Besieged Sucked ass!!

[Nifal]

I'm just frustrated, it was the only thing I was really looking foreward too in this new expansion and it was just a huge let-down. Like holy shit Square, introduce it with a bang, wouldn't it of been cool if it took so long to fight off the trolls that the Lamia ended up showing up while we were still fighting? Adding a whole new wave of bad guys to an allready incredible problem? Like I said, make it end game worthy - yesterday was just pathedic. You have a chance to do something with more than an 18 person alliance, make it friggin hard and fun! I think it'd be cool to lose the city to the beastmen for a few days while we all got our asses in gear and figured out a way to take it back. There shouldn't be threads on how lame it was, there should be threads of us trying to put a strategy together, losing and re-working it until we take it back.

How can Square screw the pooch so friggin hard on this one?

Give it time, I havent been to ToAU, But I can tell just by looking at the besiege map this is a progressive thing. In that each defeat they will get stronger, and they will bring more. In a month (hopefully ill be there by that point), shit will probably hit the fan.

As for the person that says Dynamis is "Easy and Boring", I agree with the boring, yeah it can be. As for easy ARE YOU OUT YOUR ****ing MIND!
What is easy about attending Dynamis 7 months straight and still have several members without certain gear. I think the word your looking for is "Dedication", something you and a lot of people lack apparently. Dynamis like most other MMORPG's, and most if not all events in FFXI it requires patience and dedication. Your in the wrong genre, if you think SE is just going to hand you everything.

 

[Tristam Green]

I couldn't read the whole flame because it was retarded, but I think it's funny that Peregrine thinks that tightening the defenses of a city is an impractical and cowardly tactic to stop an advancing army. Apparently he hasn't taken any history classes, or possibly gone to school since 3rd grade. Your entire argument fails because you are saying it's better to stop them outside. Who are you to make tactical decisions that effect the course of nations that oh-oh-oh you aren't even a citizen of? You want to role-play this out to what makes the most sense? Then follow the fucking orders of your superiors, which aside from the NPCs is all of the people on this thread.

Peace, Quetz. I won't be back to this thread.

{rant}

I stopped reading the whole thread here. I didn't experience the Besieged event, but from what I can read from the SE site and from Skaw/Peregine's shitslinging, I'd agree with what Kiru here is saying, and also with what Skaw is saying.

It is *never* and has never been a good idea, to send people out into a field, when there is an army on the march toward your town. That's the opposite definition of the word "besieged" even. To be "besieged" means that you are "under siege" insofar that you are there, within the city walls, PROTECTING it from within as long as you can.

You don't send the fighters out until the enemy forces are depleted. Granted that yes, defeating the invaders at their source is a *very* American viewpoint >.> (I'm American and saying this, so don't get self-righteous on me), it's defeating the purpose of the battle.

It's not a battle for points, Peregrine, so shut the hell up. It's primarily a way to experience the game in an ENTIRELY different way, and to be honest, I can't wait to get over there to experience it the way it's meant to be...

For posterity's sake, let's assume the people of Al-Zahbi built their cities with walls for a reason, shall we?

Also: when in history have you EVER heard a leader say "oh, let's send our people outside the castle walls and take the fight to the invading armies!" Nono, you get the Mithra and the Tarutaru inside them damn walls and protect the city the way it's meant to be. >.>

Peregrine, you have no idea wtf you're on about.

Skaw, good show.

{/rant}

 

[Rorschach]

the power is linked to the archaic mirrors in the zones, and to how many they've lost before. This lets them set the power before they leave the zone so that they can be intercepted outside the city.

Just wondering are the mirrors in the mobs towns? And if we were to say do our own lil "besiged" on their towns to destroy their mirror, would they grow in numbers since we busted their shit up?

 

[Cloudxz]

I experienced besieged last night and I couldn't target a thing. If I did it was already dead before I even engaged lol. Damn lag. -.- Seeing mobs in a city was actually pretty cool though. Something different, something new, something exciting. I really don't care if the mobs are being killed outside or not. People are still learning what they should and should not do. I just wanna have fun and enjoy the game.

 

[Alerith]

I have to agree with both sides about certain things.

You have to stop an attack before it reaches the city. But as you do so, the masses of mobs will probably get stronger, slowly pushing the players back towards the city. Eventually, the mobs will get so strong to the point where you have no choice but to fight them in the streets.

