Are you a whm thinking about joining BoL?

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Reply to Kat:

Point taken

I do see the difference

Thankyou for not insulting me, but then again, Kate is and always has been, a wonderfull person! ^^
 
Geneviene said:
Thankyou for not insulting me, but then again, Kate is and always has been, a wonderfull person! ^^

Kat is also a hoochie momma but that's another thread. :shok:
 
Thankee for the compliment. I very much appreciate it.

Anyway, this thread has been over for hours. Guess we all like to bitch just to bitch eh?

PS. <3 Laur and Yanzi^^.
 
Laur said:
Kat is also a hoochie momma but that's another thread. :shok:

Haha, you luv me and you know it^^.
 
Foofighter said:
We have not seen a shining cloth drop in atleast 6-7 Kirins.

Lol, dont remind me foo >.<

Had to buy mine in the end cause this was driving me nuts waiting. Now just awaiting reimbursement when Kirin decides to drop that stinking piece of cloth XD
 
I dont think I will ever understand why everyone jumped on Deci's ass in thie thread. Perhaps it was a predisposition to do so, but it just seems odd to me that so many people had a problem with what he said. I agree a child takes lots of time. I'll also say that you don't need to have one to understand how much.

You would have to be one of the most innept people in the world to think it doesn't eat up your time and that your free time would be gone. Of course, the same could be said for not pulling 10 minutes together to keep 40 friends of yours updated as to your situation.

As deci said, babies are predictable. If you are remotely responsible, you know at least 8 months in advance, baring unforseen circumstances. There is alot of time to prepare, and get things taken care of. Relationship problems are a different matter, but few people were able to pry themselves away from the notion that a baby way too important to do anything else, to give this as a semi-valid reason as to his absense.

All of my friends, and even people I detest, have had more than enough time following childbirth to keep their friends updated with both frequet stories and tons and tons of baby pictures. Its bullshit to say there isn't still some free time in your day after having a kid. All Deci said was that he got updated twice in over 6 weeks as to the goings on. Video game or not, we are real people, we do like to know what is going on with our friends. We do like to know you're alive, that something horrible hasn't happened, that you'll come back and play with us the way you did before. But when someone wasn't able to do that, everyone got all weird on someone who criticized him for being unnable to keep up a relationship that he was more than willing to participate in, but couldn't give the time of day to when something else happened.

If everyone else can spam my mailbox with baby pictures, why cant this guy make a post every few days?
 
Under "normal" circumstances you are right Bigboy. The circumstances surrounding Pepsii and the baby are definitely far from normal. They've had job issues, living arrangement issues, baby issues, parent issues, internet issues and relationship issues.

From what I've read, it sounds to me like he was not only taking care of his significant other, his mother, his job, his home, but also his child. That's a lot for a young man to deal with.
 
Bigboy said:
I dont think I will ever understand why everyone jumped on Deci's ass in thie thread. Perhaps it was a predisposition to do so, but it just seems odd to me that so many people had a problem with what he said. I agree a child takes lots of time. I'll also say that you don't need to have one to understand how much.
It's because of the wide rift between those who are dead serious about the game and those who play it to leisurely pass time.

I never was in FFXI end-game, but in the EQ end-game guild I ran the policy was the same: If you can't participate, GTFO.

It's nothing personal, and we always recognized the need for people to do whatever it is they do in real life to better themselves. There were no hard feelings either way, but we absolutely needed those who were in the guild to be active, or leave.

Why? Because if you want to do end-game stuff, then you need a certain amount of people, and a good combination of classes. Our guild had 53 members total (some mules), 42 of which were online every single night, 6 days a week. Raids were laid out with the understanding that those people (classes) would be online at a certain time, for a certain period of time. We had a waiting list of people who applied to the guild but were not accepted because we simply didn't need more people, they were at times invited as replacements to guild raids, or additions to guild sponsored open raids. Whenever a spot would open up, those who were most proactive during their application phase in seeking out guild members to group with were given priority to join.

If someone had a real life happening over a weekend or an evening or whatever, that was never a problem, a temporary replacement was found for those days. However, child birth was grounds for guild removal. For the sake of the guild, and for the sake of the child.

We removed quite a few players over the years due to child birth, but the difference being that those who were removed were given a farewell ceremony and retired (from the guild, not the game for the most part) with full honors (and all their gear, regardless of whether it was tradable).

In the end it is up to the LS how they handle such cases. Those who join the LS are presumably aware of the rules and agree to them.
 
