Another pet question

[K. Ishitar]

taken from....

SMN set is arguably one of the best all around sets of AF2. While it doesn't have a -huge- piece like RDM hat or PLD body, all around most summoners will use at least 3 to 4 pieces in the set.

Summoner's Horn can be used for having avatar out as there is no real perp cost minus head, and it essentially replaces Penance Hat.

Summoner's Doublet is hands down the best body to blood pact rage in, however you probably wouldn't keep it on for when you have your avatar out (depending on the day).

Summoner's mitts are great also. Swap them in for Blood Pact: Ward and Blood pact: Rage. Also a good full-time piece if you don't have Nashira Gages.

Summoner's spats are imo the worst piece in the set, but with Elemental Siphon you do call out elementals more often than ever before, so they do have a small niche now. Almost a only macro-in piece though.

Summoner's pigaches are also a great blood pact rage piece, and good to full time if you don't have AF1+1.



For SAM the hands are a great piece for the extra TP on meditate. Some people also use the feet for Weapon Skills, but most I know would use Hachiman/etc. SAM head is also a wannabe O. Hat that pretty much only looks cool. The body is a joke. As for the legs I'm not sure if people swap those in for the third eye effect. You'd have to ask a career SAM (may have been said above me).

I hope this helped a little. Basically out of the SMN set you'll be gaining a lot, but those hands are a very nice piece for SAM, really up to which job you prefer to get =p

LoL yeah I thought they were kinda useless but now they can be macroed in for the said purpose and allow quicker desummons when using elemental siphon(read: slightly less drain of mp vs amount regained)

I was considering making a thread about this involving the smn job with af2 and smn skill vs it.


The problem I'm having is whether the bonuses such as attack from relic legs affect the avatar when it's first summoned or first using the bloodpact. Same problem with sacrifice torque, does anyone know?

I want to think it works the same as drg relic body and applies to when you first summon the dragon and you can take it off, but not all pet jobs work the same and each pet is slightly different.

Applying this matter to bst as well since there are quite a few items with defense bonus and such but do they activate in the same manner as summoned or can be added in anytime for effect?

 

[Lucki]

taken from....



LoL yeah I thought they were kinda useless but now they can be macroed in for the said purpose and allow quicker desummons when using elemental siphon(read: slightly less drain of mp vs amount regained)

I was considering making a thread about this involving the smn job with af2 and smn skill vs it.


The problem I'm having is whether the bonuses such as attack from relic legs affect the avatar when it's first summoned or first using the bloodpact. Same problem with sacrifice torque, does anyone know?

I want to think it works the same as drg relic body and applies to when you first summon the dragon and you can take it off, but not all pet jobs work the same and each pet is slightly different.

Applying this matter to bst as well since there are quite a few items with defense bonus and such but do they activate in the same manner as summoned or can be added in anytime for effect?

Not sure about the SMN part, but I'll take the BST question. In relation to these:

you only have to have them equipped when you Call Beast for the effect to occur. After you summon your jug, you can equip something else more beneficial to you. The other equipment that BST can use that effects pets are related to Reward, Duration, Defense and Enmity.

The Reward related things have to be equipped when the /ja is used, but can then be replaced. The Duration related (+Charm, not +CHR) things need to stay on, I think, and only effect pets found in the wild (Jug pets have a static duration that isn't effected by anything). As for the Defense and Enmity gear (Breeder's Set, Pallas's Shield and Askar Dirs), you'd have to ask someone else. I don't have access to those pieces.

Hope that helped.

 

[Dejan]

Not sure about the SMN part, but I'll take the BST question. In relation to these:

you only have to have them equipped when you Call Beast for the effect to occur. After you summon your jug, you can equip something else more beneficial to you. The other equipment that BST can use that effects pets are related to Reward, Duration, Defense and Enmity.

The Reward related things have to be equipped when the /ja is used, but can then be replaced. The Duration related (+Charm, not +CHR) things need to stay on, I think, and only effect pets found in the wild (Jug pets have a static duration that isn't effected by anything). As for the Defense and Enmity gear (Breeder's Set, Pallas's Shield and Askar Dirs), you'd have to ask someone else. I don't have access to those pieces.

Hope that helped.

