Bazaars in Rolanberry Fields, just a thought!

Firestreak

Firestreak

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Up against the wall so returning trains wouldn't hit them. It might be a great place to bazaar items for tax free trading.

Maybe we could even try sectioning out the mules. So food mules will be in one area and equipment in another, and somewhere else potions and ethers and somewhere else expensive stuff like emporer hairpin or an aketon.
 
I would but the JRS (Jueno Revenue Service) is auditing me for my prior
tax returns. I can't draw any more heat from them. They might get me for tax evasion.
 
By "tax-free trading" do you mean "avoiding the AH charges put in place to combat rampant inflation?"

Because if that's what you mean, I'm not intrigued by your ideas and I'm not interested in receiving your newsletter.
 
Well to sum up my views on the economy, I would say that Square made a poor decision in this update of the auction house system because all it really does is penalize people for using the auction house. I've already stated before I think the auction house was flawed before, due to how easily manipulative the queue system is in terms of selecting which seller is next, but yes in general prices are simply going to rise and fall based on supply and demand.

What was great about the update? Adding venemous claw as a BCNM prize. It shows an active response to a growing problem of supply and demand. As the servers become more densely populated demand goes up. The claw was dropped by Amakri, Serket and Genbu only, and Genbu will be mostly hunted as a means to get the gods Abjuration, and through the pain in popping Genbu and the unlikely drop(which will be spread among many people) no one realy hunts Genbu just to get the claw. Then you've got so many NA now on their 2nd or 3rd job, and all think they should have Scorpion Harness... or some on their first job. Much gil is sold, the price as a result skyrockets to such a point it would be very difficult for anyone to get it legitamately. Because 1 a day pops are not responsive to the demand by the playerbase. The price is determined by how much people are willing to pay, and I think for many who just want something and by any means, there is no max price. The harness is bought more commonly at the high price than it was at its original. So making a way to satisfy the high demand by producing the claws more frequently is really the only solution. Afterall I don't think really people who enjoy standing still staring at the screen intently timing pops and finding the fastest possible way to claim a monster should be in control of the economy. By the low percentage who is willing to do it, and is more willing to buy gil, we can surmise the majority of the player base doesn't find NM camping fun. And it's a game, even making money should have a fun aspect.
So I would suggest all NMs no longer operate by pop timers. They should all be force pops based off items you must actually hunt for. It should be difficult, by the difficultly should be reflective of the quality of the item, and people should be able to work for it as oppose to rapid claim.
Hence...
if you wanted a scorpion harness, let's say you have a level 75 job. You have some good friends who'd spend a day helping you. I'd say maybe 10 75s spending 5 hours should be able to get it. Then if the price wants to be set at 3 million, and they are going to sell it, that's 300k to each or 60k an hour. That's probably around enough of a motivating price that people would go out and get it. And it would stabilize the item at 3 mill. And it would also leave an option for people who want the item to actually go out and get it. What I don't like now is claim wars, NM stealing, MPKing and general bad attitude resulting in the competition for a limited supply. Many good people don't wish to become part of this because it becomes seedy and immoral. All that being said, poppable NMs would be a valid solution. With tax free trading,,, people will be more encouraged to focus on whatever aspect they enjoy most of making money and less required to spread their time around. Like people may have to start leveling cooking to 40 so they can synth their own crab or meat kabobs. If you hate cooking, why should you have to do that?
 
i've had an idea like this for a while. just head to one of the areas off of jeuno and there would be no tax. glad someone finally pointed :D
 
i was just joking around (obviously) but I thought the topic was about
Bazaars, not Auction Houses.
 
It's about avoiding fees, which can be taken in the form of bazaars. My explanation to why I don't have any problem with trying to work around the "attempt to stop inflation" is because it's not gonna do jack about inflation. More AH fees = higher prices once the market stabilizes. Just look at the difference between the price of a stack of food in Jeuno or Windurst pre-update. The 500 gil fee was directly passed onto the buyer. Increasing of potential items will stop inflation. Hence the huge drop in scorp harness.
 
