Arctyrael, Protectorate of the Moronic

This thread is here because a moderator DID go through every post in a thread. Rather than taking it one step further and SPLITTING the thread, he took it one step further and cracked his cute e-whip.

Jamal, you finally did the right thing and continued the discussion started in "The New Tank" in the End Game board, but only after Miros went and locked the original thread. No doubt in my mind the moderator could have done something different, but instead of picking the thread apart and cleaning it we just got locked out of it completely, with the reasoning "I'm sick of people reporting it". Not only that, but Arc was at some points keeping an eye on the thread, and he let the bullshit posts go on too long. I'm not saying that moderation is not without fault, because it's simply not true. Adversely, if you or Caerloc could have taken your bout somewhere else without dominating the thread with the arguement you guys were having, it would have been for the better.

All Caerloc had to do when he noticed people are being arguementative, was open up End Game, post new thread topic "RDM Can Tank HNM", and the problem would have been solved. It's called self initiative. You could have done the same thing and either flamed him here on the FB, or just ignored him for the time being since General Discussion isn't the place for flames. I had some new points I would have liked to bring up in the "New Tank" thread, but now that it's locked it's a bit redundant to have to go through had discuss what we are talking about in a new thread, and now I just don't give a damn about it. It sucks we had to lose that thread.
 
Which, in its own right, is off-topic. People bashed war-tanking 5 or 6 times early in that thread, yet I didn't get my panties in a bunch because someone was over-generalizing the playerbase of my job.
actually they didn't bash war tanking they said that wars are to lazy to tank, but alot of people including me said that wars are already good tanks.

Go up to an average joe. I've explained this already. 10% of the userbase regularly participates in events where RDM would be a succesful tank. To discuss a tank class, you'd have to be discussing something the majority of the userbase would have access to. That's why endgame discussion has its own forum. That's also why when I want something discussed pertaining ONLY to endgame I go there. General discussion involves the majority of the userbase, endgame discussion does not. Those quotes you posted would have made a great start to the spinoff thread, but remember who they were responding to in the beginning of the thread, Hellstorm.
The difference here would be this is what we call a branch debate. Caerloc posted due to several people saying that rdm has no hate tools. After several people saying this as well as rdm can't tank anything above ep he posted a beg to differ post. Which you decided to flame.

Little things here and there I can take. When you make it your mission to punish people who actually use the boards regularly, and have stable internet connections, then yes, I will begin to get annoyed, then offended, then take it personal.

From what I sent to Miros asking for you to be kicked from mod status. Pay special attention to #4, as that is probably the hugest injustice, how you used that thread to take out your angst against people for what you call flamebaiting, yet kept it open because it was controversial:
You do know that I've been on these boards as long as you have right? You join march 2005 I joined in june. as for coming to these board regularly seem i've been here about 1500 more post then you none of which was pc+1.

I think that pretty much sums Hellstorm and his opinions up in the eyes of most people.

Which is another thing that comes from being babied by the moderation staff, idiots don't know they're idiots. People need to know that when they say somthing so stupid and moronic that they're going to be called on it. All opinions are not created equal, and pretending they are is detrimental to the people in question.
well I think you a troll that should been banned long ago
Jamal is a self centered egotistic pompous ass
and skaw see everything through blinders
yet I don't say any of that in every post you post.

Again, it was for NEW TANKS, RDMs have already been tested to work.
according to barajett there not, not even in endgame.

I tried following the topic and got kinda lost and stopped caring. On the subject of moderation here, I think there is too much catering to the instigators of the problems. People who get rated down to a red rating are obviously disliked by the community at large. Thus, we let them hide their ratings. That was fail. Then people go and trollbait by posting completely stupid things outside the flameboard. Someone takes the bait then gets in trouble for it. That is also fail. If a topic in general deteriorates to the point where it looks like a flameboard topic... just move the topic to the flameboard. Don't let the baiters whine and moan to get the others in trouble. Just move it and let them reap what they sowed in the first place. Too much pussery (hey I made up a word) allowed here these days and not enough enforcing of the rules that are actually good ones (like the RL flame rule).
Or you can simply not flame outside of the flame board. Btw only 10% use the dot system that happen to be the 10% of the community that also think the world is flat.