Luck, buddy, one thing you're forgetting is that those items you stated above (Relic hands, reward+ eq) enhance job abilities. They enhance Call Beast and Reward, so theoretically you only have to equip them to USE these abilities.

I think it's a whole different subject when we go to the enhances pet defence kind of thing. I personally believe you have to have that piece equipped so that the pet gets that benificial thing.

See where i'm getting at mate? Dunno if i explained it as well as i could...


Edit: Ok, i needa learn to read before replying, you're saying exactly the same thing i am XD


Edit2: But to add an opinion so that this post doesn't go in vain, i agree with Luck and say that for the +def/enm thing you have to have them on so that they gain effect.

 

[Sharpe]

I think it's a whole different subject when we go to the enhances pet defence kind of thing. I personally believe you have to have that piece equipped so that the pet gets that benificial thing.

I suspect that too. Take NIN AF body "Enhances Dual Wield Effect" you don't keep the effect when you unequip the body.

Perhaps the SMN bits work differently but i'd guess not.

 

[K. Ishitar]

I suspect that too. Take NIN AF body "Enhances Dual Wield Effect" you don't keep the effect when you unequip the body.

Perhaps the SMN bits work differently but i'd guess not.

yeah, all pet jobs work differently for example with spirits

I would think one should macro in all the smn magic skill you can with spirits to increase the AI before summoning, but the formulas for spell activation is simply smn skill/ factors not whether it's based off of the smn magic skill previous before summoned or whether it was switched in after summoned. Not that spirits are used mind you but, when you apply this to avatars, you use smn magic skill+ for acc on offensive bps and extra duration on wards. In other areas stuff such as sacrifice torque and summoner spats can be used for extra damage.

I didn't think many people would know, I'm only going off of testimonies so far but it's something I'll have to look into once i get smn earring and I'm able to wear my evoker's horn.

I used the drg body as an example because it gains a single trait based off of the subjob of the drg and can be taken off while the original trait remains with the wyvren until it dies or it is desummoned. Summoner spats give an attack bonus and we aren't sure if that's based when the avatar is summoned or if it's given while they're worn.

thanks for the responses, waiting for mish to post, she usually has good insight.

I didn't know the charm+ stuff about bst though, can they be added any time or before the charming of the monster?

 

[Dejan]

I didn't know the charm+ stuff about bst though, can they be added any time or before the charming of the monster?

Yeah, usually what we do is we get all the +charm/chr gear we want to use, put it all in a macro with the ending line being /ja Charm <stnpc>, so it'll swap gear right before you charm. You just need the gear for that initial charm, then you can swap into your melee, subligar, woman's dress, whatever you like Khid XD

 

[Lucki]

Edit: Ok, i needa learn to read before replying, you're saying exactly the same thing i am XD

:roll:

 

[Davion]

taken from....



LoL yeah I thought they were kinda useless but now they can be macroed in for the said purpose and allow quicker desummons when using elemental siphon(read: slightly less drain of mp vs amount regained)

I was considering making a thread about this involving the smn job with af2 and smn skill vs it.


The problem I'm having is whether the bonuses such as attack from relic legs affect the avatar when it's first summoned or first using the bloodpact. Same problem with sacrifice torque, does anyone know?

I want to think it works the same as drg relic body and applies to when you first summon the dragon and you can take it off, but not all pet jobs work the same and each pet is slightly different.

Applying this matter to bst as well since there are quite a few items with defense bonus and such but do they activate in the same manner as summoned or can be added in anytime for effect?

yeah, all pet jobs work differently for example with spirits

I would think one should macro in all the smn magic skill you can with spirits to increase the AI before summoning, but the formulas for spell activation is simply smn skill/ factors not whether it's based off of the smn magic skill previous before summoned or whether it was switched in after summoned. Not that spirits are used mind you but, when you apply this to avatars, you use smn magic skill+ for acc on offensive bps and extra duration on wards. In other areas stuff such as sacrifice torque and summoner spats can be used for extra damage.

I didn't think many people would know, I'm only going off of testimonies so far but it's something I'll have to look into once i get smn earring and I'm able to wear my evoker's horn.

I used the drg body as an example because it gains a single trait based off of the subjob of the drg and can be taken off while the original trait remains with the wyvren until it dies or it is desummoned. Summoner spats give an attack bonus and we aren't sure if that's based when the avatar is summoned or if it's given while they're worn.

thanks for the responses, waiting for mish to post, she usually has good insight.

