Any GLBT players out there?

It took me a little long because I needed to cover as much ground as I could because so much scripture is misconstrued and left half finished to be used wrongfully. Im not a pastor here, but im trying my best with my study bible and internet digging.
 
chpal said:
anyway o have some questions for u guys if u care to answer:

1. What do u think or respond when ppl use the bible as proof that homosexuals are evil? that God made a women and a man. "He made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!" lol i heard that in Comedy central

2. What do u say to the ppl who use biology against gays? for example: a man and a women are perfect for each other, they each have a sexual gland that corresponds with the opther

3. Why is the rainbow a symbol of gayness?

4. Do homosexuals consider themselves girls or guys?

5. One ive heard a lot: Do u think homosexuality is something ur born with or do u aquire these feelings later in life?

Thats all for now. I hope i didnt offend anyone. Plz answer if u want, i would like to hear what gay ppl have to say about so called "gays are evil" proof.
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1. I generally ignore any bible bashers as a rule. However, the bible also says its a sin to eat shellfish because it's dirty and not to wear clothing or mixed material...umm...yeah. I'm in no way religious so I guess i'm biased, but I think the principal ideas behind christianity are great, it just gets really fucked up when organized. Also, god is infallible, but the bible was written by men who are, alas, not.

2. Yes, male and female animals corrispond in order to procreate. However, ask any zoologist or anyone else who works with animals in and out of their natural environment if they've seen any "homosexual" behavior among them. There are many documented cases of homosexual behavior amoung various primate families as well as other genus.

3. I'll borrow from www.rainbowcoin.com for this one: Use of the rainbow flag by the gay community began in 1978 when it first appeared in the San Francisco Gay and Lesbian Freedom Day Parade. Borrowing symbolism from the hippie movement and black civil rights groups, San Francisco artist Gilbert Baker designed the rainbow flag in response to a need for a symbol that could be used year after year. Baker and thirty volunteers hand-stitched and hand-dyed two huge prototype flags for the parade.
The flags had eight stripes, each color representing a component of the community: 1. Hot Pink for Sex 2. Red for Life 3. Orange for Healing 4. Yellow for Sun 5. Green for Nature 6. Turquoise for Art 7. Indigo for Harmony 8. Violet for Spirit.
The next year Baker approached San Francisco Paramount Flag Company to mass-produce rainbow flags for the 1979 parade. Due to production constraints the hot pink and turquoise were removed and blue replaced the indigo.
This six-color version spread from San Francisco to other cities, and soon became the widely-known symbol of gay pride and diversity it is today

4. That is why we use GLBT: Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgendered (and don't forget Two-spririted in regards to first nations individuals). It's a transexual that thinks they are the wrong sex and very commonly take steps to become the opposite sex in a more permanently physical way. It's a very complicated issue that I don't think I can do justice to, but www.transsexual.org has lots of info for you.

5. This last question is a very controvertial. The Church and many fundamental groups base their arguments against homosexuality on the fact that it can be changed, is a phase, recruitable, etc. From my personal experience I don't believe this to be so. For me, my feelings towards men started to develop during puberty just like anyone else (except for the man to man thing hehe). I didn't know what to think at first, but it wasn't long before I was really scrared about the implications of being gay. Seeing it portrayed as this evil and disgusting thing doesn't make growing up a fun process, but I made it and am finally happy with who I am (for the most part anyways hehe). This is not something that anyone would "choose" in todays society which is still very ignorant about us. But I would never go back either...you have to play the hand you were dealt my friends.^^

Terribly sorry for the horrendously long post, but I hope some of what I've written clears up a few misconceptions and even makes you think about it a bit. Porum
 
I admit, I was taken by surprise by some homophobic comments in the game. I didn't press for any kind of explanaton -- were they actually directing ire at gay people or joking in a way I'd recognize among my own friends? -- because I was new to the group and didn't know the dynamics yet.

It's one of the more interesting aspects (to me, anyway... your milage may vary) of Final Fantasy XI that I got so wrapped in the roleplaying idea that I forgot there are often guys controlling the Mithra and women controlling the Galka. It was a startling moment to realize that this person I'd been fighting beside and having a great time with for an hour could be someone I might detest in real life (and who might detest me).

That's not going to detract from my experience in the game, because most people are very friendly and helpful and we're all after the same goal: to have fun. But knowing there's something of a safe zone when politics/morals/interests intersect with the game is kinda cool.

