Ban Pchan - Peregrine 2.

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Actually, it was considered Flamebait when Hellstorm did it. Just that kind of died out and he stopped posting.
 
Just because you consider it flamebait doesn't actually make it so.
 
I did a search for "flamebait" and as you'd expect, a lot of the Hellstorm fiasco was called up. I browsed through it for people penalized for flamebaiting, or even referred to as flamebaiting by the staff. Arc penalized Skaw and there was a big controversy there. Baj's name came up in the same instance. I saw people who weren't staff calling Hellstorm a flamebaiter, but the whole Hellstorm fiasco seemed to me to involve the staff shielding Hellstorm from everyone else. The people who don't like him levelled flamebait charges against him, but that was the end of that. Those sorts of accusations hold about as much water as if I accused you of flamebaiting. Pretty much none. I don't know exactly how flamebaiting should be defined. I don't think any two people agree on it, either. But I know that the people who've actually gotten in trouble for it are the ones most vocal here, and not the ones most rallied against. Hellstorm and Pchan haven't flamebaited yet, not in the eyes of anyone who's oppinion matters. I don't think my oppinion matters either. You need to have authority to matter in situations like this. Do I think they were flamebaiting? To a certain extent I think they were, towards the end when the outcome of a certain post was guaranteed, but my oppinion means nothing either. Get Arc and Miros to call it flamebaiting. Then you can get something done.
 
Bajaratt said:
At this point, he's blatantly flame baiting. He keeps posting the same stupid crap, and it keeps generating the same responses; not even pchan is dumb enough to think that he'd get a different response on the 1,000th attempt. Peregrine was banned for the same reason, the constant flame baiting and derailing of threads with his stupidity; it's a precedent that should be followed. Hellstorm does the same thing, with his retarded whining about making rdm a melee job.


No, they really don't. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it better; you don't just ignore the oil light or the gas light on your car when it goes off, you do something about it. Ignoring him doesn't magically make him smarter, but banning him would remove his stupidity from the boards.
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I think I've ignored this long enough, but Pompidou is correct in my opinion.

I've moderated for worse offenses by 'well known members', yet my actions were not backed by the populace, only Miros and a few others. As Peregrine was before my time, I can't comment on the discussion regarding his account, but I can say he was far more actively vindictive than Pchan in any comments he made. I never did understand why, because Pere is pretty cool inside FFXI.

It keeps coming up that we're defending the users the populace dislikes. If thats how you view it, I don't think I will change anyone's opinion. I can say though, I don't see our actions like that at all. When it comes down to it, we give the users you refer to infractions for rule breaking just like everyone else. Mere stupidity is not a flamebait. Assuming it was, I have no idea how I could defend any moderation based around that idea, especially as it applied to people outside that group; people would have my head. If you don't think so, here's going back to the novel idea that opinions are relative, imagine if I slapped everyone in this thread with an infraction. (I find this discussion a healthy one, but assume my opinion was different.)

I try to take everything into context. Pchan has a PUP complex -- nothing more. At least someone thinks the job is worthy.
 
Sharpe said:
Well as long as Pchan goes unchecked with flamebaiting outside of the flameboard I guess we are all allowed to flame him outside the flameboard?
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No, but I feel I must mention once more the "report post" feature located at the bottom left of every post. That is one anomaly I don't understand, for all the flamebaits claimed, I see very very very few reports in regards to posts by Pchan. If it is a flamebait, we'll deal with it.
 
Yea, I think no one reports Pchans posts because we're so flabbergasted (yes flabbergasted) someone would actually say that. Rather than report, we flame (in response to the flamebait).

But in all honesty, if Pchan posts start getting reported, instead of this thread the moderators are going to have a report war (people who report pchan will get their posts reported by his friends) and I don't really see the issue resolving that way, just more work for the mods to sift through what is actual flaming and what is just crossfire.

Edit: Don't take that critically Arc, I just think it's a reality of what this situation is.
 
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give the man a break, he's not as old as me yet. :nono:

i don't use that report feature either, although i should. i usually just ignore the idiot posts of others. unless it strikes a nerve with me, or I'm bored, i don't give it the time of day. I agree with both arct & jamal, even though i still owe him a sidewinder upside his head :mad:, if the report function is used properly the trash would get taken out much quicker. but if we use it on a popular poster, that none the less deserves it, it could open the floodgates.
 
Zaltana said:
give the man a break, he's not as old as me yet. :nono:

i don't use that report feature either, although i should. i usually just ignore the idiot posts of others. unless it strikes a nerve with me, or I'm bored, i don't give it the time of day. I agree with both arct & jamal, even though i still owe him a sidewinder upside his head :mad:, if the report function is used properly the trash would get taken out much quicker. but if we use it on a popular poster, that none the less deserves it, it could open the floodgates.
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If the current number of mods can't handle it, then there needs to be a shake up anyways. I'd rather see 10+ reported posts than see people breaking the rules by returning flamebaits with their own instead of reporting the offending post.

And dear God, if you report a post, don't quote the offending post in a reply... Thats just bad etiquette.
 
