Ban Pchan - Peregrine 2.

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Miros said:
Unless it's a porno post. In which case I save the pictures/links for later and delete the post. I don't like anyone getting the fabulous porno we receive on this site. I was pretty upset when everyone got the washing machine girl. ; ; I thought she was only for me.
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can i report you for being selfish? :mad:
 
Bajaratt said:
That gray area is entirely subjective to the mod's own personal preferences. Discussion of some illegal acts is insta-banned from the forum, while others is perfectly alright, even though it's actually a more severely punished crime; and the distinction seems to be completely at the mod's discretion. Our posts get deleted for mentioning a pirated movie/game or we get an infraction for telling someone to shut up, but we can call each other every racial slur in the book while talking about the ways we can break every drug enforcement law on the books, and the mods will happily join in the discussion.
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Some of that isn't due to the mods, but from Reeve (i.e. read language). The other stuff I appreciate in the same light as you, which is to say I don't. Unfortunately your examples are off a little. The pirated movies/games definitely raise legal implications. I don't think the discussion you reported really had the same problems.

Just for the kicks, since you mentioned it was drug enforcement, the topic reported is probably known. I worked in a pharmacy for three years. We had people come in all the time asking how to 'detox' and it was the pharmacists that replied if THC was in your system, it isn't leaving until it runs its course. I have no idea if that detox shit works or not, but based on those comment, it won't matter one way or another if people try to circumvent drug laws.

As for "slur exchanges" on the board, the flameboard is the flameboard. If someone makes a dick out of themselves, slurs or not, its on the flameboard -- do as you like in return. (No IDs and I'm fine) Anywhere else and I say slurs equivocate to flamebaiting.

As for "infractions" telling someone to shutup (i.e. you, yea another public topic) -- it may appear a double standard because I know after reading a lot of the endgame discussion topics, we've missed a lot of what I would consider baits. Eh, my apologies there, its just a fact of the matter. Its like a line of cars speeding on the highway, but the officer chose you to pull over.

Anyways, not sure how this relates to OP, but in a roundabout way I suppose it applies.
 
Why is this nine pages long? If people want Pchan banned for being an idiot and point out example after example of him being an idiot and disrupting threads, then ban him. Nobody cares about "injustice" on a video game board and people need to stop trying to play the snowball card and yelling about mob mentality. Maybe it seems like the most active users think Pchan is dumb because they've been around enough to see his dumbass posts. It's not some wild conspiracy against him.
 
If nobody cared about injustice, the thread wouldn't be nine pages. It's nine pages because you're wrong. I know I for one, try and stick up for the QCDN pariahs when I can. I thought it'd lead to my becoming one, myself. I was wrong. There's a silent crowd of people who apparently agree with me enough to supply all my dots. I certainly didn't get them from my FFXI knowledge... I'm not naming them, because if they wanted their oppinions public they'd be posting too, but some of the names are surprising, to say the least. So yeah, QCDN isn't as cold and calloused as you might think by only reading the posts of a very vocal few.
 
Pompidou said:
If nobody cared about injustice, the thread wouldn't be nine pages. It's nine pages because you're wrong. I know I for one, try and stick up for the QCDN pariahs when I can. I thought it'd lead to my becoming one, myself. I was wrong. There's a silent crowd of people who apparently agree with me enough to supply all my dots. I certainly didn't get them from my FFXI knowledge... I'm not naming them, because if they wanted their oppinions public they'd be posting too, but some of the names are surprising, to say the least. So yeah, QCDN isn't as cold and calloused as you might think by only reading the posts of a very vocal few.
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This made me decide to speak up.

While there may be a silent crowd that hasn't bothered to post supporting you, I'm sure there are also a number of people who are sick of pchan chiming in on every barely-related post with not "opinions", but facts which are incorrect. This is constant, despite the information other people bring, and that's the point where it becomes flamebait.

Moreover, a large number of people should not be required to account for this. Whether or not you can stomach pchan's posts, they are the disruption here, not everyone else. If these posts were dealing with pchan's opinion, that would be one thing. Since they are dealing with discussion of facts in most cases, this won't cut it.
 
Pompidou said:
If nobody cared about injustice, the thread wouldn't be nine pages. It's nine pages because you're wrong. I know I for one, try and stick up for the QCDN pariahs when I can. I thought it'd lead to my becoming one, myself. I was wrong. There's a silent crowd of people who apparently agree with me enough to supply all my dots. I certainly didn't get them from my FFXI knowledge... I'm not naming them, because if they wanted their oppinions public they'd be posting too, but some of the names are surprising, to say the least. So yeah, QCDN isn't as cold and calloused as you might think by only reading the posts of a very vocal few.
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If you're going to use the number of rep dots you have as support for your position, you might want to think again. Most of the people who have been asking for him to be removed have more dots than you. So by the "dot standard," we'd win easily.