On a side note, a helpful player escorted me from Windurst to San D'oria so I could join the RainbowCarnage LS. Good gravy, Vana'diel is a huge place. I had no idea.
 
so your main purpose is like to get a rainbowcarnage Pearl?
and yes there are many helpfull people
you ought to help everyone =P
 
Porum, I ask that you would please read this and not ignore me. I answer all this not because I'm being challenged or anything. I'm honestly looking to clear up some of the arguments used against my faith on a daily basis. I'm asking for understanding is all. I'm actually cornered by my boss once or twice at work and given these arguments and its really frustrating. It just shows a lack of respect for what I believe in because hes trying to tear me down. Don;t do the same to others, plz read this.

Not eating shellfish was part of the Levitical Code. In that time, eating carnivores, rodents, shellfish, and i forgot what else was dangerous because they potentially carried a variety of diseases. Eating such could be dangerous and introducing it to your body wouldnt be right because it is a Temple of God's Spirit. God said in Exodus that if they follow His law, He would keep them from such diseases that existed among the Egyptians, because He is a God of healing. They being the escaped Hebrews from Egypt. Nowadays with modern science, we easily eliminate such dangers. But again, that was under the Levitical Code. It was never really abolished in the New Testament, but its pretty much believed that those practices are no longer needed. This was all under the Old Covenant that Jews and Gentiles alike had to follow before we were reconciled with God through Christ.
I can go research the answer to why other laws were given by God to Moses, but it would be a really lengthy post. but i would be more than willing to do so because its my learning as well. But just to tie up all these arguments about women when they're menstruating, eating what we should, dressing as we should, there are a few verses to look up. In Romans 6:15, paul says that Christians are no longer under the law, but under grace. Grace granted to us through Christ's sacrifice. In Galatians 3:13, Paul says that Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Bear in mind that these were Jewish traditions. Just because something is written in the Bible, doesn't mean its automatically a Christian practice. The Old Testament can almost be thought of as the Torah, well, some of it at least. The Torah is not what Christians follow, we follow the New Testament.
 
Let me put this put there:

So there was Mary, married to Josef, and their marriage was an unhappy one (like statistically a large number or marriages are). Mary was unhappy because Josef just wouldn't want to do her, for reasons unknown. So one day she decides to head out and get some fun elsewhere, but oh my, she got knocked up!

That's be a big problem in those times, getting pregnant from someone other than your husband, they would have stoned her for sure. But girls are crafty, and Mary is no exception, and thus the story of getting pregnant while being a virgin was born.

Ask yourself, which version of the story is more likely?
 
Sculli, thats really blasphemous to begin with and you have your story a bit confused. Mary and Joseph's marriage wasn't already int rouble. The fact that Mary was pregant was why Joseph was upset, at the time he didn't know she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit...and no, dont go and twist that and say they had sex, they didnt. its just the only word i can choose from that is plain enough for you to understand, i could say blessed, but you'd prolly get confused. Anyway, it was Jewish law, not God's that a woman be stoned for adultery. She didn't "head out and get some fun" because Joseph didnt want to have sex with her. Dude, honestly....more and more you lose my respect with very juvenile and ass-like remarks to certain threads. Before you form your own theory as to what happened, get your stories straight...at least chronologically.
 
There we go again, what's blasphemous to one, is a perfectly normal theory to another. Since I do not believe in any kind of gods, spirits, and associated subjects, what I wrote is a theory, nothing more, a plausible theory at that.

I never said it was god's law, how could I possibly say that if I don't believe in god, I did say that she would have been stoned for having sex outside of marriage.

What's amusing to me is how convinced you are that my story is wrong and your's is right. Actually, now that I think of it, that's rather sad.

But since you are such an expert on chronology, why don't you share with us just how long Mary and Josef were married before she allegedly conceived while being a virgin?

Since we are on the subject, how long do people have to be married, and not have any sex, before one can call it a problem?
 
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

They werent married very long were they? Looks like they werent even married for a day...wow...look at that. Sculli, it seems your theory wouldnt make much sense seeing that she didnt really have much time to become unsatisfied with Joseph. Perhaps you were wrong and really dont know what you're talking about and trying to just anger others with asinine ideas. Mary was also really young, perhaps around the age of 15, not exactly that old to have been sleeping around, which by itself would have gotten her into big trouble with the community.

Dude, i have been nothing but polite and cautious in refuting arguments delicately here. Why would you rush in here so quickly and try to cause a ruckus? Im trying to clear up misunderstandings regarding my faith and you're just trying to add more fuel to the fire by posting inaccurate theories.

Now about that link. Whats being proposed isnt blasphemous, no, its a common thought about Christianity. The way this was presented is blasphemous....duh. And being disrespectful towards a religion is blasphemous regardless, its not relative. If i said something disrespectful towards Buddhism, then I'm being blasphemous. Now why you have such an issue with Christians following what they believe is beyond me, it seems like you need to mind your own business more and not let others' lives get to you. Christians arent kissing God's ass. Actually, last I checked, God died for us and we live out our lives normally. We're not enslaved to God, his mercies are new every morning and his forgiveness is as far as east is to west. If anything God has been a servant to us. If you view Christianity in such a way, Im sorry, but thats more sad for you. Im not exactly the best of Christians here, but you dont see me begging God for forgiveness or heaven. I already know I have it because He is not One to condemn. Anyways bro, before you continue with your endeavor to prove Christianity wrong, I suggest you actually learn something about it first.

