Bazaars in Rolanberry Fields, just a thought!

I'll say simply THF/BST is the only one who has a capable claiming tool, treasure hunter and widescan. I'm not saying you're less experienced but I am saying you don't take a good idea of how to cope wth pop area being spread and the need for widescan with much careful consideration. You might know claiming to a science but I know a thing or two about FF...

Vang I'll also point out if you want to be accurate about time working you must count the pop window not the entire 24 hour cycle.
 
Firestreak said:
I'll say simply THF/BST is the only one who has a capable claiming tool, treasure hunter and widescan. I'm not saying you're less experienced but I am saying you don't take a good idea of how to cope wth pop area being spread and the need for widescan with much careful consideration. You might know claiming to a science but I know a thing or two about FF...

Vang I'll also point out if you want to be accurate about time working you must count the pop window not the entire 24 hour cycle.

I retract my statement then, I thought you meant for claim spamming NMs....It is very true thf/bst is by far the best combo for CERTAIN widescan pop NMs. We wont mention any names ^^::
 
Direwolf said:
What they should do, and they have done is make more items Rare Exclusive (And questable), it puts things like Moldavite earings in the "There is a relatively good chance I will get this item Category" instead of "I want it but I recognize the fact that there is not a chance in hell I can afford it unless I devote my existence to getting said item"

Bleah. I don't want to only have gear that I need to organize friggin alliances for or complete ridiculous pain in the ass quests for. Note that I said only--that is, I want to have the choice. I don't want them to just move gear that's sought after or expensive to rare/ex. It's worth it to me to pay a few hundred thousand gil to the guy who sits there till his butt goes numb camping VE, or whatever. I'd rather spork my eyes out than camp NMs with any frequency--so I make money other ways. Anyone can do it. My highest job is 46 WAR, ffs. So yeah, it takes time, but that's the way this game is. When I get sick of it, I'll quit too.
 
Bleah. I don't want to only have gear that I need to organize friggin alliances for or complete ridiculous pain in the ass quests for.[/quote]

You're going to miss out on a lot of higher level gear.. god equipment, abjurations, Joyeuse, etc. :) End game, that's all there is to do.
 
I feel like I started all this. I'm really sorry.

In all honesty, it makes no difference to me whether a scorp harness is 3 mil or 8 mil. I'm never going to have one, regardless. Unless I win the lottery, quit my job and devote way more time to playing (which is never going to happen).
 
Lol vang.

Yeah... I understand, I doubt anything will change that's that radical too soon or fast, but I still think it would work. Yeah, you can't get the exact spawn time, but close to it, and I dunno about 5 min lizzy spawn. Lets take aqurious<sp?> for example, a prime target for me being smn since I can solo it. He has a 2 hour spawn time, after I see him die, I do something else. Don't know go play Phantom Brave whatever, come back in 2 hours, and then wait since there is normaly a part killing crabs for me. I don't have to watch the spawns for those 2 hours because I know he will not spawn before then, otherwise my random timer dream would be true ^^

So even though you are right in a way, knowing when a NM/HNM died still gives you a huge help in knowing when to camp. I know Serket will not spawn 20 min after he dies so there is no point is staying to wait. And the few times I camped the popular NM, in the past, I noticed that the NM hunters back then that I always see there know the same damn thing. They might stay there all right, but I bet they are afk or whatever, some even leave to do another NM while this one's timer counts down again. There is no way to get around this, and of course that is common sense. Every player whose played for a decent time knows at least that fact about NM. I guess, simply put, what I am trying to say that I want is...

Instead of a particular group, the nm hunters I guess, getting the NM and all the cash inflow from that, everyone gets it, even a random joe. The money is spread to a broader group, the prices stay the same, it's not a question of more or less of the item for more or less people, but the item to different people. People will get the hint eventually, if someone is crazy enough to camp lizzy 24/7 for a week just to make 200k, then they well deserve it. That's actually dedication, not knowing when it will spawn and actively waiting all the time not just near spawn time.

