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M
Mokk
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Xean said:
He sure showed himself a hell of a lot in the bible according to some lunatics who wrote the gospels some decade or two after the death of jesus.
So instead of living your life by what you could easily assume is god's will you take someone else's word for it.
Score one for the weak mind.
I'ma go on record and say god told me all he wants is for people not to be douchebags, call it a gospel and build a religion around it.
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Since I have some time during class...
The people who wrote the synoptic gospels were the ones that knew Jesus personally. They didn't write it "a decade or two" after the death of Jesus; they themselves would have passed away already. They wrote it shortly after the death and return of Jesus.
You want to claim that they are liars by what they saw, when what they wrote has historical evidence. Did they have a reason to lie about the Roman leader named Pontius Pilate? They weren't being biased either, as they did mention that Pontius at first tried to resist the Jewish leaders to kill the other man on trial, Barnabbas, instead of Jesus. Recent archaelogical finds have found evidence that Pontius Pilate was real and did in fact live in the time of Jesus, during the reign of Caesar Augustus.
You can go on record and proclaim whatever you want. You're just giving evidence to what I'm saying about falsifiers, liars, etc. You trying to insult me by saying I have a weak mind? But you aren't able to distinguish when someone is lying and when someone is not. Weak mind? Not really. I've already said that there can be and is false teachers, prophets, etc, and am able to distinguish who is and who isn't, and this goes beyond this context.
You're insults and radical claims that I've said something when I haven't are kinda annoying.
I should start typing bad syntactically, grammatically, and have bad use of semantics so I can throw more to your fire.
Mokk said:
The people who wrote the synoptic gospels were the ones that knew Jesus personally. They didn't write it "a decade or two" after the death of Jesus; they themselves would have passed away already. They wrote it shortly after the death and return of Jesus.
You want to claim that they are liars by what they saw, when what they wrote has historical evidence. Did they have a reason to lie about the Roman leader named Pontius Pilate? They weren't being biased either, as they did mention that Pontius at first tried to resist the Jewish leaders to kill the other man on trial, Barnabbas, instead of Jesus. Recent archaelogical finds have found evidence that Pontius Pilate was real and did in fact live in the time of Jesus, during the reign of Caesar Augustus.
You can go on record and proclaim whatever you want. You're just giving evidence to what I'm saying about falsifiers, liars, etc. You trying to insult me by saying I have a weak mind? But you aren't able to distinguish when someone is lying and when someone is not. Weak mind? Not really. I've already said that there can be and is false teachers, prophets, etc, and am able to distinguish who is and who isn't, and this goes beyond this context.
You're insults and radical claims that I've said something when I haven't are kinda annoying.
I should start typing bad syntactically, grammatically, and have bad use of semantics so I can throw more to your fire.
M
Mokk
Guest
Xean said:
I'm sure you know more than the professors that've been commenting to when the gospels were written and then inturn mistranstlated as of late. Please do make sure to call the institutions including the church itself and let them know you've got it all figured out.
I'm not interested in claiming anyone is a liar. Take your own advice and stop putting words in my mouth. The fact of the matter is the biblical accounts of god have as much credibility to him as paul bunyan. I'm sure there was a big guy who liked pancakes and cut down trees some time back but his image was hyped out of proportion by word of mouth. That's how people work, it's called storytelling, we do it quite a bit and each time the details are either completely disproportionalised or they're changed to suit the needs of the teller. You claimed earlier the jews lead to the ultimate end of christ and now have the gall to bring pilate up? The responsibility lies with rome and no one else, do your homework.
Damn right i can, just like your apostles did. I lack no more credibility than any of them. If you can't admit there is room for contradiction and that all the answers aren't there than you're not a believer at all. You're narrowminded. Know what seperates the two? A comment along the lines of "That may, very well, be true and does indeed make sense. However i believe otherwise." which you have yet to cop to. I would say that you're the one who can't manage to distinguish some kind of rational truth from obvious fantastical bullshit, but i might be wrong you could just be absolutely convinced you're right which is a shame. Weakminded is meant as an insult, simply an observation. If you've got all the answers alert the media, otherwise you're just another zealot out there who knows little to nothing of the real world. I can admit i might, indeed, be wrong and that that's ok, what's your excuse?
Apperantly you can't manage to reread your own posts from the soapbox. You're interpretations aren't my failure, nor are they my problem. Work it out on your own time or maybe just manage not to have a tiny penis everytime someone makes some sense at you in respect to this issue. How's that for insulting? Now you've got something to compare and contrast.
Your beliefs are one thing, but (and to get back on topic after fuck knows how long) representing them as unquestionable fact is the most discrediting thing you can manage to do to your faith as a representative of it.
I just want to go on record that for everything Mokk just said about professors and new evidence, there has been something found that counters that. Neither proves anything, and for every arguement, something's going to be found that "proves" it.