You shouldnt be yelling for people to "let" the mobs enter the city, but should be helping them kill them so that the next stronger wave comes. Eventually, you will have no choice but to fight them in the ciy.

Just like that picture that says "Intercept them in the woods" or whatever, that means you should intercept them OUTSIDE the city.

BUT, eventually the hoards will become to strong to intercept them there, and eventually, player characters will get pushed back.

 

[Alerith]

Damn lack of an edit button. I dont really like double posting but oh well:

Besieged, at one point or another, should end up looking like the opening movie to FFXI. The mobs breach the gate, and the fighters engadge, while the mages are casting from above and the archers are blasting away.

Once the Besieged event looks like the opening movie, then we can declare it a success.

 

[Alerith]

And for those of you who dont recognize it, that town in the opening movie was Tavanzania (sp?)

 

[Zylia]

Realistically and logically, if you had a group of people that could hit them on their march first and decimate them swiftly, preventing the possibility of "civilian casualties" or kidnappings I suppose, you'd do it. It's the basic argument of war thats prevalent these days that the least civilian casualties and damages done are 100% of the time the best way to go about things. Why let them come to the city where innocent civilians are when you can stop them before they even pose a threat? It's a pre-emptive attack. Compare it to the war today. We aren't letting the enemy breach our gates before we wake up and say 'Oh hey, look, an attack!' ESPECIALLY if we have the intelligence (the system message warning their approach) needed to justify early action. In terms of being realistic and playing your character's actual role, it makes sense.

It's a game though. I want them to attack, I want it to be all out war, and I want to die over and over again relentlessly (due to no xp loss!) and fight along side hundreds of people in an all out battle. (Which if it doesn't improve Zylia = VERY disappointed ) That just doesn't happen outside! It's like ambushing them. You could easily send a force out and hit them from behind (hell, head on) as they march. Its boring though. Like someone said earlier, they're no better than xp mobs, with a massive link h34r:

I hope they do get the Astral thingy sometime and overpower us. I want a real fight, not some overpowered beatdown from our side.

 

[Palidine]

Just out of curiosity, Had all the advancing Mobs been defeated outside the the walls and the Invasion been a complete failure on the MObs side... would there not have been a besieged event at all? would it not occur? would that possibly cause the mobs to regroup and bring a bigger force?


this may be pere's point, I see it as Valid. we don't know till it has happened.
Historicly you do want to prevent the armies from breaching walls during a seige. the are there to keep em out, not to have an arena to fight in.

sounds like it would be much more fun if they made it like the tower in sandy where you could use archery or magic from the city against the incoming forces.
Oh well next time!

 

[Veresko]

Well, page 18 and I just stopped reading. Same old story, Pere argues with everyone and there is no use in trying to make him see common sense. But, just for the sake of it, let's try.

I'll assume you are right Pere, that figthing the armies outside DOES actually give something, like make them slightly stronger for the next Besieged. Let'S fast-forward a few months and see what woudl happen.

1) Today: People try it your way and go outside, killing the army in a few minutes. We all have a laugh, think how lame it is and go on our way.

2) Few weeks later, we start noticing that the armies are stronger, maybe bigger. What will happen then? People will gather in stronger numbers, OUTSIDE, try to do first drafts at strategies, since now we know that killing them outside DOES in fact make them stronger, let's kick their asses and get better challenges, right?

3) A month or so after (at which point no one even bothers to think about fighting in town) the armies are even stronger. Now it's a real challenge, maybe Dynamis-like to use something you know. The rest of the mobs in the zone can be a problem. So peopel start gathering earlier to clear to zone (cause 75-100 level 75 can do that). Maybe LSs are made specifically for besieged. Strategies are refined, but we still win and send the mob packing, anticipating the thrill of the next besieged and the challenges it will bring.

4) Eventually, the army of Beastmen/Undead will become so strong and big that it will decimate the player's army, march into town and face..... no one. They'll take NPCs and the Astral .... something (I have a bad memory for those things).

Now, will people at that point go back in towns to actually experience besieged? No. They would have been workingon strategies for months, strategies that takes place OUTSIDE, using terrain maybe and all. What advantages would people get from figthing in town at this point? None. The town is just another zone, with neat designs and bridges. But it won't ease up a battle with a now very strong army of mobs. So poeple will go back to drawing boards and work better strategies, that take place OUTSIDE! And eventually they will be defeated again and this will go on and on and on.