This thread isn't 9 pages long because we're wrong, it's 9 pages long because we have people repeating weak arguments trying to defend him(friend defense, slippery slope crap) and the mods chimed in saying we had to fill out all of the paper work(post reports) if we wanted it done. The length has as little to do with justice as pchan's posts have any intelligent substance to them.

You can consider yourself a champion of the downtrodden all you want, it doesn't actually make it true.
 
Bajaratt said:
If you're going to use the number of rep dots you have as support for your position, you might want to think again. Most of the people who have been asking for him to be removed have more dots than you. So by the "dot standard," we'd win easily.
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Missing the point of what was being said. Nothing about number of dots, but who are giving him the dots.

Bajaratt said:
This thread isn't 9 pages long because we're wrong, it's 9 pages long because we have people repeating weak arguments trying to defend him(friend defense, slippery slope crap) and the mods chimed in saying we had to fill out all of the paper work(post reports) if we wanted it done. The length has as little to do with justice as pchan's posts have any intelligent substance to them.
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Actually doing the "paper work" works a lot better and makes you seem a lot more serious about your cause than just making a thread and stamping your feet when the modmins don't agree with you.
 
Makelith said:
Missing the point of what was being said. Nothing about number of dots, but who are giving him the dots.
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No, he's saying that his dots are from people who agree with him, which is what everyone else's dots are from. Since other people have more dots, obviously more people agree with them.

Actually doing the "paper work" works a lot better and makes you seem a lot more serious about your cause than just making a thread and stamping your feet when the modmins don't agree with you.
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My point wasn't that doing the paperwork was bad, only that he was completely wrong about why the thread has gone on for so long.
 
Pompidou said:
If nobody cared about injustice, the thread wouldn't be nine pages. It's nine pages because you're wrong. I know I for one, try and stick up for the QCDN pariahs when I can. I thought it'd lead to my becoming one, myself. I was wrong. There's a silent crowd of people who apparently agree with me enough to supply all my dots. I certainly didn't get them from my FFXI knowledge... I'm not naming them, because if they wanted their oppinions public they'd be posting too, but some of the names are surprising, to say the least. So yeah, QCDN isn't as cold and calloused as you might think by only reading the posts of a very vocal few.
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I for one will put my name out there in support of you. I've said it time and time again, it's not hard in the last to either ignore someone, or just completely skip over their posts. I have never put anyone on ignore on QCDN but there are more than a few users whose posts I completely skip over when I see their username on the left. If people are so worried about someone giving a new user bad advice, then they should give the person seeking advice credit for being able to read two or more opposing views, weighing the evidence and arguments of each view, and making an informed decision based upon reason. If someone can be swayed by idiotic arguments and statements, then fuck em, I don't have any sympathy for them at all.
 
Calais said:
Why is this nine pages long? If people want Pchan banned for being an idiot and point out example after example of him being an idiot and disrupting threads, then ban him. Nobody cares about "injustice" on a video game board and people need to stop trying to play the snowball card and yelling about mob mentality. Maybe it seems like the most active users think Pchan is dumb because they've been around enough to see his dumbass posts. It's not some wild conspiracy against him.
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So in other words, if I make a thread about wanting to ban Skaw, and get 5 people to agree, he will be banned?

I have a great idea, let's start a monthly thread called "Who will we ban this month?" where we make a vote with 10 names, and the winner get banned.
 
Uzor said:
So in other words, if I make a thread about wanting to ban Skaw, and get 5 people to agree, he will be banned?

I have a great idea, let's start a monthly thread called "Who will we ban this month?" where we make a vote with 10 names, and the winner get banned.
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Moar friend defense phail...

The difference between "making" a thread to want skaw banned and pchan banned is that Skaw contributes thought out educated posts. Pchan posts retarded stupidity and horrid unrealistic "advice". If you even want to call it that, since its not. If you would even read instead of out right hitting that quote button you would see that he posts nothing except how uber pup is(n't) and a mnk needs to ALWAYS being a pulling item cause a mnk does pulling full time. Maybe if he tried learning game mechanics and decent non-salvage, since there is more to this game then salvage, advice he might not be hated as bad as he is.
 
That's not all he post. That's what you get annoyed at.

And all of Skaw's posts isn't useful. He spew some shit as well, we all do. The thing is, you want him banned simply because he annoys you. So if someone annoys me I should have the right to start a thread asking for that person to get banned.