I didn't know the charm+ stuff about bst though, can they be added any time or before the charming of the monster?

A lot of gear in this game works differently when you have an "enhances" notation.

Summoning spirits are directly effected by Summoning magic skill. This skill determines their AI's speed and response to certain battle conditions. That being said, unequipping gear that gives more to summoning magic skill will decrease their AI's effectiveness. The "Shortens the casting time of elemental spirits" of the Summoner's spats works like the Red Mage's AF hat. It has to be on for that effect to happen. Like Dejan said in relation to the BST gear. The enhancement takes place when the gear is on when you use that ability.

For example, the summoner's bracers enhance avatar accuracy. Let's say you are have the SMN legs on. Before you use Predator Claws in a macro,
equip the Evoker's spats (or +1) to get more accuracy.

One thing that's bugged me for a while is that what occurs during the preparation stage of avatar's attacks in Blood Pact: Rage. (Garuda readies Predator Claws.) Like weapon skills, their damage output is based on the conditions of equipped gear, player's merits, TP% (except for the lvl 70 BP which don't use TP) and what buffs and debuffs.

I'm under the impression that nothing can alter (macro swapping certain gear) an avatar's accuracy and attack while they are in the middle of that animation of readying their attack aside from a mob throwing up a defensive move at the last second. If anyone can shed some light on that please feel free. From my own personal testing I say it's all luck.

Blood Pact: Ward has a preset calculation. Healing blood pacts are governed by the TP of the avatar. Carbuncle heals for about as much as Cure IV (about 400+ HP) with Healing Ruby II when he has 300% TP.

More examples in spoilers. These results came from Carbuncle having between 200-300% TP.

Spoiler:

 

[hellstorm]

Smn blood pact timer works like the bst gloves. They only have to be on when starting to cast the ability, in fact if you're fast enough you can start casting then switch to + smn magic gear for more dmg.
If the effect is effecting a stat of some type like nin af(swing time) or war body/feet see (war af2 for more info) then you have keep them on to keep the effect. However, if it has to do with timers like war head, or case the bst gloves pet level, or drg body and subjob trait(things that can't be change after it starts). Then you only need them on for the the start of the cast for the effect to take place. As for atk/acc/eva up gear my guess is yes you would need to keep them on. Just like a Blm has to keep on magic atk.

 

[K. Ishitar]

Smn blood pact timer works like the bst gloves. They only have to be on when starting to cast the ability, in fact if you're fast enough you can start casting then switch to + smn magic gear for more dmg.

If the effect is effecting a stat of some type like nin af(swing time) or war body/feet see (war af2 for more info) then you have keep them on to keep the effect. However, if it has to do with timers like war head, or case the bst gloves pet level, or drg body and subjob trait(things that can't be change after it starts).

Then you only need them on for the the start of the cast for the effect to take place. As for atk/acc/eva up gear my guess is yes you would need to keep them on. Just like a Blm has to keep on magic atk.

Rage bps are considered weapon skills including the *nukes* which is why they can't be reflected by colibri. Once it starts it uses the gear that has any sort of effect on the avatar, even if you switch it the other gear such as smn+ skill will not have more effect.

It's the same as doing a regular ws with a pc, the computer doesn't register the gear used for that moment after the weapon skill, even weapon skills that "take longer" to finish such as asuran fists compared to a tachi: gekko.

I was pretty much expecting the keeping on part though(unfortunately), because I considered whether if the extra att, eva, acc, etc. would be considered a job trait given like the wyrm body does but unfortunately it doesn't.

thanks for the responses btw.

 

[Lyrai]

For blood pacts, I start in whatever gear I have on, which is -perpet and -blood pact time, and switch in the damage gear after my BP starts, and I've always had pretty high, consistent damage.

The only thing I can relate this to is DRG AF1 Armet vs. AF2 Armet, where AF1 triggers a healing breath at 50% instead of 33%, and AF2 Armet makes the Healing breath equal to a Cure IV. Swapped in after the Healing breath is triggered will create the effect.

As for the Summoner's Spats, I've always been told they shorten the time between spells that a Spirit casts, not the actual time that it takes to cast the spirit.