Kat said:
Under "normal" circumstances you are right Bigboy. The circumstances surrounding Pepsii and the baby are definitely far from normal. They've had job issues, living arrangement issues, baby issues, parent issues, internet issues and relationship issues.

From what I've read, it sounds to me like he was not only taking care of his significant other, his mother, his job, his home, but also his child. That's a lot for a young man to deal with.

I agree, Busta had good reason in this particular case, but these were not the reasons people were attacking Deci for. People were telling Deci that children took more time he could possibly know and that he was an uncarring bastard for thinking the way he did.

Now I wont comment on wether he is an uncarring bastard, but I will say his comments on this shouldn't be what makes him one. If all the other people who jumped in on this had cared to mention the rest of the story, like you did, I think it wouldn't have come accross as just being angry at Deci because they don't like him. It was [parents vs. Deci] the whole time, and I don't think it was fair. I also don't think most people who commented on this were telling the truth, or being remotely rational.
 
decidence said:
Is this thread possibly the fastest to 20+ pages?
When I started reading it this morning, this thread was 11 pages. Right now, 28. I haven't even gone for my coffee yet.

Definition of frustration, right thurr.
 
I have a solution to BoL's WHM problem :D melees should level RDM, BLM, WHM, SMN, PLD, NIN, or BRD. Melees in general in endgame aren't needed and don't match damage of a SMN and BLM anyways. We all know in end game the only melee that might actually prove their worth are MNK with chi blast, THF for TH even then.. meh. Melee = useless end game for the most part :D make the melee level mages all right!

(by the way.. I'm not entirely serious >.> partially serious cause yes.. mages and tanks tend to be of more use end game than melee but melee are fun to have for SC, Pop control, things that are strong against magic like pots and shit and whatnot).

Anyways.. issue doesn't seem to be getting anywhere and both sides are right and wrong (partially.. as so many have pointed out already). Wrong for Busta to want a Nobles knowing he'd have huge responsibilities in real life, wrong for WYS to kick Busta the way he did. Etc.

Truth be told to everyone.. if you KNOW you aren't gonna be able to help the LS out so much when needed than don't EXPECT you should get everything on your wish list or especially the BIG items so easily. I certainly know I can't help my LS out too much cause of college classes and whatnot and I don't expect anything.. if it's an item I can buy I'll work for it myself and if it's rare/ex than I'll just wait over time until I get it and when I do I plan to be around whenever I can as I want to be around as much as I can now. Greed seems to be a problem for so many on this server.. greed and selfishness. So many that think they deserve stuff after only a few weeks of playing in an end game LS maybe showing up to 5-7 events at most compared to members that have showed up to FAR more events and have been loyal for as long as the LS has been around. Than there are those that think they should get things first on all their jobs they wanna play >.> anyways.. this issue done yet?
 
Foofighter said:
Wrong. Atleast a day to farm pop items. Then another day to fight gods with those pop items. Then another day for Kirin. As busy as sky is these days and Ullikimi it is near impossible to farm all pop items in 1 day. We have not seen a shining cloth drop in atleast 6-7 Kirins. Hence about 4 months or so has not produced a shining cloth, but has produced 3 Osodes.

I have no comment on this situation, just clearing up misinformation.


actually youre wrong. weve done what youve written on numerious ocasions. all pop items, all gods and kirin. just because its hard doesnt mean it cant happen. wake up saturday, farm items, afternoon pop gods, night kill kirin.
 
Elemmire said:
Anyways.. issue doesn't seem to be getting anywhere and both sides are right and wrong (partially.. as so many have pointed out already). Wrong for Busta to want a Nobles knowing he'd have huge responsibilities in real life, wrong for WYS to kick Busta the way he did. Etc.

Truth be told to everyone.. if you KNOW you aren't gonna be able to help the LS out so much when needed than don't EXPECT you should get everything on your wish list or especially the BIG items so easily. I certainly know I can't help my LS out too much cause of college classes and whatnot and I don't expect anything.. if it's an item I can buy I'll work for it myself and if it's rare/ex than I'll just wait over time until I get it and when I do I plan to be around whenever I can as I want to be around as much as I can now. Greed seems to be a problem for so many on this server.. greed and selfishness. So many that think they deserve stuff after only a few weeks of playing in an end game LS maybe showing up to 5-7 events at most compared to members that have showed up to FAR more events and have been loyal for as long as the LS has been around. Than there are those that think they should get things first on all their jobs they wanna play >.> anyways.. this issue done yet?