Arctyrael said:
If the current number of mods can't handle it, then there needs to be a shake up anyways. I'd rather see 10+ reported posts than see people breaking the rules by returning flamebaits with their own instead of reporting the offending post.

And dear God, if you report a post, don't quote the offending post in a reply... Thats just bad etiquette.
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REPORTED
 
I c wut u did thar
 
Every post I've reported has been taken care of within 24 hours. The report post function works wonderfully.

If there is such a huge problem with Pchan violating rules, report him. Everyone. Everytime you see it. That will help establish the impact. If there are 15 ligitimate reports per day, there will undoubtedly be more infractions handed out. The more infractions, the closer to banning. Or to a change in the offensive behavior. Either way, it would solve the problem.
 
I'd have a lot more faith in the report function(and consequently use it more) if anything ever happened regarding the posts I've reported. Hell, I've even seen the mods participating in the discussions spawned by the reported post. Yet, they responded quite quickly when I told pchan to shut up.

In the last three days(not just because of this thread), my faith in the moderation of these boards has dropped significantly, and I'm starting to sympathize with the other people who have been bitching about them for some time now.
 
Not doing exactly what you want != doing nothing at all. There are blatant flamebaits in this thread that I reported and they didn't get deleted. I can't say that nothing was done about them - a PM could have been sent in warning, etc. I don’t know. And I don't need to know. It is not my responsibility to make sure the mods are doing their job, nor do I think they should have to moderate according to my own personal standards.

Maybe the mod staff disagreed with me about what I reported in this thread; maybe they don't view those posts as flamebait. Not much I can do there, its a subjective matter.

I know how hard moderating a forum like this can be, and you can't please everyone. The best you can do is what you feel is the right thing to do - and that may not be in line with popular opinion. I'm a hell of a lot more comfortable with a mod staff that will examine the situation and make their own decision about what is right instead of saying "we have 23423478263 outspoken members saying 'I don't like this guy! Ban him!', so lets just ban him to shut them up."

I'm not invalidating anyone's reasoning for wanting to ban Pchan, however, I don't see how we have so many people complaining that he isn't banned when so many of them admit to not following the current processes that are in place to help fix problem behavior.
 
jamal said:
Yea, I think no one reports Pchans posts because we're so flabbergasted (yes flabbergasted) someone would actually say that. Rather than report, we flame (in response to the flamebait).
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This is the post that strikes home. Everyone is so flabbergasted that someone would actually say something to the effect of Pchan that you flame him. Saying something that causes flabbergastion (word, i think so) isn't flamebaiting, as much as everyone would love it to be so. Flaming is against the rules and infractions should be passed out as such, however,


Makelith said:
Just because you consider it flamebait doesn't actually make it so.
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I don't agree with anything that pchan has ever said, and i doubt i ever will with his pup complex, but that isn't ban worthy. This means that either rules need to be amended/made or people will just have to deal. Since i don't think that stupidity will ever be a bannable offense, that really only leaves one option. Just put Pchan on ignore or skip over his posts. After all, that is what the majority of people told Jyak to do when he asked why he couldn't put Rappa on ignore. Things don't suddenly change just because you don't like who is doing.
 
Bajaratt said:
I'd have a lot more faith in the report function(and consequently use it more) if anything ever happened regarding the posts I've reported. Hell, I've even seen the mods participating in the discussions spawned by the reported post. Yet, they responded quite quickly when I told pchan to shut up.

In the last three days(not just because of this thread), my faith in the moderation of these boards has dropped significantly, and I'm starting to sympathize with the other people who have been bitching about them for some time now.
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I assure you, there is deliberation on 95% of all reported posts. Your most recent one has a few responses. The mods don't attempt to hold hands, nor is that their job. We try to decide what is appropriate, what is questionable and if we should go with it, and what is unacceptable. There is a very large gray area.
 
Arctyrael said:
I assure you, there is deliberation on 95% of all reported posts. Your most recent one has a few responses. The mods don't attempt to hold hands, nor is that their job. We try to decide what is appropriate, what is questionable and if we should go with it, and what is unacceptable. There is a very large gray area.
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Unless it's a porno post. In which case I save the pictures/links for later and delete the post. I don't like anyone getting the fabulous porno we receive on this site. I was pretty upset when everyone got the washing machine girl. ; ; I thought she was only for me.
 
How was Anthro-Con
 
Arctyrael said:
I assure you, there is deliberation on 95% of all reported posts. Your most recent one has a few responses. The mods don't attempt to hold hands, nor is that their job. We try to decide what is appropriate, what is questionable and if we should go with it, and what is unacceptable. There is a very large gray area.
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That gray area is entirely subjective to the mod's own personal preferences. Discussion of some illegal acts is insta-banned from the forum, while others is perfectly alright, even though it's actually a more severely punished crime; and the distinction seems to be completely at the mod's discretion. Our posts get deleted for mentioning a pirated movie/game or we get an infraction for telling someone to shut up, but we can call each other every racial slur in the book while talking about the ways we can break every drug enforcement law on the books, and the mods will happily join in the discussion.
 
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