Hmm, I guess then Svina, that might be the the case with HNM. Like I said I no where claim to be a NM hunter, I rather bite the bullet and make money using slower, but surer methods and use NM/HNM like one would do the lottery in real life. Despite all the respect I have for NM hunters, which can soloed mostly unlike HNM, I really don't see any situation in which would account to skill in any way at all. Dedication maybe.. maybe a lust for riches, or hell even greed instead keeps them hunting. Not saying NM hunters are bad people, we all want to make gil, and of course as human nature we want to make it as easily and fast as possible.


(yeah about the posts, I used to rp a lot and it's kind of a habit heh)
 
I'm probably not wanted, but Im going to give my 2 cents anyway.

First off, if you eliminate the NM campers, there is always the distinct possibilty that items will actually raise in price due to a lack of availability. I think the FOCUS of this discussion needs to be changed. We need a way not to eliminate NM hunters, but to eliminate the monopolies some people/groups have over certain mobs.

Secondly, Tiya, I respect you as a fellow Blm, but why in god's name did you buy that overpriced POS vermillion's cloak? Leave it to smn's and whm's. I too gave it serious thought, but we just sacrifice waaaay too much int for the luxury of refresh! I see you went flora cote. Good choice! I too went there, I like the added mp over the justaucorps +1 I was wearing, that and the cote just looks better than that green POS. :lol:

Thirdly, there are several scams that someone can use when crafting to make gil. I myself have anywhere from 5-6 going at once. Like Tiya, I wont give any away (everytime I do, that method quickly becomes useless because everyone starts doing it). I will share an example though because it was nerfed by SE. I used to farm a bunch of lightning crytals (easy to do in Qufim) then go to the music store in Bastok. Maple harps sold for 43g. Id buy a bunch and desynth. This was one screwed up desynth too. A normal desynth yielded 2 coeurl whiskers, an HQ yielded ONE whisker and an HQ2 yielded a POS piece of maple lumber. Anyway, I'd sit there and desynth then take the whiskers back to San where I could NPC them for 512g. This is where it's nerfed because now they are only 230 or something. Anyway, it may not sound like much, but when you make an instant 1k per synth, it adds up quick.
 
Hmmm just something to point out.

"I know guys who will sit in the Maze of Shakrami for literally weeks to get that claim, you HONESTLY dont think with that type of determination and patience they wouldnt be rich without NM camping? Its not the method of making gil, it's the attitude that drives the person to make it....remember that."

Vang said.

Being that I've tried a wide variety of gil making, with the exception of thf only things like pcking, and I don't know what kind of profit returns on other craft (though I hear it's all loss until level 100 just about) I'd like to pose the question of where you can get so filthy rich as NM with only a few hours a day to spend making gil? Maybe there are plenty of 'secret gil making niches' but let's be honest, that's why they're called Niches, only a few people can make good money on them before they're found out and it's time to move on. There's no reliable money making tool for the masses.
Boo hoo, whatever right? But you admit you'd be worried if they nerfed your NMs. Because really there's no other way for a lvl 50-something ranger to afford Eurotos Bow unless they've got a higher up job.

If you want to talk about >facts< I'll point this out.

Items being synthed that are costly are so because not greedy crafters, but because of the cost of the items to make that item. Many of the most expensive synths require NM drops as their most expensive by far ingrediant. Others require Mining, Farming, Gardening or the use of another tradeskill. All items are generated from either those means, or quests, or a few items like astral rings from other means, but only astrals are really profitable there.

So Tiya if you really want the best of the best stuff, and you're willing to work for it, even if NMs were nerfed to the point any joe could get one, not just the experienced hunters, making money would still exist but the profitability would spread. Because there are unlimited amounts of farming, fishing, ext people can do, but certainly less NM than people who wish to make a profit there. That shows it's easy money for the time spent IF you can get the claim.

You'd have to react to a changing environment that would stimulate more people to try to make money? boo hoo?