Wasn't really wrong for wanting one. Might not have been entitled to get one at that point, but everyone wants. Lots of LS seem to have this rule that you aren't supposed to join because you want loot, but rather because you want to help better the LS. I might be cynical, but this is about as pointless as a "You must be 18 or older to enter this website. Click ok to continue." message on some websites- as if 17 year olds turn back. Anyone with half a wit would say "Yah I'm here because I wanna make everyone else stronger except me" and get their pearl and loot regardless. It should just be accepted that a good majority of players do join endgame because they want to enhance their own characters. If the leader of the LS is willing to lie and backstab a member in return for a good deed, can his LS really hold the almost common knowledge lie of joining to get good loot against the members?
 
Geneviene said:
But BoL is a business, you cant tell your employer well I had a baby so Im not going to work for 2-3 months, but Im gonna go ahead and keep the mansion you gave me.
Its just business, nothing personal. Get back on the horse and earn the tunic back, or dont. Its as simple as that

It's pretty sad how much BoL has changed from what it used to be.

That's another reason why I left.


They treat this game like a fucking day job. Probably see this game more than they see the sun.

Get real, some people have lives.
 
Absolutely amazin, how much comment this thread has generated... but then again, maybe not. Maybe instead it's just surfaced a problem that desparately needed surfacing.

Endgame play is an order of magnitude more involved than play to that point - it requires larger alliances, sometimes multiple alliances, and often some verysophisticated strategy and organizational skills. Each person's play has to step up too. So yes, it is more involved. But that level of involvement also requires some prioritization and some reality checks. We're gaming. It's supposed to be fun and (hopefully) exciting overall. It's supposed to be challenging (at least, for us it is).

So, those approaching 75 should maybe think about those things when looking at endgame shells. Here are a few things you may want to evaluate before you decide to join an endgame shell, and in deciding which shells you might want to consider.

1. Do you need a break? Getting to 75, especially those last few levels, can be a grind. Maybe you have other things you want to do to round out your character, like going for rank, or fame, or doing those quests you've always wanted to do, or promys (at least the initial ones), or sky (generally required for most endgame linkshells anyway) - or leveling subjobs or alternate jobs, or bcnm'ing, or just plain exploring (which can be a very fun thing to do). If you need a break, you might want to seriously consider taking one and just enjoying your uber bod.

2. What's your purpose in joining an endgame linkshell? Is it abjuration armor? or af2? or other nifty stuff? or learning to play sophisticated alliance or multi-alliance play, or just becoming better at your job? (me, me, ME! ^^), or because the shell has people you like and like to party with? or that its goals are the same as yours? Or some of the above? Answering these questions will help you a lot in finding what you're looking for.

3.. What's out there? Who's looking for what? Do you have what they need? Do THEY have what you need? (see 2 above).

4. A lot of endgame shells are specialized - gods only, dynamis only, other things, all of the above, some of the above, etc. How does that fit?

5. Will their schedule work for you?

6. What kind of time commitments will there be beyond standard scheduled events?

Those are many nuts and bolts questions - assuming all of the previous questions have the right answers, we get to the important stuff.

7. What is their attitude towards you and other recruits? Are you a lowlife who should be so greatful for an invitation that you should not question anything? Or are you a potential friend and member of the family? Or is it somewhere in between?

8. Are you required, either in writing or as a practical matter, to forsake all otehr shells, or activities, or friends, etc?

9. Will some people outside the shell automatically not talk to you if you join that shell? Will you feel any pressure to not talk to them?

10. Do you feel their leadership is cliquish? Do you feel it is trustworthy?

11. Does it feel more like a business deal, or more like joining something rewarding? Are the members friendly and supportive?

12. How well organized is the shell? Do they have their own webpage? Is it used frequently by all members?

13. Do things get communicated well? Are the calendars up to date, and set far enough in advance that you can plan for things?

14. Does leadership address problems in a reasonably mature manner, and in a manner that generates trust?

15. Is the leadership sufficiently robust that 2 or 3 leaders can be absent for an extended period (dealing with rl events), without the shell coming to a standstill?