So in case you don't see my point, let me lay it down for you. Why then did SE allow for battles in the city? The city offers nothing different then figthing outside, not now, not when the armies will be stronger. So following your logic, why is it allowed if you can't use it?

It is allowed cause people asked for it for 2 years. SE put it in the game to use it. The fact is, you DO get something for figthing in town. It's been said, it's been proven. SE put it in the game so we can use it. Maybe the armies of mobs actually get stronger once you kill them INSIDE the city for all we know.

Before you go on again with name-calling that bring absolutely nothing to your credibility, read the scenario again and please explain to me, if it's intended to be done your way, why SE allowed mobs to enter town? Why not just make a CS when they reach town saying you lost. Is it so 50 level 1 mules or level 5 pup can try to be a last line of defense when 100 level 75 failed?

Get a freakin clue.

 

[Bajaratt]

Give it time, I havent been to ToAU, But I can tell just by looking at the besiege map this is a progressive thing. In that each defeat they will get stronger, and they will bring more. In a month (hopefully ill be there by that point), shit will probably hit the fan.

As for the person that says Dynamis is "Easy and Boring", I agree with the boring, yeah it can be. As for easy ARE YOU OUT YOUR ****ing MIND!
What is easy about attending Dynamis 7 months straight and still have several members without certain gear. I think the word your looking for is "Dedication", something you and a lot of people lack apparently. Dynamis like most other MMORPG's, and most if not all events in FFXI it requires patience and dedication. Your in the wrong genre, if you think SE is just going to hand you everything.

I've been doing dynamis for well over a year now. I have some relic armor for my two 75 jobs and relic armor for my current main job and I'm still missing most of the relic armor for white mage. I have the dedication to work towards getting gear, looking at my post history regarding things being changed to make the game easier, I have been against it every time that I can remember. I don't want hand-outs, I want rewarded effort. It took me 7 months to get my very first piece of relic armor, and it wasn't even for white mage, my only 75 job at the time; it was armor that auto-dropped to me while we were waiting on a sam to log in to lot. Two months later, I got by far my best piece of relic armor, so I'm more than patient enough for dynamis.

Dynamis is routine, there is nothing new to learn about dynamis, there is nothing that hasn't been uncovered, except for maybe what causes relic armor to drop, but that's nigh unknowable. It is old content, but Peregrine goes on about it like it's the zenith of endgame, like it's the hardest and most rewarding aspect of endgame; when he is completely wrong. With a decent strategy and a decent team, you can win any zone, it doesn't require elite players or gear, just people who can pay attention and follow a strategy.

There is good relic armor for most jobs, but few jobs have more than 1-2 useful pieces and none have the full set as being good. This doesn't mean that I don't enjoy dynamis, I do, but it is not the grand effort that Peregrine makes it out to be.

 

[Bajaratt]

Just out of curiosity, Had all the advancing Mobs been defeated outside the the walls and the Invasion been a complete failure on the MObs side... would there not have been a besieged event at all? would it not occur? would that possibly cause the mobs to regroup and bring a bigger force?


this may be pere's point, I see it as Valid. we don't know till it has happened.
Historicly you do want to prevent the armies from breaching walls during a seige. the are there to keep em out, not to have an arena to fight in.

sounds like it would be much more fun if they made it like the tower in sandy where you could use archery or magic from the city against the incoming forces.
Oh well next time!

Besieged didn't start until the mobs breached the city walls. Once they entered the zone, a cutscene began with them entering the city, after that cutscene was over, there was a system message that said "Besieged has begun!" So the event started when they entered the city, but he's not there so anything he's presenting as "factual" is just made-up bullshit he's using to try to justify himself to anyone not paying attention.

Yeah, it would make sense to fight them outside the city, but that's not what the players wanted; they wanted to fight within the city, that's what SE gave them. SE never said anything about fighting them outside the city and no want wanted to do that except the few people who went outside to ruin everyone's fun. Peregrine has zero proof that killing outside gives any benefit at all, his whole point is based on conjecture.