Btw > To other BLM I would say...
if 1.2 mill is worth 1 more int, why not have a mule on a second account ready at all times to fill your extra slots up with Yagudo Drinks or Ethers(not regular ethers of course) dependant on if your PT has refresh? Then simply chug items constantly to increase xp/hour? I'd certainly say another int at least to me as TT has more dimishing returns in terms of gil/xp if you want to get into the nitty gritty.
Yes I agree with Alanon's assessment that Vermillion Cloak is not good for BLM. But I would say that what will be best in the end is BLM AF. Most Enmity you can get until Errant and it's god damn free if you want to go out and get it.

Edit #2 Yes I know there's a markup fior synths, but that's the cover the time and money spent levleing up the synthing skill. As well the time spent collecting materials and synthing and making the product available to the market

You can say NM hunters also spend time. But time spent NM hunting does NOT = increased production. You're spending time trying to get the claim so you are the one who is selling. That item is going to be sold regardless of if you get it or someone else does. The more synthers the more competition the less profit margin, and for those who are under 100 skill often the lack thereof profit. More NM campers can only RAISE price as it makes the idea of getting the item yourself less practical and it frusterates other NM campers to in general want more gil for their time as it's a less likely claim. People pay whatever they're willing to pay for the item.

The addition of the Claw to the BC is a good example of my philosophy in action. The price was 8 million because it was in such high demand but no one could do anything about it. People would go to any means to get it including breaking the ToS. Those who wanted it legally were screwed over royally. Now the economy has been stabilized by an outlet for supply and demand to even and those who obviously cheated to get it are screwed over. It's instant economic karma.
 
Really I think the only thing I need to touch on is your post Firestreak, I still don't think you get what I am saying.

No matter what they took away in the case of NM hunting (as if they have not did enough to please the "masses" :roll: ) the hardcore are always going to be on top. From all the great campers I have met that were filthy rich, you could strip NM camping away from them, and soon enough there would be posts about nerfing whatever they moved on to next. Its the TYPE of person that goes up against "adversity" I guess to make the gil and stops at nothing, sans botting to make the gil.

Take away the NM camping and I promise the same people that dominate NM camping (of course take away the botters) would be strongarming the economy and making more gil on a consistent basis than the masses. I dont believe I have ever met a true NM hunter who didn't have an attitude of "I wont level until I have x gear". Thats just it, they do not settle like the race to 75 whores who just "get by".

Its a sick obsession I guess, but if your going to play, you minds well play to the fullest and not be concerned with how many jobs you can get to 75 before the next guy...Sadly, not everyone feels this way, and I am left with little choice anymore but to party with them and pick up their slack.
 
I swap Flora Cotehardie + Wizard's Pestasos/Republic Circlet in pre-nuke, and then Vermillion Cloak in post-nuke. (The swaps are incorporated into my nuke macro's) So I don't lose any int, but I still get the refresh from it the majority of the time. ;)

Between gloves and petasos I have -5 enmity... there's no way you can make me see the merit of throwing away 3 int and 30mp for another -3 enmity (Btw, I sold my Amity cape when I got Petasos, and went back to red cape +1). I like that you pointed out one of the pros to the wizard's cloak is that it's free. Tells me something further about what mind set you're in.

The first NA to 75 on our server was a BLM. At first I asked him for advice, and hounded him with questions. Then when I realised at level 37 I had better gear than him when he first hit 75, I decided from then on I'd never get into the level 75 asap routine - you're not helping your parties any.

Yes, I'd still make good money if I didn't have NM's. No, profits wouldn't be more widespread, because the profits are there now people just don't take the time to find them. I could drop NM camping forever right now, and still make great profits, yet if I get your drift, you're saying SE would need to add more moneymakers besides NM camping for people to make profits.
 
alanon, I thought of that already, prices would not rise on items. Because the spawn times are random, you could actually get more drops in a day then could normally. Some monsters have once a day spawns or 2 hours spawns, so prices will go up and down and supply and demand go up and down.

Mrx is walking through dunes to his pt in gusgen, and whoa he sees the Valkrum Emp. Kills it and gets drop, lucky he. He goes on to his pt. Now normally that NM is done for a while but let's say the random timer dishes out Valkrum Emp. 5 min after it was killed. Someone ELSE happens to see it blithely floating along it's merry way and kills he, lady luck is being a slut today and it drops again. Who knows? The random timer and luck might have it so you ended up getting 20 drops in the time it normally took to get 1, if even. Prices go down. By the same token, he might not respawn after mrx kills it for 2 weeks. "Man, been no sightings of Valkrum Emp. for the past 2 weeks, prices going to go up."