This thread is here because a moderator DID go through every post in a thread. Rather than taking it one step further and SPLITTING the thread, he took it one step further and cracked his cute e-whip.
They should not have to move thread you should learn to control your actions. Btw I did not report any of those post in new tank thread. So skaw there is no conspiracy I don't have mods in my pocket he is just a mod that actually does his job. Only post that I ever reported was the NSFW thread.

The topic was of could be tanks was not specific of endgame or exp. I was debating there ability to tank in exp, if they got a small upgrade in one of the 3 area I discussed. No different then excim bst tank or barjarett sam tank post. There options! The others tried to explain endgame tanking and even said that rdm can't tank in exp party.
 
All Caerloc had to do when he noticed people are being arguementative, was open up End Game, post new thread topic "RDM Can Tank HNM", and the problem would have been solved. It's called self initiative. You could have done the same thing and either flamed him here on the FB, or just ignored him for the time being since General Discussion isn't the place for flames. I had some new points I would have liked to bring up in the "New Tank" thread, but now that it's locked it's a bit redundant to have to go through had discuss what we are talking about in a new thread, and now I just don't give a damn about it. It sucks we had to lose that thread.

Read my supposed 'flames' on caerloc. I suggest multiple times for them to take initiative and create that. My focus being much of the discussion about the new tank was being lost over trivial points that in the end, did nothing for the thread.
 
actually they didn't bash war tanking they said that wars are to lazy to tank, but alot of people including me said that wars are already good tanks.
Thus my point, overgeneralizing the WAR populous as a whole is EXACTLY what was being done to the RDM.

The difference here would be this is what we call a branch debate. Caerloc posted due to several people saying that rdm has no hate tools. After several people saying this as well as rdm can't tank anything above ep he posted a beg to differ post. Which you decided to flame.
Actually I told him to branch it off to a separate thread. After a few more times I got sick of repeating myself...to which I flamed, yes (although in actuality the punishment from Arc is 'flamebaiting')

You do know that I've been on these boards as long as you have right? You join march 2005 I joined in june. as for coming to these board regularly seem i've been here about 1500 more post then you none of which was pc+1.
Yes. In that time you've posted 1 post that made sense (Justice/joy post in Necrosis thread). In your longevity, you've brought nothing but headaches to the table in people trying to understand what the fuck you're trying to say.

well I think you a troll that should been banned long ago
Jamal is a self centered egotistic pompous ass
and skaw see everything through blinders
yet I don't say any of that in every post you post.
according to barajett there not, not even in endgame.
Being a self-centered egotistical pompous ass doesn't make me wrong, nor does it mean I should be banned, nor does it mean you should say that after every post I make.

Or you can simply not flame outside of the flame board. Btw only 10% use the dot system that happen to be the 10% of the community that also think the world is flat.
lol? Lettin rappa handle that one.

They should not have to move thread you should learn to control your actions. Btw I did not report any of those post in new tank thread. So skaw there is no conspiracy I don't have mods in my pocket he is just a mod that actually does his job. Only post that I ever reported was the NSFW thread.

The topic was of could be tanks was not specific of endgame or exp. I was debating there ability to tank in exp, if they got a small upgrade in one of the 3 area I discussed. No different then excim bst tank or barjarett sam tank post. There options! The others tried to explain endgame tanking and even said that rdm can't tank in exp party.

Which is why they won't be considered a tank class by any stretch of the imagination by the general populous. Good try Hells, I will hand it to you. Although your posts here weren't correct by any means, at least you spelled a majority of the words correctly, which warranted a real response.
 
Read my supposed 'flames' on caerloc. I suggest multiple times for them to take initiative and create that. My focus being much of the discussion about the new tank was being lost over trivial points that in the end, did nothing for the thread.