Thats a good idea but then you would have all of the people who did not hunt NM before because they thought they would never get it crawl all over the mobs that drop the item. It would not solve the problem, make it worse even..maybe. Instead of a few hunting the NM, everyone will be hunting the regular mobs that drop the pop items.

The problem if you ask me IS the timers, people know respawn times. Now if you set all HNM and NM on a random timer, there would be no real camping of NM or HNM. The mob could pop,oh once this week, 30 times next week, none the following week and at completly random times. Sitting at the spawn is worthless since you could end up waiting days for it to pop. So chances are people might spend only a bit of time camping it daily, instead of "Oh, well (insert HNM) spawns in 30 min, lets prep up and go see if we can claim it today."

Would also keep players from "owning" H/NM. They would have 2 choices, pray it spawns on the time they camp the area, or b wait for it to spawn and hope they get to it first. That way everyone has a chance, not just NM hunters, or gil sellers. Of course, yeah prices would go up blah blah. Not if done right. See the problem, for lets say, scorp harness, is not enough claws for demand. Ok. Have Serket spawn randomly somehow. He can spawn 30 times in one day or not spawn at all for 2 weeks, of course not using those exact numbers but you get the point. So hey, at times there might be enough for everyone, price goes down, and when there isn't price goes up. Yup, there we go, just like real life economy. The randomness solves a lot of probles imo, and the fact that it's possible it can respawn more times in the same day, who knows maybe even 5 min after it dies, it's a change that more claws will inflow then the normal 1 a day IF it drops. Of course it doesn't screw econmy either by have like 200 claws on the AH, since at times the damn scorp won't even spawn that week.

Eh, they also need to fix claim issues, tired of claim crap. One group claims it BAM, done. Even if everyone unengages the NM or monster or whatever, it will stay claimed until every single person in said pt or alliance leaves the area or dies. Only people who would have a problem with that are the thieves, right? If a fucking group claims the HNM it's fucking theirs until they fail to kill it, be it 20 hours or 2 min. Most groups wait until for a second the mob goes unclaimed, or whatever reason. Some try to hate steal the mob out of range. With this people won't even bother, since they can drag that mob where ever the hell they want, even into zones they know will kill the claimer, but the smart claimer knowing the nice new claim change will simply wait since as long as he stays there it will still be his. Eventually the theif will die, get bored, or give up and leave, and through another nice little change in hate/claim, the monster will come back to the original claimer. As for lingae, linking mobs should only garner hate towards the current target of the leader mob. So a goblin NM that links other gobs would only go after the thief, and the linked mob would come back (not truly having hate, so it doesn't link, but it still goes back to original claimer, not hard at all to do) and then once that player attacks it or garners hate again then the mob can link so so.

Think about it.
 
It wouldn't be too hard to combat that... I'd just say the monsters who drop the pop items are very plentiful and extremely quick to repop. People not going out and hunting them should just be an affect of price going low enough that per person the gil/hour ratio of hunting isn't worth it. Of course some groups can make themselves more efficient, killing mobs faster and requiring less people, and they might drive the price down. But even then learning to kill monsters more efficiently sounds a hell of a lot less like work than learning to outclaim voke bots.
Before any hardcore NM campers jump down my throat to say "HEY FIRESTREAK I'VE NEVER SEEN YOU AT THE CAMP WHAT DO YOU KNOW?!?!?!" I will say I have tried NM camping many times on several different NMs and I've done it spread out of a period of months. I just never had the attention span to do it seriously and I like most people didn't enjoy it. The fighting part I love...The claiming aspect is avoidable.
 
a JP BST wanted to buy all 60+ of my ordelle's bronzepieces but said in translation something about {No thanks}{tax} and i said {rolanberry fields} and he just followed me, zoned, examined my bazaar and bought everything.

so that'd be a good idea... get rid of all the 1 million + bazaars in lower jeuno to take care of all the lag and put it outside of jeuno^^
 
Sanjo Renomitsu said:
Thats a good idea but then you would have all of the people who did not hunt NM before because they thought they would never get it crawl all over the mobs that drop the item. It would not solve the problem, make it worse even..maybe. Instead of a few hunting the NM, everyone will be hunting the regular mobs that drop the pop items.