I just don't see how NM camping can be hardcore, whenever you go hunt you do your best assuming that the NM will pop anything, but the "hardcores" will have been there most of the day, and will know when it respawns. NM hunting remains above all else mostly luck, even if it's the luck that the other people camping the same NM have no idea what they are doing lol. Someone explain to me how skill comes into play, how NM is anything but mostly luck and the use of a bit of calculation and time. If NM camping doesn't exist anymore, the prices will remain mostly unchanged, the worth of such NM will not drop, the wealth that they even now give to players will remain mostly unchanged, expecet that it will not go to the same person every time.

About NM hunters moving on to something else... good.

"Take away the NM camping and I promise the same people that dominate NM camping (of course take away the botters) would be strongarming the economy and making more gil on a consistent basis than the masses."

How? You can make money off just about any mob, and the small increase of people that the few NM hunters that there are will add to normal monster farming, so forth, will not be noticed.

I guess the NM hunters will go hunt all the BCNM, and hold a monoply on BCNM items. Wait... no, because you can't.

I guess they will go own De.'s Tower and farm to hell crystals and gil off giants... well some people might be pissed but they will move on to one of the other plenty forms of farming, and the economy will stop them regardless. Too many of something on AH, prices go down. That's why NM are such tasty targets, only one way to get item in most cases, and in a way that most people just can't get it in a casual way.

Maybe they will try crafting.. of course anyone can craft and many do already.

If they are dedicated as you say all the better, they can stay in a zone for weeks farming until they get enough for what they want.

'I have ever met a true NM hunter who didn't have an attitude of "I wont level until I have x gear"'

The will have no problem whatsoever with this right? I mean, they have such dedication, and really don't care about rushing to level. I respect that, but I also think it works backwards. Not everyone wants to go into a farming rush, to become richest and the elitest whatever out there, they are content leveling with what they have just as true Nm hunters you proclaim are content to forgo leveling, possibly being weak level wise, for better equipment.

Ah, the 2 forms of power in this game, wealth and levels. Now dedicated players will not be upset about NM hunting being done with, dedicated as they are they will be seen everday somewhere farming until they get the item they want. I can see why they would prefer NM hunting, it's a fast way to make money.

I say be done with all that, make NM's FFXI's lottery. It already is in a way.
 
TiyaKelth said:
I swap Flora Cotehardie + Wizard's Pestasos/Republic Circlet in pre-nuke, and then Vermillion Cloak in post-nuke. (The swaps are incorporated into my nuke macro's) So I don't lose any int, but I still get the refresh from it the majority of the time. ;)

Between gloves and petasos I have -5 enmity... there's no way you can make me see the merit of throwing away 3 int and 30mp for another -3 enmity (Btw, I sold my Amity cape when I got Petasos, and went back to red cape +1). I like that you pointed out one of the pros to the wizard's cloak is that it's free. Tells me something further about what mind set you're in.

MY GOD!! It's a good thing Blm stands in the back! When you start nuking, does the mob go into seizures from all the blinking?? :lol:

The AF coat is not exactly free. I wasn't lucky like vang, so in the time it took me to get the key/coffer, I could of made 500-1000k gil. There is one thing it's good for though. I have it macroed into my sleep macro. That's about it.
 
alanon said:
MY GOD!! It's a good thing Blm stands in the back! When you start nuking, does the mob go into seizures from all the blinking?? :lol:

Well that's half the strategy right there. ;)
 
Euphacent said:
Bleah. I don't want to only have gear that I need to organize friggin alliances for or complete ridiculous pain in the ass quests for.

You're going to miss out on a lot of higher level gear.. god equipment, abjurations, Joyeuse, etc. :) End game, that's all there is to do.