You weren't wrong for what you said in the "New Tank" thread, because his posts didn't belong there. But I can go back and pick out two or three posts of yours that didn't belong there also, since all they were was telling Caerloc that he wasn't contributing. I can see at least two or three of your posts repeating the same things over and over, and I know it's because you were frustrated, believe me, we were all getting impatient with Caerloc. My first post in this thread was in response to the bickering between you two in this thread.

Your post #151 in "The New Tank" thread said everything that needed to be heard, and it could have been left there, really. Those of us that can comprehend understood what you were saying, and arguing with Caerloc over context and content only led to further derailment. And no, Jamal, I know you weren't the only one. It would really be assinine if you and Skaw were the only ones who got in trouble in that thread, since there were several others who were just as bad/worse.
 
You're doing the exact same fucking thing Excim, which is why I called you stupid to begin with. I didn't think I'd have to spell it out. Please, drop that shit. You don't like me, PM me. I showed why I included caerloc as at fault when questioned about it, and why Arc did a shitty job of moderating that thread in general. You're going off on an entirely new tangent.
This is a flame about Arctyreal and his moderation practices. In order to properly flame him, questionable posts WILL be brought to light, and I'd expect some retaliation. Your pointing out of this retaliation isn't by any means useful, I realize what the discussion is.
 
You're doing the exact same fucking thing Excim, which is why I called you stupid to begin with. I didn't think I'd have to spell it out. Please, drop that shit. You don't like me, PM me.


I never said I didn't like you. And I don't see how you could get that from any of my posts. The only personal insult that came about was from you, if I recall.


It would really be assinine if you and Skaw were the only ones who got in trouble in that thread, since there were several others who were just as bad/worse.


See more of my posts. I'm more on topic than you give me credit for. Arguing with Caerloc, by you and by others, got the thread locked. Locking the thread was wrong. Arctyrael letting the shitty posts go for too long was wrong. I have stated that in previous posts.

This isn't a personal attack on you Jamal, as I previously stated. But your arguement with Caerloc in this thread was retarded, and I stand by everything I said about the "New Tank" thread as well.
 
Nobody did get around to giving me that effective summary I wanted... /sad

But anyway, it seems to me that y'all are arguing over bruised egos and hurt feelings and unwillingness to admit that you can be right *and* wrong (in different ways). And it also seems like the argument is all:

RDM endgame tank people: Apples are awesome!
RDM exp tank people: Yes, but they make crappy oranges!
RDM endgame tank people: But apples are still awesome!
RDM exp tank people: Did I not *just* tell you that they make crappy oranges? GAWD.
Occasional knowitall: Pick a topic and stay on it!
Other knowitall: If you want to talk about this, go talk about it in endgame discussion!
Observation that nobody likes to hear: The OP of that topic did say both endgame and exp...
Everyone else: SHUT UP, I ONLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ONE THING, NOT BOTH!
 
you're gonna have to be a bit more specific Vil. that sounds like alot of topics around here.
 
Nobody did get around to giving me that effective summary I wanted... /sad
I gave a short summary right after your post.

But anyway, it seems to me that y'all are arguing over bruised egos and hurt feelings and unwillingness to admit that you can be right *and* wrong (in different ways). And it also seems like the argument is all:

RDM endgame tank people: Apples are awesome!
RDM exp tank people: Yes, but they make crappy oranges!
RDM endgame tank people: But apples are still awesome!
RDM exp tank people: Did I not *just* tell you that they make crappy oranges? GAWD.
Occasional knowitall: Pick a topic and stay on it!
Other knowitall: If you want to talk about this, go talk about it in endgame discussion!
Observation that nobody likes to hear: The OP of that topic did say both endgame and exp...
Everyone else: SHUT UP, I ONLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE ONE THING, NOT BOTH!

The OP said both endgame and exp. Both.
 
That was kind of my point... there are lots of threads on this site where two or more people get all pissed at each other because they're actually talking about different things. Both right about what they're actually talking about, and both wrong for not bothering to talk about the same thing as each other.