The problem if you ask me IS the timers, people know respawn times. Now if you set all HNM and NM on a random timer, there would be no real camping of NM or HNM. The mob could pop,oh once this week, 30 times next week, none the following week and at completly random times. Sitting at the spawn is worthless since you could end up waiting days for it to pop. So chances are people might spend only a bit of time camping it daily, instead of "Oh, well (insert HNM) spawns in 30 min, lets prep up and go see if we can claim it today."

Would also keep players from "owning" H/NM. They would have 2 choices, pray it spawns on the time they camp the area, or b wait for it to spawn and hope they get to it first. That way everyone has a chance, not just NM hunters, or gil sellers. Of course, yeah prices would go up blah blah. Not if done right. See the problem, for lets say, scorp harness, is not enough claws for demand. Ok. Have Serket spawn randomly somehow. He can spawn 30 times in one day or not spawn at all for 2 weeks, of course not using those exact numbers but you get the point. So hey, at times there might be enough for everyone, price goes down, and when there isn't price goes up. Yup, there we go, just like real life economy. The randomness solves a lot of probles imo, and the fact that it's possible it can respawn more times in the same day, who knows maybe even 5 min after it dies, it's a change that more claws will inflow then the normal 1 a day IF it drops. Of course it doesn't screw econmy either by have like 200 claws on the AH, since at times the damn scorp won't even spawn that week.

Eh, they also need to fix claim issues, tired of claim crap. One group claims it BAM, done. Even if everyone unengages the NM or monster or whatever, it will stay claimed until every single person in said pt or alliance leaves the area or dies. Only people who would have a problem with that are the thieves, right? If a fucking group claims the HNM it's fucking theirs until they fail to kill it, be it 20 hours or 2 min. Most groups wait until for a second the mob goes unclaimed, or whatever reason. Some try to hate steal the mob out of range. With this people won't even bother, since they can drag that mob where ever the hell they want, even into zones they know will kill the claimer, but the smart claimer knowing the nice new claim change will simply wait since as long as he stays there it will still be his. Eventually the theif will die, get bored, or give up and leave, and through another nice little change in hate/claim, the monster will come back to the original claimer. As for lingae, linking mobs should only garner hate towards the current target of the leader mob. So a goblin NM that links other gobs would only go after the thief, and the linked mob would come back (not truly having hate, so it doesn't link, but it still goes back to original claimer, not hard at all to do) and then once that player attacks it or garners hate again then the mob can link so so.

Think about it.
Click to expand...

Sorry I quoted the whole thing for this but.....

This whole NM thing is getting out of hand, they are changing pop points, they already put 2 HUUUUGE items in KSBCNMs and now people want random timers?

What about the people that make a living off NMs? One of my good friends is royally fucked now because of this, and I fear the rest of the campers will be too. You know where it all stems from? Whiny people who did not pick the right job, or have the patience or the connection to NM hunt looking for their "Lucky Break" out. It amuses me seeing mages and shit camping NMs and then wondering why they never get the claim.

There are other ways to make gil people, IMO there is only a few jobs that should even hunt NMs. I felt stupid even hunting NMs with treasure hunter 1, and now I feel even worse after I took the time to level THF for th2 and now all this crap is happening because of the whiners.

This is completely ridiculous and its all thanks once again to whiners....... Just because you get beat to a claim, doesn't make that person a bot. Just because you don't have the patience to camp an NM for 24+ hours doesn't mean the ones who do should suffer. Get over it, there are plenty of outlets to make gil on this game. Stop trying to fucking nerf everything because you can't hang people.