Regardless of if his theory proves correct or not, there was no good reason to go outside when there were so many people inside waiting for the event to start. The only reason the people did it was to prevent the people inside from getting to enjoy besieged, to enjoy the content. Peregrine is making them out to be heroes when they're really just assholes trying to ruin the game for other people. This was the first time besieged had ever occured on the server; if they had gone outside to kill the mob army in a month no one would care, but they tried to ruin the unique occurance for the server.

Veresko, I said the same thing and he just ignored it because he doesn't have a response. He never really responds to anything, he just belittles people for not following his will and restricting themselves to ancient content.

 

[Tymon]

- During Besieged, level and speed of beastman army marching towards Al Zahbi have been modified.

ORRY?

 

[Peregrine]

So in case you don't see my point, let me lay it down for you. Why then did SE allow for battles in the city?
Before you go on again with name-calling that bring absolutely nothing to your credibility, read the scenario again and please explain to me, if it's intended to be done your way, why SE allowed mobs to enter town?

Get a freakin clue.

And, why, Einstein, would they let you decimate them before besieged even started? Are you that stupid? You can't honestly be asking me why square allows you to fight in the town. They allow you to fight in town when you fail to kill them in the field. Fact. Why do they allow you to kill them in the field if you idiots claim that they're not supposed to be killed in the field?

Dumbass, don't come in here asking me why SE allows battles in the town. You fight in town when you fail to repel them, just like the regional messages tell you to. Honestly. What is wrong with you people? Do you have nothing to do but type how stupid you are?

You have no pride. You have no courage. You honestly couldn't care less what actually happens in the game so long as you get your banal low-yield content on. My guess is that you all will throw a victory to a weak horde in order to get your content on. You have years to see all the content, but you just have to see it all in the first week, don't you? Yeah, you do. Because you're content whores.

What if your sister lived there? Would you let them even attempt a raid on the town just so you could see what happens? No. That is pathetic. There will come a time when they'll be so strong that you can't repel them outside, and that will make the town fight all the sweeter when you've done everything in your power to fight against it. And if there won't naturally come that time, SE will finally and for once, be impressed with your efforts instead of underwhelmed. You idiots have begged for nerfs on content difficulty for the last three years. You had one opportunity to check underrated by the dev team. And you failed. You should have had SE saying, damn. The mobs didn't even ****ing get to town on any servers...but no. If mobs ever get harder, which they probably won't because you retards let them all the way into town untouched, you won't even be ready for it. You'll lose on accident to a weak force.

I want to see what you want to see. You fools just don't know how to see what you want to see. Do everything you can to repel those forces, and Square will ensure that you lose eventually. Now what would you rather have? A battle that rages in the field, then moves to town...or you idiots watching as they just walk right up and knock?

You want both, because THAT is content. Fight them in the field, then when you fail, fight in the town. That is by default more content than you beggars whore for. If you let mobs walk free in the field, you are ignoring content, and you are a fool for doing so.

 

[Elemmire]

Tymon wins, you can shut up now

 

[Peregrine]

that's why you try something new in dynamis everytime tomake it fun :3 what's this? the AH in Sandy? PULL!! (All of it D

...welcome to uh...2004.

 

[Peregrine]

Peregrine...always making me laugh.

I really hope you aren't like this in real life. If that is the case I highly suggest you seek help.

I was there for the 1st besieged. I was curious to see what would happen when they got to city. I got a cutscene, the music changed, some mobs appeared, I think I voked one and got 1 swing in, they all died quick. I am looking forward to when I am around when they invade again. I want them to win and take NPCs and learn what I need to do to rescue them or whatever. It is all about fun and seeing new shit.

Oh and Peregrine, I run a Dynamis shell with an average of about 30 and have accomplished all that you have in a much shorter time. In your logic that makes me superior to you. Which ofcourse I am.

Sorry kiddo, half my red mages are 3/5+ on relic, all 12 of them. You're still just a startup. They started with 0.

 

[Tymon]

you pull the entire sandy AH?

 

[Peregrine]

lol you don't? We clear the AH and the field to the north of it. Don't tell me you didn't know there was a 30 minute out there in those summoners.

 

[Elemmire]

who doesn't? o.o it's nice to get for extra farming. And I don't mean pulling bits and pieces of the AH at a time but the ENTIRE AH at once (kinda like pulling the suicide house in windy!)