I was talking about moving existing mid- and low-level gear to rare/ex. If you've stuck around to reach higher levels, you've presumably made friends and met people along the way who either also need these for themselves or who are willing to help you get them just to help. And like you said, there's not a bajillion other things left to do. I don't want to have to camp something for weeks on end just get a pair of, say, rare/ex boots that I'm only going to use for a few levels at 20.

Edited to add: I am actually pretty ambivalent about how much gil it takes to get stuff etc...but I have a headache and haven't been awake long enough to get into it.
 
Vermillion cloak is 1MP>3 seconds. I'm trying to gauge here exactly what kind of gain you're expecting for taking it a tic here and a tic there. If you converted it to its gil value and decided to buy the best ethers with it you'd probabably cover their costs for quite some time and consistantly get more mp/gainage than 1 second every 3 seconds used what.. a half of the time? Then factor in wasted MP of time spent resting extra after hitting max mp after a slow pull. When you start breaking it down it's not so great. I'm sorry if you think regular Morian Earrings and elemental staves were just "Getting buy" but not all of us exactly want to play final money fantasy 11 for theoretical xp/hour gain. The best of the best stuff is just that, and beyond a point I'd say to myself "shit I have more fun at work making real money."

As for the question of if people like you would be on top money wise without NMs... well I'd say this. What Alanon said about the NM monopoly is accurate. The fact that you get the NM means no one else can. No other form of gil making is like this. And no other form of gil making is as profitable. This was never intended, this much is obvious by Squares nerfing of certain NM camps recent.
All other forms of making gil are based on production. NM production is based off of the game's mechanic. Camping is hoarding the resource. You seem to think you "own" this resource because you have for so long been part of a very small segment that monopolizes it. But what you don't realize is you don't own it. And yes we all have the ability, but few have the connection, react speed and patience to compete with the few who have been at it so long. Competiting against hardcore NM campers is no fun. Even when you win, you have to look back on your day and say "well I got this item but damn I didn't have fun at all."


Why can't there be a >good< method of making money that's fun to do. If I could simply go through a series of repeatable quests, involving fighting monsters to pop NM to create the same expensive item because I don't want to have to endlessly fight for the claim against people or bots, then people would no doubt spend more time making gil. Right now the only form of gil making I find particulary fun is BCs, of which I am limited by seals. To get seals I must level. So by that definition I can't have the best of the best, as leveling for the seals will make me outdated. God hunting is also fun. Or it was fun, or maybe it could be fun again with the right LS. But then it involves so and so many hours a week if you're going to give it your all. Not a trivial amount of hours, perhaps 20.
 
Firestreak said:
To get seals I must level. So by that definition I can't have the best of the best, as leveling for the seals will make me outdated.

Here's a simple idea for seals. Get a job up to a certain level at which you can kill EPs rapidly. Then, all you have to do is die every so often and keep farming those EPs for drops, crystals and seals. THF15 is über cool for that, if it isn't a job you're currently leveling. You stick to that L15-16 sweetspot, so your gear never goes out of date, and you die whenever you need to stay in that sweetspot.
 
What about Kindred Seals. =p
Level whm to 57, lot all kindred seals, die back to 56, wash rinse repeat lol? Not to mention dying on purpose = beastmen taking over a region more. I don't know the whole thing just doesn't feel right.
 
I'm not going to argue with you when you try to tell me I'm doing something wrong for going to infinite measures to be the best I can be. Like it or not, the Vermillion Cloak helps. It doesn't do wonders, but just the same, it helps.

HQ staffs cause your nukes to do 5% more damage than regular staffs. Definately worth it no matter how you look at it. Morion Earrings are alright. But out of curiosity, did you take the time to get a moldavite earring as soon as you could?

Imagine NM's don't exist for a moment. I would be making good money still, because of my dedication to being the best I can be. I would still have the best of the best gear - I don't need to have a monopoly over an item.


You say BCNM's are a fun way to make gil. Flaru gives you an idea for beastmen seal's. You change your mind to only KSBCNM's being a fun way to make gil. If you're worried about dying and losing regions to beastmen... Let something beat you to low hp out of town, then go into town and use a poison potion. Two things your last post told me about you:
A) You're just making excuses.
B) You need to be a LOT more creative than you are if you want to find fun moneymakers.
 