I know guys who will sit in the Maze of Shakrami for literally weeks to get that claim, you HONESTLY dont think with that type of determination and patience they wouldnt be rich without NM camping? Its not the method of making gil, it's the attitude that drives the person to make it....remember that.
 
I think random pop/timers should be on NMs, where's the fun of hunting if you know when and where it'll spawn exactaly? tell me that... it's supposed to be rare and hard to find or else it'd just be a monster and not a notorious one.
 
I'm suprised these changes didn't happen long ago. If SE has shown anything, it's an interest in keeping gil very hard to get. They actively shutdown every big money maker they can.
 
Devi said:
I think random pop/timers should be on NMs, where's the fun of hunting if you know when and where it'll spawn exactaly? tell me that... it's supposed to be rare and hard to find or else it'd just be a monster and not a notorious one.
Click to expand...


If they did this there would be no "Camping" about it, it would just be run through the area and kill it if its there. NM hunting would be gone forevor, and I like knowing I have some security by knowing a rough estimate of the pop times. Its bad enough spamming widescan for 3 to 5 hours, let alone not knowing if it would even spawn that day.

This isn't meant to sound negative, but do you ever camp NM's Devi? The playing field should not be leveled for people who do not put their time in like the campers.....
 
I see your point Vang but look at it like this.

View some of the other methods of making money.

Let's take for example a small product like a Meat Mithkabob... I'm not gonna try with the prices now because they aren't stabilized so we'll be talking pre-update.

Hunting the meat. Well the most profitable place would be in Onzozo. Now I would hunt there with 73 PLD. My sub is THF and it's capped. Yes I realize I could make gil faster with THF main... then again, should everyone have to level thf high just to make money? Well I can make at most maybe a stack and a half per hour. That is with Vermillion Cloak and Dark Staff to reduce downtime, Full Adaman set and Balan's Sword /w not capped but high GSD skill.

So let's say 3 stacks in 2 hours. If I was to sell to AH directly, that'd be maybe 16k a stack or let's say 24k / hour.

So I have 73 cooking. 3 stacks of fire crystals might run me maybe 8k. 3 stacks of onions 15k. kazham peppers I forget, I'll just guess about 4k.
This will product at low end 36 stacks of meat mithkabobs. 3k each with 500 cost to AH. so 2500 net off each.
So that's 90k or so from 48k in meat (or 3 hours time) and 27k in additional ingrediants.
to make that profit you have to clog your auction house for around a week or so. That's how long it'll take to sell 36 stacks of meat.(pre update). Hence until then you can't sell anything else really and collecting more meat is pointless.
As for chiefkabobs, well you will almost always get a half stack. full stack sells for double about so you don't get any profit.

This is another way to make money. And I've done it many times. It doesn't get me big items, I get those from money made off NM. It gets me by with the stuff I need.

Now you can say, yes this guy is so patient and motivated he wants to be THE ONE to own this NM. So that means anyone not willing to give all the same dedication as him has a very poor chance of trying to enjoy some of the more high end products in the game.

Random timer... nah. Let them pop like always once a day, but also let them force pop pre claimed. not touching the regular timer.

Then if people want to be dedicated FOR THE ITEM, they can get it. If people want to use it to make profit, their profit might not be as great. The point being the mentality I see is, you're making a living off camping NM. But you don't actually need the item it drops. If someone didn't want to buy from you, they'd have to compete with you.. I'm saying let them get it if they aren't too freaking lazy, and if they don't have the mentality of a true NM hunter which I don't doubt you have.
 
