewww... this just says it all. If this is your attitude then you suck at your job, end of story. If any leader doesn't kick you from there party they should be shot. You are a cancer in ffxi and I really didn't think people like you still existed. Your not master of everything jackass, in fact your really master of nothing.

Your job is a support role thats why we have A's in enfeeble and enhancing. We have been modified to be healers when needed but even as argued by others in the above posts, whms are more efficient. Your job is certainly not to gimp everyone out with your sub par B/C melee/nuking skills. It's to debuff the mob and buff your party so the people with the A skills can do there jobs.

You make me sick.

that was awfully dramatic lol.

Back on topic...honestly I'd never melee in a normal xp party. Meleeing while in a solo/duo situation on rdm is fun, but since I'm generally the main healer I think it'd basically screw my party over to have me meleeing on rdm normally.

 

[Drayah]

Well i dont post on here often,but after reading olivemans post,i thought i would.Ive only been in a party with him once,and i know everyone has bad days,but he was worse than bad.we was doing promyvion vahzl and he started to melee,and we had a few near deaths,becouse he would not heal or refresh anyone.In fact it got so bad that i was healing him while he sat on his full mp pool.

He was asked many times if he could help heal and refresh,but he said that he was good at melee and had never had any complaints.(I find this hard to belive after what i saw).But any ways we finally get to fighting the single NM's and he was asked,no told to help heal and refresh.And did he?like fuck did he,we had a few deaths becouse he would not heal,when he died he had full MP.he said he was about to heal!wtf if he did what he was asked to do he and the tank would not have died.

Well we finally get to fighting all three bosses and we had to do it twice becouse of the alliance.the group i was in won on the 2nd attempt,his group didnt win,apparently his was playing at melee again.eventually he got kicked and i went in with the other group and we got the win.

Now i dont mind him playing at being melee.Yes an rdm can melee,if they have the right gear ect.But oliveman didnt and just sucked as a RDM.As i myself am an rdm i know what is involved in playing rdm.I may not be the best rdm out there,but after seeing oliveman,i know im not the worst.

Nuff said.

 

[Zura]

Trait which allows rdm to melee? Fast Cast.

Of all the arguements pro-melee I've ever heard, that has to be the most retarded.

Spirits within at 300 tp is good as well if there is no one to SC with, though the variable damage you get with burning blade (using /equip macros to boost INT, STR, and magic attack bonus) can get up to 200 damage on IT mobs (i.e. EXP mobs).

Spirits is for fighting gods/something else with massive def that normal WSes can't break. Using it in PT is a bad joke. Getting up to 200 damage on a burning blade? That's even worse. If you have to resort to non-physical dmg WSes, you don't belong anywhere near the front line. A decent Savage Blade, hell, a decent Fast Blade does more then that, yes, on ITs.

It is far more rewarding to fend off the myriad of complaints that come my way in regard to how rdm's should not melee.

Wow, that's great, its far better to spend your time wasting a PT slot and lowering the xp of six people defending yourself then to do your job. Most RDMs grow out of this mentality that they shouldn't have to work for their xp, oh about 40ish. You apparently lack any learning or analytical skills whatsoever, I feel sorry for any PT that invites you.

and you shouldn't needlessly attack a person for how they play a game, a method which, personally, I have actually done quite a bit of thinking about

You seem to have missed the point: you wouldn't be under fire if you had a clue. If you want to do things your way, go play an offline game and pat yourself on the back for doing it some other way then whats in Brady guide. But don't come in here and spout off paragraph after paragraph about how your way works, when your melee skills are pathetic and only your skill at your job exceeds it.

Tomasello was right, you're a cancer, and set back the job we play every time you put your flag up.

 

[Daggett]

Allow me to provide you with some specifics... and Dagget and Cody, please keep your personal squables and the one event you've been on with me out of this. Both those things have nothing to do with rdm in general, and besides, you barely know me.

Barely know you? LOL, ok? I believe my crew has dealt with you for little over a year, maybe 2. But any way, I don't have to know anybody personally to know if they suck at their job or not. I've partied with many rdm's I've barely knew and they are much better than you will ever be.

Any way, out of all the other dumb ass things you said, I'll just let all that slide. You just gave this topic another reason to live.