Copping an attitude of "well it's not what I'm talking about, therefore you're wrong" is pretty much wrong too (it's a vacuous comeback, after all, with a blatant lack of logical progression from the "if" to the "then"). Better attitude is for each of them to talk about both things. Or alternatively to focus on one thing, with one person going either "I agree with you, but that's not what I wanted to talk about", or "I'll grant your point because I don't know enough about the subject to argue it", or "I'd like to discuss that at some other time or in some other topic, but I'd prefer to discuss *this*, here".

Apples vs. oranges shouting matches rarely end up with a result other than both parties pissed off that the other party is quite obviously not paying attention to their points. Seeing as both parties aren't paying attention to the other's points, for the fairly straightforward reason that they're talking about different things in the first place. :P

And yes, the OP did say "both", but I think it's a bit nitpicky to expect every post to address both, since someone might not have any particular opinion (or knowledge or experience) on one side but want to say something on the other side. A more reasonable reading (and a more reasonable flow of subsequent discussion) would just have both present *in the topic* and allow people to join either or both discussions in whatever post they make. If they want to respond to the exp part, they can; if they want to respond to the endgame part, they can; if they want to respond to both, they can.

Let's face it, SE certainly didn't clarify that they had plans to make a new "exp *and* endgame" tank, just a new tank without situational specifics. So it's a fallacy in the first place to discuss only possibilities of jobs and changes that would allow tanking in both situations. One would think that the lot of y'all would know SE's shortcomings in their PR announcements well enough by now, not to assume something they didn't say. (Let alone generally taking what they *did* say with some grains of salt.)

I see no harm, aside from confusion for those who aren't paying attention, in discussing the possibility of jobs that might make good exp tanks (maybe good, maybe poor endgame tanks) alongside the possibility of jobs that might make good endgame tanks (maybe good, maybe poor exp tanks).

Might be difficult to keep from getting wires crossed (so separate topics *would* be preferable, but aren't necessary unless people start getting confused and responding on one subject to a post on the other subject). So yes, I think that ideally it should have been split out into two topics - one for exp tanks, one for endgame tanks.

However, I don't think that justifies griping at anyone for talking about only exp viability or only endgame viability merely because the OP says "both" when a bit more sagacity would have led them to say "either" to avoid problems. I mean, c'mon, there are *way* better reasons to shoot down an argument than both vs. either. :P
 
I never disagreed with what he said. I said start an endgame discussion thread to discuss it, as it wasn't on topic, just as this isn't on topic now. Dayner among others rated me up for the post that Arc threw the e-parking ticket at me for, for saying dipshits. Real moderation would look to the cause of that.
Caerloc was right in everything he said...frankly, it didn't matter to the outpost. Current RDM endgame tanking says nothing for a future tanking job. Regardless of how you spin it, it was off-topic and didn't belong in the thread. I've never argued differently then that.

To reply to Excim, Caerloc and I weren't the reason the thread was locked. It was locked for lack of moderation splitting up 3 different things rolled into one. They catered to Hellstorm, as skaw mentioned earlier. I've posted Gatttsu's original post in that thread as well where every post hell makes is flamebait.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, which I've already explained in regards to Arc. If you want to keep the thread open for discussion because of the controversy it entails, then you can't start flinging the modstick at people you think went over the line.
 
You're right, this discussion isn't on-topic. But then, occasionally people have to come in and make off-topic points when correcting people who say something incorrect about the game as it is now (as part of their on-topic discussion of how it might change in the future).

Poor example here, but I hope it gets my point across: If I was reading along in some thread discussing, I dunno, a new merit puller, and someone mentioned BRDs can't pull *now* (or worse, then used that claim to back up some argument about a new merit puller), I'd certainly jump in with a correction to prove them wrong - and shoot down their argument based on that claim, if that argument fell apart as a result.

Even though I wouldn't personally be talking about a *new* merit puller, correcting their erroneous claim would see to it that the subsequent on-topic discussion was actually grounded in how the game currently is. So sometimes off-topicness is required in order for on-topicness to have validity. All the logical acrobatics in the world won't help you if a logical basis of your argument is flawed.

