Another "What would you do"

[Mirewen]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32950836/ns/today-today_health/

This happened in Japan as well back in February and she chose to abort the baby. This woman (in America) has decided to carry the baby, delivery the baby, then give it to its biological parents.

It is supposed to the happiest news a couple can get, especially a couple who have difficulty conceiving and carrying babies. The in vitro fertilization procedure had been a success: Carolyn Savage was pregnant.

And then came the horrible news: It wasn’t her baby. The fertility clinic they had used had made an all but inconceivable mistake and had implanted another couple’s embryos into Carolyn.

The Savages were presented with two devastating choices: They could either terminate the pregnancy, something that clashed with their religious beliefs, or they could carry the fetus to term and then hand him over to his biological parents.

That moment is rapidly approaching. Carolyn is 35 weeks pregnant and within the next two weeks will deliver the baby with his genetic parents attending the birth. At that time, the Savages will give up the infant, perhaps never to see or hold him again.

They are telling their story in the hopes that no other couple ever has to go through what they have endured.

“The hardest part is going to be the delivery,” Carolyn said. “I remember communicating with the mother of this child as to what I was envisioning and hoping for. I said, ‘We want a moment to say hello, and goodbye.’ ”

“It’ll be exceptionally difficult,” Sean admitted, even with the eight months they’ve had to prepare and the help they’ve received from mental health counseling. “But at the same time, we’ve been preparing this for months.”

 

[Chasym]

omg fuck that. No way. I dont care if it was officially my kid or not, it was their SNAFU. I would tell them to shove those two options up their ass, sure i would give the kid to the biological parents, under the terms and conditions that i had a place in that childs life for the rest of their life, because if it wasnt for this woman, this kid wouldnt even be entering this world. She didnt have to keep it, yet she made her own cross to bare by doing so, and its going to crush her.

 

[Zaltana]

so the kid will have 3 biological parents?

 

[Morwen]

I would definitely give the child back to its biological parents. You can't just say "Hey, they fucked up, its my kid now" when it was beyond the help of the other couple. It is not your DNA, they are not your eggs and that is not your husbands sperm. It doesn't belong to you.

The clinic should be under swift and fatal fire. If it were me personally I would prepare, as the aforementioned couple has. Then, sue the fuck out of the clinic for physical and mental stress, seeking (at the absolute very least) surrogacy expenses and salary.

 

[Halifirien]

I would've flushed it out the second I learned it wasn't mine.

 

[bigbroon]

I would've flushed it out the second I learned it wasn't mine.

I've always been under the impression you were a male. If you are to enlighten me that you're a female, I'd think your comment was for shock factor alone, and not your true feelings. If you are indeed a male, and you're telling me you'd "flush out" an eight month-old baby because it wasn't yours, I'd be prepared to put a decent amount of money on the fact that you've never had, nor wanted, children.

Children, especially for people who have wanted and tried for one for so long, are not items you lightly "dispose" of as the mood fits. They're a miracle, a gift, that you can't possibly imagine how precious they are. How heartbreaking it would be to find out the child you were carrying is not yours, and that you have no option but to either abort it or hand it over, can only be trully known by someone who has been in that situation.

You can say you'd "flush it out", but in reality you have no idea what your reaction would be. This is where you tell me you're a chick who was in this exact situation last year.

 

[Halifirien]

If you are indeed a male, and you're telling me you'd "flush out" an eight month-old baby because it wasn't yours, I'd be prepared to put a decent amount of money on the fact that you've never had, nor wanted, children.

Except that they didn't discover it was someone else's embryo when it was eight months along. They found out the day they were told she was pregnant. So yes, I feel completely justified in saying I would've opted for an abortion and tried again with my own embryo. I'm not a Christian and don't have that weighing on me.

You're right on the other counts. I'm a guy and never wanted children of my own. I'm content being an uncle.

 

[Novolo]

Depending on how my wife would take it is how i would respond.... I would actually want to abort the baby because i belive abortion is only used when the accident/mistake isnt your fault (meaning Rape basicly). Though she willingly concieved the child... the clinic fucked up. I would demand something for their fuck up, this could cause the woman who had the child pyschological trauma.

 

[bigbroon]

Except that they didn't discover it was someone else's embryo when it was eight months along. They found out the day they were told she was pregnant. So yes, I feel completely justified in saying I would've opted for an abortion and tried again with my own embryo. I'm not a Christian and don't have that weighing on me.

You're right on the other counts. I'm a guy and never wanted children of my own. I'm content being an uncle.

Except there's a bit of a difference between having an abortion and "flushing it out."

I expected the "I'm not religious so flippantly talking about abortion is cool with me" attitude, but you don't have to be religlous to know that abortions are a serious business, and that religion and morals are two totally separate things.