PS: Generally, ppl had sex on the night of marriage to consecrate it....just to answer you last question.
 
Pseulen said:
Matt 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

They werent married very long were they? Looks like they werent even married for a day...wow...look at that.
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I am looking, and I am not seeing it.
Where does it say that it wasn't even a day?
All it says that they were married, and before the "came together" she was found with a child. For all I know this could mean days, weeks, years, whatever. It also makes perfect sense that Mary was pregnant before Josef did her, so that really doesn't discredit my theory.

I guess it would be normal to have sex the night of the wedding (at the very latest). So if that is what you assume, then indeed, they weren;t together long. If you choose to follow my theory, then obviosuly they didn't do it the night of the wedding, or the night after, or the one after that.

One more thing I am curious about. If a woman gets pregnant, does she know the very same day? I mean even Jesus had to be carried to term, right, so one really wouldn't know for the first I-don't-know-how-many-days that one is pregnant.

Be that as it may, none of us were there, and thus there is no way we could say for sure what happened. What I am really getting at is that I can tolerate velievers just fine, what I am having trouble with are absolutists.

Meaning I much prefer a "yeah, it's possible, but I believe otherwise" to a "nah, no way, it's got to be the way I say it is, no doubt". As far as I know "doubt" doesn't go over well with many though, which is too bad actually.
 
Im not saying I was there, Im going straight off what the bible says, and thats what i accept as truth. Like i said before...ordinarily, traditionally rather, marriage is consumated on the first night. Ok, ill give and say, maybe they didnt do things normally. but in Matt 1:23 it says Mary is with child and she is a virgin. Mary was also approached by Gabriel like it says in Luke 1:26-28 and told that she will be with child, it also says that Gabriel was sent to a virgin in v. 27. So she pretty much knew in one day, and we can confirm that shes a virgin still based on scripture. Joseph knew as well when he himself was approached by an angel in a dream and told not to be afraid to take Mary as his wife because she is with child. Says that in Matt 1: 20.

Anyway dude, i can accept the fact that you want ppl to be open minded about certain things regarding their beliefs, and in certain areas, i totally agree. BUT, there are some things there can be no other view for. The immaculate conception cannot be open minded at all. If Christ was begot from sin, then He cannot be God. The entire Christian faith would fall apart if this was a possibility. Then there are certain areas where open-mindedness can be totally fine, such as the creation.
 
This is my problem with the Christian Faith....When was the last time sex was considered a sin? It's the first step of creation. Tag that on with the complete demonizing of the female side of the race and you can see why even after spending 14 years in a catholic school I'm a little dissenchanted.
 
LOL....more research. I can only touch upon that a little cuz id have to go ask myself, cuz i should know for the future. But God created sex, and within the confines of marriage its awesome. Real simple, God wants you to have great sex, lol.....but its meant for man and wife. Ill seriously go and find out this saturday. for both of your problems. I too kinda notice that some Christians think of women as being instruments of the devil, but that bugs me just as much as it bugs you. So ill go and ask. I mean, yea fine, Eve was decieved by the devil, but you know what, Adam knew he shouldnt have eaten the damn apple. Just because Eve said it was ok based on what she was told, Adam eats it? You tell me who the retard is. The woman is tricked by the king of lies, but the man was decieved by a woman....hmm, who do u think should have had an easier timee refusing? Second, God gave both adam and eve the opportunity to confess, but they played the blame game. Eve blamed the serpent and then Adam blamed eve, which in turned blamed God for Him giving Eve to him. Confusing, but ill find out. And because Im kind of getting a smidge tired and feel a bt under attack here, Ill PM you what I learn. And again, a lot of what was in the Bible regarding women in a dreogatory sense is located in the Old Testament and was Jewish Law. If you go through the New testament, you'd sort of find that women are regarded as blessings from God to a man who finds favor with Him. Not objectifying women, mind you, but emnphasizing their worth. And how men are called to love their wife as Christ loved the church, which literally means....you die for her and love her as you love yourself. theres a lot of heavy stuff regarding women. Anyway, like I said, Im getting a little frustrated with the endless attacks here, so Ill just PM everything.