Sometimes it wouldn't have mattered. It probably wouldn't have mattered in that poor example I just gave. But sometimes it does. So if you see someone make a factual statement you know to be false, you should generally correct it - whether or not you happen to be technically on-topic in the process.

As for what's on-topic in *this* topic... I honestly have no opinion either way. So unless something else comes up, this will probably be my last post in this topic. (Since I'm done making my points on the off-topic tangent.)

As for why I have no opinion, that's primarily because I have an unclear picture of what Arctyrael did or did not do, and what an ideal mod should or should not have done. So rather than making a fool of myself for blathering on about *that* subject when I know in advance that I won't know what I'm talking about, I'll simply keep my mouth shut. (It's a good policy, I think. More people should follow it.)
 
Think the last post I can make in this already dying topic:

I wouldn't have had to do anything if people would just have left the flamebaiting at the door. Excim and Jamal are both right, I could chosen a different course of action, but I didn't. Instead, I chose to give out infractions to people that broke the rules, put a warning in the thread, and you still continued to ignore the infractions.

How do you explain away ignorance Jamal? Your arguments are already really weak. What about stupidity? I definitely warned everyone in that thread, so there is no way a claim to ignorance is valid.

Sigh, I think I agree with Dejavu at the very beginning. I've seen better flames.
 
Whilst I don't particularly agree with this thread I think it's pretty poor form for a mod to get into a mud slinging match, so to speak.

I disagree somewhat. I feel that a leader should never get into a poo slinging contest with his subordanates. However the mods are not our leaders. They are volunteers QCing our posts / thread topics. If someone wants to call them out then so be it. Now we can see if said mods can hold their own and the quality of their posts indicate their ability to actually do the job they have voluntered for. If anything this should give Arctyrael a chance to show us why he is in the position that he is.

Bilun
 
How is this thread not locked and everyone who posted in it banned and beaten?
 
Think the last post I can make in this already dying topic:

I wouldn't have had to do anything if people would just have left the flamebaiting at the door. Excim and Jamal are both right, I could chosen a different course of action, but I didn't. Instead, I chose to give out infractions to people that broke the rules, put a warning in the thread, and you still continued to ignore the infractions.

How do you explain away ignorance Jamal? Your arguments are already really weak. What about stupidity? I definitely warned everyone in that thread, so there is no way a claim to ignorance is valid.

Sigh, I think I agree with Dejavu at the very beginning. I've seen better flames.

The weakest part of my argument was agreed that it could have been handled differently, and you didn't, so even in that, you conceded you were wrong. Your warnings shouldn't have ever needed to happen dipshit ( :nono: ). Had you moderated successfully, you wouldn't have needed to hand out your infractions.

Racism is a much more serious offense than saying 'dipshit' in a general discussion thread...yet you haven't commented about that at all. Regardless of who was in control of standarsh's character, you reversed your action of banning him for severely racist comments.

Don't forget the Morwen incident either, when I showed you the racist remarks she was making over and over and over, and the entire thread was deleted, but she received no infractions. Instead of giving her any type of infraction, you instead gave me a 6-month for my retaliation. Now 4 months later, your actions are again on the side of the racist postings.

Don't forget you also made up a rule that you I can't modify a title with NOTHING derogatory in it. You should have just stepped away from the boards like Miros said.

Finally, this thread isn't dieing, its the weekend. I rarely go to qcdn on the weekends, and I'm sure others don't as well. One derail went for about 30 posts, there's plenty of substance yet to be discussed.
 
Finally, this thread isn't dieing, its the weekend. I rarely go to qcdn on the weekends, and I'm sure others don't as well. One derail went for about 30 posts, there's plenty of substance yet to be discussed.

This is True seeing as most ppl only post here during work hours and tend to cutt down to enjoy the weekend and play and or go out. This thread can go either way right now, still haven't seen the "smoking gun", but anyways carry on.
 
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