Would you have been happy enough to see your niece/nephew "flushed out?" The fact you've never had, nor wanted, children speaks volumes about the position you're in to comment on this issue.

 

[Halifirien]

Except there's a bit of a difference between having an abortion and "flushing it out."

I expected the "I'm not religious so flippantly talking about abortion is cool with me" attitude, but you don't have to be religlous to know that abortions are a serious business, and that religion and morals are two totally separate things.

Would you have been happy enough to see your niece/nephew "flushed out?" The fact you've never had, nor wanted, children speaks volumes about the position you're in to comment on this issue.

"Flushing it out" is slang for "having an abortion." I wish I didn't have to explain that simple concept, but you seem dedicated to the idea that nobody can be flippant where the concept of abortion is concerned, or that someone can think about it without a deep, deep sense of gravitas. I assure you that's not the case. Not everyone cares that much.

The thread is called "What would you do?" It is not "There's only one way to approach this." I don't disagree with the woman's decision -- it's her womb, she can do what she wants with it -- but not everyone would follow the same path. Some people would simply start over.

 

[Morcheeba]

That would be an incredibly difficult decision, however, if it were me in that position I would probably carry the baby to full term knowing the couple was in the same place my spouse and I were in. It is as unfair to them as it is to us, granted it would probably be more difficult on us emotionally, I believe it's safe to say.

But understanding the immense want, frustration, hope, broken hopes etc that we (both couples) would be suffering I would not want to be part of destroying a dream of theirs either. I would hope to maybe have somewhat of a lasting relationship based on that bond, but I would not expect it

E- of course, all the above mentioned would only be if it were joint decisions.

My question, what if the couple asked the woman to abort and she refused? They would obviously be discarding the child for what-ever their reasoning, but would that then make the woman carrying the child the soul care-giver? What would be the legalities. This strikes question in meh braincranium

 

[bigbroon]

"Flushing it out" is slang for "having an abortion." I wish I didn't have to explain that simple concept, but you seem dedicated to the idea that nobody can be flippant where the concept of abortion is concerned, or that someone can think about it without a deep, deep sense of gravitas. I assure you that's not the case. Not everyone cares that much.

The thread is called "What would you do?" It is not "There's only one way to approach this." I don't disagree with the woman's decision -- it's her womb, she can do what she wants with it -- but not everyone would follow the same path. Some people would simply start over.

I don't see anything in any of my posts that imply I don't understand slang. Your post consisted of one sentence, based on a physical impossibilty in a situation you could never possibly be in, nor understand, and something which you inform me is slang. Would it have been difficult to say "I would have had an abortion?"

"Had an abortion" vs. "Flushed it out". In a topic so sensitive to so many, I know which one I would rather say. But then again, I don't make it my goal to have as much an impact, positive or negative, as I can - clearly you do. Not once did I say an abortion would be the wrong option; I'm picking on you deliberately coming off as an asshole to generate maximum reaction.

Attention seeking on an internet forum, Halifirien's E-peen grows 1 inch.

 

[Mirewen]

so the kid will have 3 biological parents?

No, the woman carrying it has no biological tie to the child. She is basically just a surrogate.

They found out the day they were told she was pregnant. So yes, I feel completely justified in saying I would've opted for an abortion and tried again.

I'm religious and don't agree with abortion (99% of the time), but I actually have to agree with this. A baby causes a large amount of stress on a woman's body, basically as a parasite for 9 months. You don't see it that way when it's yours because you get to have the life, the child, when it is born. Something that you have been preparing for, something that you have wanted. Having it for someone else when it was planned by you to be for you, then to give it up after 9 months spent gestating it when you could try to have one of your own as originally planned... I don't think anyone should have to go through that. Props to her for doing that, but I don't think it should be expected of anyone to do.

 

[Halifirien]

Would it have been difficult to say "I would have had an abortion?".

No, it wouldn't have been difficult to say "I would have had an abortion." It wasn't difficult to say "I would've flushed it out," either. Do you want me to parade around in sackcloth and ashes because I didn't strike what you deem as the appropriate tone for the discussion? Good luck waiting for that to happen.

 

[Zephayra]

I think the couple who are having the other couple's child are completely selfish. Reading the article, they already have three children. They should be happy with what they have. She's 40. Women are not meant to have children past a specific age. They CAN do it, but it isn't recommended, for both biological and social reasons. Her age is probably one of the reasons they had problems concieving. Not to mention that this couple using the invitro program is taking up space for couples who have 0 children (If that's the way it works, I'm just assuming here).

They should give it up, no doubt. It's not theirs, it never was theirs, and they should be thankful that they already have children, and they are giving a couple who want a child one.