I only brought all that up in response to chpal's request for what you would say to those dorks who like to claim queers are evil and God hates them. Honestly, did anyone even read what I posted? I had nothing but good intentions which still seemed to blow up in my face.....HOW!? I have Sculli here mocking my faith, others saying they should ignore ppl like me, etc etc. I only tried to help chpal and clear up arguments that have been used against my faith that have always been misunderstood. *sighs* :cry:
 
The reason they're misunderstood is because the worst possible representatives of your faith manage to be the one everyone hears.

Well, that and the fact that it's a illogical system based on wispy evidence and suspension of disbelief. Like all religions.
 
I suppose it is illogical because most of it goes against human nature, and wispy evidence is where faith comes in, which comes from personal experiences. Historical evidence isnt hard to find, but if you're asking for evidence of whether or not God truly exists...no argument can either prove for or against it. Cant do anything about that. *shrugs* dunno, at least u were being general and not targeting me specifically....=/.
 
Pseulen said:
The immaculate conception cannot be open minded at all. If Christ was begot from sin, then He cannot be God. The entire Christian faith would fall apart if this was a possibility.
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Wow, that must really suck if one's entire faith is hinging on such a detail.
Granted, I am no expert in religious matters, but I thought Jesus was the son of god and not god himself, or is it all the same, son or not.

Just for the record, I believe that there was a guy way back when, Jesus, I believe he was like some other great thinkers, way ahead of his time. He tried to teach people how to live better together, but people didn't want to listen (nor do the Israelis and Palistines(sp) want to listen today), and because he was a threat to their way of living, they put him on the cross, for everyone to see to not screw around with the Establishment.
 
Hmmm....this thread is going places I never imagined.

Pseulen: I've read all your posts and appreciate what you are trying to do. You are christian and are trying to defend your faith...that's great. However, just like Sculli, I have no such restriction. Like I said before, I think the principal ideas of chirstianity are great: love thy neighbor, blah, blah blah....but they also just fall into the realm of common sense really. I honestly think all the other shit was added by men for selfish reasons. The demonization of women and hatred towards homosexuals are just an example. Like you said regarding the shellfish, many of the ideas in the Bible are VERY outdated...if you can overlook the shellfish, why can't you overlook two men loving each other and playing bum-darts every once in a while? Oh, and I don't give a damn if your faith "tolerates" me...I don't give a fuck. I really don't see why it should have any ideas on it at all...it's not your business and it certainly isn't God's. You'll have to excuse the tone of my post, but it pisses me off that others and their faith think they have all the answers about something they know nothing about. I'm the gay man here. Just like the colour of my skin or eyes, I had no choice in the matte. So how can it be a sin to do what is natural? Believe in God, but why not use your own mind and determine just what is important and what really matters. Faith is one thing, blind and mindless faith is quite another.

Sculli: Thank you for the wonderful posts...they added some much needed humour and insight to a thread that was becoming much too heavy.
 
Porum, i feel a little better that one person here isnt, in other words, calling me a fool, and that my efforts here arent being taken as threats.

I didnt mean ideas were outdated tho, I dont know how many are going to understand how the Law of Moses was meant for believers before Christ arrived, its not outdated, but no longer needed. We're not under the law, not because of time, but because of Christ's sacrifice.

I dunno when tolerance became a bad word :cry: . When i said tolerance, it means that someone's sexual preference should be of little consequence to what you think, act, behave, etc etc around or to the person. It pretty much meant that, you're there, like us...horray...no big deal. There is no hate anywhere there....the only ppl who do that are those that don't know what theyre talking about. And when I even posted all that stuff...I was trying to equip chpal with a damn good argument for whoever wants to believe otherwise. I mean, how can u argue against someone using your own beliefs against you? Thats what I was trying to do, then things got crazy. I mean, seriously, if u see some lunatic ranting off all that BS, u can throw everything I said right in their face. And chances are, they wont know what the hell you're talking about because they dont know their own religion. How great it would be if you knew it better than them and could refute everything they say and make them look like a fool?

Anyway, this thread, like Porum has come to realize is getting really in depth and bouncing across various topics and if i keep trying to find an answer, this is going to go around in circles and create a mess in the community. Thats the last thing I want because Ive really grown attached to a lot of you here and lately Ive felt really bummed about how everything Ive said has been taken threateningly rather than with the good intentions they were posted with, and I dunno...Ive felt like Ive been the target of an endless barrage of attacks. I'm not exactly on a high-horse here, or claim to know everything...I pretty much vulnerably went out on a limb and tried to defend what I believe after more and more posts started flowing in...had I done nothing, it wouldve been wrong. Wrong in a personal sense. So dunno....Im not gonna post anymore to avoid anymore ill attention this thread has recieved.

Im just gonna leave with this one last analogy for Sculli.
Think of the Trinity as an egg. An egg has the yolk, the white, and the shell. Three different parts, but all together, theyre an egg. Thats kind of the best way I can explain it.
 
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