 

[Davion]

Smn blood pact timer works like the bst gloves. They only have to be on when starting to cast the ability, in fact if you're fast enough you can start casting then switch to + smn magic gear for more dmg.
If the effect is effecting a stat of some type like nin af(swing time) or war body/feet see (war af2 for more info) then you have keep them on to keep the effect. However, if it has to do with timers like war head, or case the bst gloves pet level, or drg body and subjob trait(things that can't be change after it starts). Then you only need them on for the the start of the cast for the effect to take place. As for atk/acc/eva up gear my guess is yes you would need to keep them on. Just like a Blm has to keep on magic atk.

You cannot do that. Even if you are fast enough, only the gear you had on when you confirm the BP Rage will be considered in the calculation of dmg just like a WS.

 

[hellstorm]

You cannot do that. Even if you are fast enough, only the gear you had on when you confirm the BP Rage will be considered in the calculation of dmg just like a WS.

Don't be so sure about that. Now I may only be a 66 smn, but my smn friends start in - perp cost and bp gear and switch to smn magic/atk gear and say they see a improvement. Since the timer start when you press the button, but the ws start 2-3 sec after allow you to accomplish this.

 

[evanos]

Don't be so sure about that. Now I may only be a 66 smn, but my smn friends start in - perp cost and bp gear and switch to smn magic/atk gear and say they see a improvement. Since the timer start when you press the button, but the ws start 2-3 sec after allow you to accomplish this.

He is right about this. Since its a job ability it is calculated the moment when you hit Blood Pact: Rage or Blood Pact: Ward. Your friends seeing an improvement is most likely either a fluke or a placebo effect. Besides, Blood Pact: Rage varies so much anyway, how have they seen any improvements? What testing have they done?

You can test this very easily (which I have done a very ghetto version of, but didn't sit out there for 2h testing it) by using Hastega on Blood Pact: Ward. First take all of your gear off and then cast hastega and precisely (I used my /clock in game) count down the time until it wears. After that put all of your summoning magic gear on and see how long hastega lasts.Then do it again only using Blood Pact - timer gear, and then right after you hit the macro swapping into all of your Summoning Magic + Gear and count the time down until it wears. For me, in the 9 tests I did (about 30 mins) there was a 6 second difference between when I cast wearing summoning magic gear when I hit the macro, and swapping into summoning magic + gear after I hit the macro. You're more than welcome to test this by yourself or with others, but it would be a big waste of time because Blood Pact: Rage and Ward are calculated right when you hit the button, similar to a melee weaponskill.

If you do happen to swap gear in fast enough I think I'm going to start swapping in full STR gear then swap into some more ACC and ATT gear on my Rampage.

 

[Taisa]

I am one of the SMN friends. Ill attempt to clear up a little bit of misunderstandings about my job. Switching gear does work. I have tested it many times from sharks in sea to imps in the mire to even JoL and Fafnir. Activating the JA Blood Pact: Rage and Ward are just timers. Personally still having a debate on if Sac. Torque is worth it, but for only 20k who cares. I macro in more summoning magic and more attack gear (including Sac. Torque) and usually see higher numbers than when I don't. This is because while I lose a bit of summoning magic skill on some pieces, I am overall pushing my Avatars attack to a limit. You will rarely see 1500+ predator claws to an imp in the mire or 1000+ to fafnir or Jol without the gear I macro in. The reason it is different for an avatar vs a regular player is because of that prep time for the avatar to complete its move. Think of it like this, your initial gear switch is your ability (activating BP:Rage) and the second gear switch is the avatars "weapon skill" so its like your just changing gear for the avatar. I have screen shots and many other summoners that will agree with me. It does work.

 

[K. Ishitar]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Summoning_Magic_Skill

It only affects accuracy and the accuracy on blood pacts isn't so great which could be why your numbers were better after using all the smn+ skill. Stuff such as Rush is great if Shiva can land all 5 hits supposedly. (no you didn't say that it affected attack just adding it in because your post was misleading at first). What gear do you use initially then change for bp? Thats the question.

What did you think of the initial question as well? Are they job traits gained upon summoning or can they be given or taking upon swapping?

i'd be interested in those screenshots as well, with specific gear setups and the resulting affect of each please. Not trying to say it's bs but I'd just like to see what gear is used to achieve those results since I made this thread for a learning experience as well.