Vang, I don't consider myself a NM hunter. Frankly, I hate NM. HNM are a bit better most of the time since they are not as bad, since you need a lot of people to kill them. Sure some times I camp a NM for fun, sometimes as you say "I get lucky". I'm glad you think yourself the lord of NM(no offense intended, I do have respect for players that can actually sit there for hours just to make gil, that imo is not how a game, meant to be fun, should be like so I have a hard time doing so). I have passed by on normal farming, despite how much I hate it. Yes, despite what everyone says you can make a lot of money from crafts, and correctly farming makes gil. Dedication is the only way to make any money, I know people (including myself) who calmy farm mobs for weeks, maybe even months to make some cash, and come out with several million. Now, not every one of us wants to "make our living" camping NM, staying at an area for hours on end just to end up with nothing. Now, I've never complained about this system, I tend to accept things for what they are and I'm hard to anger -most of the time-. But sad to say, NM are the biggest money makers so far, look at some of those damn items. I think for what they are worth, they should be more open to anyone, even casual hunters. Consider NM like the lottery, sometimes you just hit it big. Despite what you might think sitting there for hours and claim the mob is not work at all. I can find out when lizzy was killed, go watch a movie come back a few min before respawn, and then try my hand at getting the mob before someone else. What kind of skill is needed for that? None, despite what all the jabberish about WAYS to claim the monster first. Still based largely on luck, except for voke bots and the slight advantage Jpns have (if this is true, not sure myself). Dedication maybe... you would have to be to not be tempted at leaving after losing the mobs maybe 5 times in a row. All the talk about NM seem like battles "I only lost (inset NM name ) to so so only once. He's my NM I win him every time.) That's the damn problem, people like you camp NM often and make millions upon millions normally(I've heard you on several account talk/hint at your wealth, it had to come from somewhere) Not, I'm not whining, as you think, because I lose NM all the time. "Ah well" is my reply every time. Now I don't go hardcore NM hunter as yourself, I couldn't stand the time it would take neither do I have it. Normally that mean's I'm out of the "lottery" or only halfway in.

Pure and simple, we can build on this idea of lottery, by giving NM random spawns and random timers. Maybe increase drop rates because of this. So and so was lucky to kill whatever, and now he's 5 mil richer. This would only screw over NM hunters, as it is, but would broaden the NM horizon to EVERYONE. I'm a big fan of making NM all but impossible to camp so there will be no such thing as NM hunters. You might check one day, see Fafnir up, or decide to see if you get lucky and find lizzy up on a pass through South G. Of course the NM hunters would be pissed, they can't make major money anymore. Realistically anyone could end up getting the NM out of pure chance. That is how it should be imo. It would leave the economy alone too because of the random timer, lizzy for example might pop 10 min after death instead of the normal pop timer, no one could wait on her because no one would know when she would actually show up. Leaving someone ELSE to probably get here, not the same rich NM hunter. Now, I'm happy with what I got, I rarly camp NM or HNM, but the chances of my coming upon lizzy(sorry but that's like the first NM everyone tries for so I love using it as my example) don't exist, some camper will get it. This way, I might come across it. Who knows, maybe I'll spend an hour a day camping the Emp Hairpin and hope it pops on my watch. That's what I want.
 
Firestreak said:
I see your point Vang but look at it like this.

View some of the other methods of making money.

Let's take for example a small product like a Meat Mithkabob... I'm not gonna try with the prices now because they aren't stabilized so we'll be talking pre-update.

Hunting the meat. Well the most profitable place would be in Onzozo. Now I would hunt there with 73 PLD. My sub is THF and it's capped. Yes I realize I could make gil faster with THF main... then again, should everyone have to level thf high just to make money? Well I can make at most maybe a stack and a half per hour. That is with Vermillion Cloak and Dark Staff to reduce downtime, Full Adaman set and Balan's Sword /w not capped but high GSD skill.

So let's say 3 stacks in 2 hours. If I was to sell to AH directly, that'd be maybe 16k a stack or let's say 24k / hour.