16. Do they have good strategies? Do you have access to those strategies? How experienced is the leadership?

17. When problems arise, do they work with the problem rather than attack the messenger?

Final questions - Important to many (most common reason for people leaving an endgame shell, rather than being kicked)

18. What is their system for divying up loot or items? Is it equitable? Is it understandable? (Believe it or not, most writings I've seen on this issue assume you already have a lot of information, are nonexistent or are not really very coherent or comprehensible)

19. Is it transparent? Will you always know where you stand?

20. Is it followed? Or do exceptions swallow the rule?


This is all off the top of my head. And of course the answers don't have to all be top line satisfactory - a startup endgame shell would have a hard time meeting a lot of these criteria. Many shells have a probationary period - which is good. What you should realize is that you can be evaluating them at the same time.

I'm in an endgame shell now. I like it a lot. The people are friendly, and supportive. They do not require that I "forsake all others" to be one of them, which is a wonderful thing, as I help lead a non-endgame linkshell and I'm committed to helping others progress in their games. They're well organized and plan things out. And my endgame linkshell and the people in it have helped me to improve my play tremendously.

I'm still paying my dues with regard to participation, showing up, being on time (trying like hell to, anyway), etc. But I've never had and issue with that or seen anyone else have one in this shell. And they're well aware from my application that yeah, I'd love to have all the uber endgame gear, and will work for it, but that the experience and growth are far more important to me. Only things I need to do are to continue improving as a mage ( yah, I'm a whm - one of "them"), and to somehow figure out a way to overcome my "morning person-ness" and stay with em till the wee hours, without getting qwertyface.

Final notes First, leading an endgame shell requires special people - I admire anyone or any group that can lead and perpetuate an engame shell - and I also don't envy them at all. It takes a lot of person or persons to do that.

Second - I know Bustaballs, and I know his lady. They're decent, nice, fun people. They're good players. I can see how what happened would sour anyone to the game. And I truly hope they don't leave, because I've enjoyed their company, and their leaving would be a true loss. Nuff said.

Sincerely,
Firebrand
 
Dowzer said:
It's pretty sad how much BoL has changed from what it used to be.

That's another reason why I left.


They treat this game like a fucking day job. Probably see this game more than they see the sun.

Get real, some people have lives.

fine and dandy, Tyrath, but others need to realize they shouldn't necessary deserve an item if they haven't put in as much effort as those that do play so much.
 
Elemmire said:
fine and dandy, Tyrath, but others need to realize they shouldn't necessary deserve an item if they haven't put in as much effort as those that do play so much.

Then why did they give it to him...and not another WHM ? huh?


Yes and secretly Tyrath and I are the same person ;o_O;
 
Firebrand said:
Absolutely amazin, how much comment this thread has generated... but then again, maybe not. Maybe instead it's just surfaced a problem that desparately needed surfacing.

Judging by your join date i assume you're new to the boards, don't take this wrong when i say this: this is a bi-monthly thing for BoL, you shoulda been around when it was weekly or daily. Aside from that there's nothing new in this thread anyone wasen't aware of about a good chunk of them.

Endgame = drama, plain and simple.

firebrand said:
We're gaming. It's supposed to be fun and (hopefully) exciting overall. It's supposed to be challenging (at least, for us it is).

That was a very good post, id've quoted more but it was huge.
 
god damn you hume darks >.> getting you confused... bah! And they did point out why they gave it to him.. cause they wanted to get the LS stronger and giving a WHM that tunic made the LS stronger and they felt he could be trusted with it and participate as much as they needed or whatever. Now.. that might not be great reasons but that's what I got outta it. But I have always believed that it takes far longer than 2 months to earn gear that's rare or so expensive as the nobles tunic. The fact he got it in 2 months was very kind, in my opinion. Disappearing for a month for RL is ok but giving back the Tunic until you return would have been best. They wouldn't have sold it and they would have still had that tunic to make use of. It was wrong for them to kick him after they took the tunic back instead of letting him get a chance to continue being there and "earing" it (cause it was pretty obvious he was willing to do that from what I've gathered). But reason was given as to why it was given to him in the first place. They should have prolly made it more clear though that they've had issues with WHM in the past taking things and leaving and made it clear they want to make sure it doesn't happen this time but that's in the past now too.. soo.. all in all I think Busta should appologize for not letting the LS use the Tunic while away but WYS should appologize for kicking him without giving him a chance and should let him back in and try to avoid things in the future like this (and make it known to Busta, if he joins again, and other members that things won't go so fast as this with the kicking).
 
Busta apologized several pages back. WYS on the other hand, only came in to flaunt an ego and tell people they weren't worthy to post. A leader should lead by example. If a LS is unhappy with the honesty/decency of its members, they should look to the top and see the parallels. You reap what you sow.
 
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