In short it's hard to say who's right and who's wrong without screens really.

 

[Taisa]

As a starter, and its clear from my macro, I use windower. Just getting that out of the way before I put my macro here.

input /echo ***70 Bloodpact Starting***;
input /equip hands "Summoner's Brcr.";
input /equip legs "Summoner's Spats";
input /equip neck "Smn. Torque";
input /equip body "Yinyang Robe";
input /equip head "Summoner's Horn";
input /equip feet "Summoner's Pgch.";
input /pet "Eclipse Bite" <t>;
input /pet "Flaming Crush" <t>;
input /pet "Mountain Buster" <t>;
input /pet "Spinning Dive" <t>;
input /pet "Predator Claws" <t>;
input /pet "Rush" <t>;
input /pet "Chaotic Strike" <t>;
input /pet "Nether Blast" <t>;
input /echo ***Starting Attack***;
pause 1;
input /equip "Neck" "Sacrifice Torque";
input /equip "Legs" "Evoker's Spats";
input /equip head "Evoker's Horn";
input /equip body "Summoner's Doublet";
input /echo ***Wait 4 Seconds before another Macro***;
pause 6;
input /equip head "Summoner's Horn";
input /equip neck "Smn. Torque";
input /equip body "Yinyang Robe";
input /equip legs "Summoner's Spats";
input /equip hands "Summoner's Brcr.";
input /equip feet "Evk. Pigaches +1";
input /echo ***Avatar Limit Move Completed***;

Ok, that is just 1 of my macros, and the one I have spent the most time on. There are a lot of screen shots and I have only SSd and saved the ones from goldfish in sea and then the breaking of the 1k marks. Yeah, I know that goldfish suck but it still proves a point. While my base max dmg on an open mouth goldfish starts at a cap of about 4k, i gradually increased my dmg all the way up to 6.8k when new gear was added to my collection. If you really want me to host the images, it will take some time, but I'm sure ill find some Also, the attack can be changed, IMO (I'm sure some disagree) upon switching gear, otherwise why bother with changing?

 

[evanos]

I am one of the SMN friends. Ill attempt to clear up a little bit of misunderstandings about my job. Switching gear does work. I have tested it many times from sharks in sea to imps in the mire to even JoL and Fafnir. Activating the JA Blood Pact: Rage and Ward are just timers. Personally still having a debate on if Sac. Torque is worth it, but for only 20k who cares. I macro in more summoning magic and more attack gear (including Sac. Torque) and usually see higher numbers than when I don't. This is because while I lose a bit of summoning magic skill on some pieces, I am overall pushing my Avatars attack to a limit. You will rarely see 1500+ predator claws to an imp in the mire or 1000+ to fafnir or Jol without the gear I macro in. The reason it is different for an avatar vs a regular player is because of that prep time for the avatar to complete its move. Think of it like this, your initial gear switch is your ability (activating BP:Rage) and the second gear switch is the avatars "weapon skill" so its like your just changing gear for the avatar. I have screen shots and many other summoners that will agree with me. It does work.

This argument is 100% invalid, players "ready" their abilities also but they can't swap gear. Your tests are total crap, you're just going off numbers on inconsistent mobs. You can test without a doubt using the methods that I showed you. Your screenshots and summoner's agreeing with you mean nothing unless you actually test it with something other than I tested it out in sea. If you really want to test your gear swap theory use it with something where you can count solid numbers such as Blood Pact: Ward or mobs where you'd hit cap easily (ronfaure etc) and use a 1 hit WS.

If you care to see how it really works out you can test it with Blood Pact: Ward and hastega, or you can just stick with that pile of crap you gave and hope people will believe you.

 

[Taisa]

3 tests same result.

Blood Pact - gear:

Physical Attack gear (aka My Macro):

Test #1:
This is in my Blood Pact - gear:

My Macro:

Test #2:
This is in my Blood Pact - gear:

My Macro:

Test #3:
This is in my Blood Pact - gear:

My Macro:

 

[JP]

Looks like an improvement in 3 Tests or 300 Tests it will be the same result almost 100% of the time. I do not personally have Summoner at 75 but whether its before or in the middle of hitting Rage, it will not matter. Putting the Ability Gear before it then switching into it works.