And you can stop saying "friend defense phail" at the beginning of your posts. Its getting quite repetitive if your main counter-argument is "friend defense". I don't write "butt-buddy" at the beginning of my posts, even if that's what I assume.
 
Uzor said:
That's not all he post. That's what you get annoyed at.

And all of Skaw's posts isn't useful. He spew some shit as well, we all do. The thing is, you want him banned simply because he annoys you. So if someone annoys me I should have the right to start a thread asking for that person to get banned.

And you can stop saying "friend defense phail" at the beginning of your posts. Its getting quite repetitive if your main counter-argument is "friend defense". I don't write "butt-buddy" at the beginning of my posts, even if that's what I assume.
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Whether or not I agree with what you say doesn't matter. There's no use trying to defend him here, as anything you say will be labeled as friend defense.
Just thought I'd clear the fog if you haven't done so already.

















Don't smoke pot. Often.
 
Just to clarify what I meant in reference to my dots. I'd never think to consider myself more popular than the QCDN upper crust. My entire last post was a rebuttal to the idea that noone cares about injustice here. There are probably more people in Bajaratt's camp than in mine, I'm sure of it. Heck, he earned it with good posts. But I don't think my entire argument can be dismissed as nothing, or a slippery slope, and that was the reason I brought my dots into it. I recognize I'm middle of the road in that regard, but I was trying to argue that despite the appearance in this thread, I'm not the only one with my mindset. That was all.

When I said "because you're wrong", which caused quite a stir, it was in reference to the same point. If everyone held the same viewpoint as Baj and Skaw, this wouldn't be 10 pages. It's gone on for this long because the issue isn't as clear cut as some would like it to be.

As for the champion of the downtrodden comment, I don't think myself anything so glamorous. I'm not trying to be a hero on a message board. I just want to make sure that everyone is given the same process I'd want. If Pchan gets banned after X warnings, that's cool with me. I don't owe the guy any favors, after all. My entire position is that aside from very limited offenses, like a bot coming on and spamming porn, instabans aren't justified. The first and second warnings serve as official notices that you better shape up or you won't be here much longer. Give Pchan the two warnings, or whatever the deal is, and I won't mind. That's my entire argument.

I know I'm shooting myself in the foot here by taking a strong position, but what can you do? I hope noone's taking my arguments personally. In any sort of thread but these, I've got no issues with anyone. I just feel bad for whoever the unpopular person of the moment happens to be. It might be misplaced, I'm sure. Still, I'm really anal about following rules and procedures. I think consistancy and due process are important even on a message board. QCDN is a great place, but it has a strong desire to lean towards mob rule or vigilante justice, and I've never thought that was a good thing.

Unless someone posts in a way that I feel obligated to reply again, I hope this'll be my closing argument here. If people want Pchan banned, give him the three strikes everyone else gets. What do you have to lose? If he repents and turns over a new leaf, you get an asset to the community. If he maintains his troublesome ways, how much longer do you really have to suffer, and in return, QCDN doesn't bolster its reputation as vigilante mob rule. If Pchan gets discipline for what's done, just make sure to hold everyone to the same standard from now on. It wasn't applied to Hellstorm during his prime. I don't have any idea what is or isn't flamebaiting on QCDN. It's the greyest of grey areas and the most arbitrarily enforced guideline. If Pchan is considered flamebaiting from now on, that's cool with me. At least I'll know what not to do. But really, noone knows what flamebaiting is, so let any justice start from here on out, and not retroactively. Peregrine was, Hellstorm wasn't, Pchan - who knows? What QCDN really needs is a concrete standard for the offense.
 
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I just want to bring to light a couple of things here. I know it was mentioned before, but we do like to have a paper trail. Having an accountant as an admin sucks for the poor staff because I love a trail that I can look back and to justify any action we take. It's easier that way. That is why I can't just up and ban a member simply because people are saying he spams. We would need a few reported posts in different threads to show us that he/she is just spamming decent topics with nonsense. Personally, I don't think it is a huge thing to ask for. Click the button, put in a small reason (you can even use "spamming" as one) and off it goes to us!

As for reported posts being ignored...I apologize if that is being felt like that. I am currently looking into getting a script made so when we can just click on a PM button in regards to the report which will send it to the original reporter letting them know what is going on. Almost of the reported posts are deliberated and highly discussed with the exception of reported bots and the sort.

I would like to think that this would conclude any arguments that go on with banning someone and will hopefully clarify the way we do things behind the scenes with banning people. I think we can close this thread for the time being.

Thanks,

Mir
 
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