TiyaKelth said:
HQ staffs cause your nukes to do 5% more damage than regular staffs. Definately worth it no matter how you look at it. Morion Earrings are alright. But out of curiosity, did you take the time to get a moldavite earring as soon as you could?

Ill give ya a head's up. Last night I was XP'n in boyhada tree on steelshells, and I was having trouble getting some serious resists. This was the first time in a VERRRRRY LOOOOONG time. At first I blamed my moldavite (first time xp'n since I got it) but I had already given away my old morion to a friend. I think it had to do more though with these mobs being a very high level (evident by the fact that we were getting 220-230xp on the first mob of a chain). I then stated nuking full time with the aquilos and started getting resisted far less. I think the problem was that they were too tough for me (not necessarily the party as we still hit chain4 on most). Just something to keep in mind. Have you gotten the shamon's cloak yet? I used to overlook this, but after last night Im starting to see how it may be handy to have around. If you want to camp this together sometime, give me a holler.

I like this thread. Both sides may disagree, but at least its an intelligent discussion and hasnt degraded to the usual "you're an ass, neewbb!!111!!"
:P
 
Firestreak said:
Vermillion cloak is 1MP>3 seconds. I'm trying to gauge here exactly what kind of gain you're expecting for taking it a tic here and a tic there. If you converted it to its gil value and decided to buy the best ethers with it you'd probabably cover their costs for quite some time and consistantly get more mp/gainage than 1 second every 3 seconds used what.. a half of the time? Then factor in wasted MP of time spent resting extra after hitting max mp after a slow pull. When you start breaking it down it's not so great. I'm sorry if you think regular Morian Earrings and elemental staves were just "Getting buy" but not all of us exactly want to play final money fantasy 11 for theoretical xp/hour gain. The best of the best stuff is just that, and beyond a point I'd say to myself "shit I have more fun at work making real money."

As for the question of if people like you would be on top money wise without NMs... well I'd say this. What Alanon said about the NM monopoly is accurate. The fact that you get the NM means no one else can. No other form of gil making is like this. And no other form of gil making is as profitable. This was never intended, this much is obvious by Squares nerfing of certain NM camps recent.
All other forms of making gil are based on production. NM production is based off of the game's mechanic. Camping is hoarding the resource. You seem to think you "own" this resource because you have for so long been part of a very small segment that monopolizes it. But what you don't realize is you don't own it. And yes we all have the ability, but few have the connection, react speed and patience to compete with the few who have been at it so long. Competiting against hardcore NM campers is no fun. Even when you win, you have to look back on your day and say "well I got this item but damn I didn't have fun at all."


Why can't there be a >good< method of making money that's fun to do. If I could simply go through a series of repeatable quests, involving fighting monsters to pop NM to create the same expensive item because I don't want to have to endlessly fight for the claim against people or bots, then people would no doubt spend more time making gil. Right now the only form of gil making I find particulary fun is BCs, of which I am limited by seals. To get seals I must level. So by that definition I can't have the best of the best, as leveling for the seals will make me outdated. God hunting is also fun. Or it was fun, or maybe it could be fun again with the right LS. But then it involves so and so many hours a week if you're going to give it your all. Not a trivial amount of hours, perhaps 20.


Even when you win, you have to look back on your day and say "well I got this item but damn I didn't have fun at all."

That is YOUR opinion.....this is the thing, it is all your personal opinion. You don't think the discouraged level 38 hunting VE for the first time looking at Rangers and Thiefs in full AF is happy when he gets the claim and the drop? Bragging about pwning high levels or some shit like that?

It all boils down to this man, and I am left with no other choice but to say it.....Stop looking for hand outs, stop trying to nerf others good fortune because you don't enjoy it. You know what needs to be done to make gil or at least after 2 level 70+ jobs I would HOOOOPE you know by now. You either do it, or you don't, it's your choice....this isn't a custom game that SE needs to mold around you so it suits your needs.

One of the best things on this game is when I see the letters "eror" on my widescan list in the Dunes....that how I have fun, stop trying to fuck with that because you don't.
 
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