 

[bigbroon]

No, it wouldn't have been difficult to say "I would have had an abortion." It wasn't difficult to say "I would've flushed it out," either. Do you want me to parade around in sackcloth and ashes because I didn't strike what you deem as the appropriate tone for the discussion? Good luck waiting for that to happen.

You know what I meant by "would it have been difficult." In sensitive discussions, for myself anyway, I try to be as sensitive as possible, and avoid potentially offensive slang as much as possible. When it comes down to either saying exactly what I mean, or replacing it with slang, I'll always plump for the former. I guess we're just different.

 

[Zyndara]

I think the couple who are having the other couple's child are completely selfish. Reading the article, they already have three children. They should be happy with what they have. She's 40. Women are not meant to have children past a specific age. They CAN do it, but it isn't recommended, for both biological and social reasons. Her age is probably one of the reasons they had problems concieving. Not to mention that this couple using the invitro program is taking up space for couples who have 0 children (If that's the way it works, I'm just assuming here).

They should give it up, no doubt. It's not theirs, it never was theirs, and they should be thankful that they already have children, and they are giving a couple who want a child one.

I really very strongly disagree with you here. So what they have three children? If they want another and they're willing to spend the time and money on trying again, why shouldn't they? I don't see anything selfish at all in wanting to bring another child into the world as long as you are emotionally, financially, and physically able to support them. In this day and age, 40 isn't that old, yes there are increased risks, but you can say that about almost anything after a certain age.

The fact is, when you go to a doctor, a hospital, any medical establishment really, you're investing a lot of trust that they know what they are doing and that they don't make fatal or devastating mistakes. Yes, mistakes happen even in the best hospitals but in situations like implanting eggs, they'd best make goddamned good and sure they are 110% accurate or be ready to pay the consequences. That couple paid in good faith, harvested and saved their own eggs to try for their own child. Imagine the joy in conceiving only to be told a mistake was made. They are agreeing to go through all that pregnancy entails only to go through the most difficult experience in a woman's life then hand off the child to her biological parents to likely never be seen again. What they are doing is very selfless, not selfish. Not even remotely. Selfish would be fuck you and your child, I'm not an incubator and terminating the pregnancy.

 

[Jaide]

I'm not exactly sure what I would do. I have offered to be a surrogate for some friends of mine, but only after I have a child of my own. I have also know the couple since for 15 years for one, having gone to school with him, and 7 years for the other. So there is a bond there and will always be a bond of me being an 'Aunt' to the child.

For a couple that I don't know, and when I am trying to have a child...that is a completely different concept. I would like to think that my husband and I would talk with the doctor and the couple who owns the egg/sperm. But I can't say that that would actually happen. I know I would have a very big problem giving up the child if carried to term, especially if it was my first full term pregnancy. So many factors weigh in on a decision like that.

All four parties, in this type of situation, would need to agree. If the child would be brought to full term I would expect to be paid surrogate costs by the biological parents, as they would be receiving a healthy child with none of the costs that come with pregnancy. I would talk to a lawyer about the possibility of suing the clinic for 1. their mistake, 2. time spent pregnant with a child that isn't mine, 3. psychological distress. If not aborted, I would like to think that I would be allowed to spend time with the family. I seriously doubt that would be allowed though, since most surrogates give birth then disappear out of the child's life.

There are many unknown factors to this story, and unless placed in their position I don't think I could honestly say what I would do if I were them. On one hand, a couple who wanted a child is going to be receiving that child but missed out on the joy and pain of pregnancy and birth. On the other, a couple who wanted a child to add to their family is having the joy of pregnancy, but it is dimmed by the knowledge that the child isn't theirs and will probably never see it again after the birth. Both couples are losing something in this situation.

 

[Acutie]

1 word. Sue.

 

[Mirewen]

I think the couple who are having the other couple's child are completely selfish.

She is carrying it to term and giving it to the biological parents as stated in the article. Because she is doing this rather than aborting it and trying again, she is pretty much giving up her chance to try again and have a kid herself (unless she wants back to back pregnancies which is not recommended at her age). She is being completely selfless, not selfish.

That moment is rapidly approaching. Carolyn is 35 weeks pregnant and within the next two weeks will deliver the baby with his genetic parents attending the birth. At that time, the Savages will give up the infant, perhaps never to see or hold him again.

They are telling their story in the hopes that no other couple ever has to go through what they have endured.

“The hardest part is going to be the delivery,” Carolyn said. “I remember communicating with the mother of this child as to what I was envisioning and hoping for. I said, ‘We want a moment to say hello, and goodbye.’ "

Not sure where people are getting that she's keeping the child.