So I have 73 cooking. 3 stacks of fire crystals might run me maybe 8k. 3 stacks of onions 15k. kazham peppers I forget, I'll just guess about 4k.
This will product at low end 36 stacks of meat mithkabobs. 3k each with 500 cost to AH. so 2500 net off each.
So that's 90k or so from 48k in meat (or 3 hours time) and 27k in additional ingrediants.
to make that profit you have to clog your auction house for around a week or so. That's how long it'll take to sell 36 stacks of meat.(pre update). Hence until then you can't sell anything else really and collecting more meat is pointless.
As for chiefkabobs, well you will almost always get a half stack. full stack sells for double about so you don't get any profit.

This is another way to make money. And I've done it many times. It doesn't get me big items, I get those from money made off NM. It gets me by with the stuff I need.

Now you can say, yes this guy is so patient and motivated he wants to be THE ONE to own this NM. So that means anyone not willing to give all the same dedication as him has a very poor chance of trying to enjoy some of the more high end products in the game.

Random timer... nah. Let them pop like always once a day, but also let them force pop pre claimed. not touching the regular timer.

Then if people want to be dedicated FOR THE ITEM, they can get it. If people want to use it to make profit, their profit might not be as great. The point being the mentality I see is, you're making a living off camping NM. But you don't actually need the item it drops. If someone didn't want to buy from you, they'd have to compete with you.. I'm saying let them get it if they aren't too freaking lazy, and if they don't have the mentality of a true NM hunter which I don't doubt you have.
Click to expand...

Hmm ok, well the last sentance in your post I dont know if I understand. Was that supposed to be offensive? I think you mean a "True" Nm hunter hunts for the item they want to USE and not sell for profit? If so, I will just forget I read that and hope you were just kidding...

The thing about it is, the people who say "Lets put them on a random timer" probably DON'T camp NMs....and have no other way to make profit other than to try and hit it big on drop. I have no remorse for these people. I guaran god damn tee I would be loaded if NM camping didn't exist either....I just want to have the best in game and will stop at nothing IN GAME to get it. That's me, I have no compassion for the lazy people who whine "Nerf" all day long, and on the same note don't want to put the time in.

Hopefully Tiya sees this because she posted a great link from the KI forums about this very subject a loong time ago. I think it was something along the lines of a THF wanting a Hairpin and Boots and not being able to "Get" them. Boo fucking Hoo....what a crock. Almost anyone can make 100 to 500k a day, they just choose not to.

Btw, I dont know much about cooking but is it really even a craft? I remember I saw a post about taking cooking to 60 or so with 200k....what a joke. How can a craft that is so easy to level be considered a money maker by your terms? I am sorry but cooking sounds to me like more of a personal use craft then profitable one so I cant feel for you there when it comes to not making gil. If I am wrong on this, then disregard.
 
Cooking takes time / and / or money.
If you want to level it for 200k anywhere high you're spending ungodly hours selling every item you make to try and minimize your losses. If we can agree time is money, and as you say 500 is makable by anyone in a day, then the fact that leveling cooking to 73 takes about 600k to do in maybe 12 days time means I'm spending 600k and 6 million in time I could have spent doing other profitable things.

And no I didn't call you a True NM hunter as a sarcastuc insult. I gave you a *gasp* compliment. Sheesh.
 
vang said:
Hopefully Tiya sees this because she posted a great link from the KI forums about this very subject a loong time ago.
Click to expand...

Most of it is about the benefits of said gear, not the actual farming to get it, but there are a few posts that apply to this: http://ffxi.killvoid.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=303863#303863


Now... I am an NM camper. I refuse to wear anything but the best gear, and because said gear doesn't drop from NM's (for the most part) for a BLM, I camp for other items to sell, so that I can buy that gear. You guys want to make it so people that need that gear and aren't dedicated NM campers have an advantage.

In that case, I want them to make it so that I can craft iqgara/genie gear without becoming a dedicated bonesmith. They should also nerf it so people that are dedicated to bonesmithing and want to craft stuff to sell, shouldn't be able to do so as easily.

Sound good to you?
 
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