My archaeology professor did say that those who wrote the gospels did write it a decade or two later. But these were still people who knew Christ personally and were there for everything. Now -once again- please stop insulting my belief system! I don't call you a lunatic or make any number of lewd comments about how I'm smarter than you (cuz I'm probably not), so I'd appreciate it if you didn't either.
This is gone from a flame about a dumb guy who was intolerant towards something to a rediculous religious debate where it's "I'm smarter than you, so I don't believe in God" and "But the Bible says (insert something here)." You all know my stance, and you MUST realize this is getting you all (and myself) nowhere very VERY fast.
My archaeology professor did say that those who wrote the gospels did write it a decade or two later. But these were still people who knew Christ personally and were there for everything. Now -once again- please stop insulting my belief system! I don't call you a lunatic or make any number of lewd comments about how I'm smarter than you (cuz I'm probably not), so I'd appreciate it if you didn't either.
This is gone from a flame about a dumb guy who was intolerant towards something to a rediculous religious debate where it's "I'm smarter than you, so I don't believe in God" and "But the Bible says (insert something here)." You all know my stance, and you MUST realize this is getting you all (and myself) nowhere very VERY fast.
A
Alerith
Guest
I love how Westyle can commuincate my thoughts in a single image.
Westyle has this amazing ability to post a single image and make total sense.
Your my hero!
Westyle has this amazing ability to post a single image and make total sense.
Your my hero!
M
Mokk
Guest
I've not insulted the religion at all. The bible is full of fantastical stuff that couldn't possibly have happened, no two ways about it. I've stated numerous times i do, indeed, believe in a form of god but i won't go as far as to limit myself to just one ideal. It's not anyones place to designate who's right and who's wrong based on anything other than the fact that people won't go that far. You can't go at least that far in anything in life you're useless as a human being.
How hard is it?
Say it with me now "i might be wrong." Didn't that feel good? Just because you can admit you might be incorrect does not in any way, shape, form, or fashion detract from your belief system or personal faith. It just makes you a decent person to converse with.
You can't take conversations like this personally, it's all speculation and personal truth based on whatever experience you want to base it on. To claim anyone's religion holds merit over anyone elses or to go so far as to state your beliefs should dictate someone elses life and life choices is retarded, period.
How hard is it?
Say it with me now "i might be wrong." Didn't that feel good? Just because you can admit you might be incorrect does not in any way, shape, form, or fashion detract from your belief system or personal faith. It just makes you a decent person to converse with.
You can't take conversations like this personally, it's all speculation and personal truth based on whatever experience you want to base it on. To claim anyone's religion holds merit over anyone elses or to go so far as to state your beliefs should dictate someone elses life and life choices is retarded, period.
A
Alerith
Guest
I will repeat what I said before:
I believe it this certain way. Is it possible I'm wrong? Of course.
If im wrong, and god tells me so, either through a messanger or on judgment day, I will concede and ask for his forgivness.
Im always open to the possibility of being wrong.
I believe it this certain way. Is it possible I'm wrong? Of course.
If im wrong, and god tells me so, either through a messanger or on judgment day, I will concede and ask for his forgivness.
Im always open to the possibility of being wrong.
M
Mokk
Guest
Alerith said:
Which is why i took issue with Xean instead of your comments
I, too, could be wrong. I'm just saying you need to stop saying things like "fantastical" and "couldn't possibly have happened". That's very close-minded, especially if you consider the type of God I worship (all powerful, all knowing, etc). Could I be wrong? I hope not, but it's a possibility. Do I make statements that at least seem to be biased? ("(insert religion or religious book here) could not POSSIBLY be true because it doesn't fit the way I think).
I just say we should agree to disagree and let it rest. I'm at fault for taking it personally, I always do when my faith is the subject. I hope you don't think any less of me (though we've never spoken outside this subject). I'm a fairly nice guy, if I do say so myself.
imp:
I just say we should agree to disagree and let it rest. I'm at fault for taking it personally, I always do when my faith is the subject. I hope you don't think any less of me (though we've never spoken outside this subject). I'm a fairly nice guy, if I do say so myself.
imp:
M
Mokk
Guest
Alfreo said:I, too, could be wrong. I'm just saying you need to stop saying things like "fantastical" and "couldn't possibly have happened". That's very close-minded, especially if you consider the type of God I worship (all powerful, all knowing, etc). Could I be wrong? I hope not, but it's a possibility. Do I make statements that at least seem to be biased? ("(insert religion or religious book here) could not POSSIBLY be true because it doesn't fit the way I think).
I just say we should agree to disagree and let it rest. I'm at fault for taking it personally, I always do when my faith is the subject. I hope you don't think any less of me (though we've never spoken outside this subject). I'm a fairly nice guy, if I do say so myself.
fantastical is an apt word for it, i think.
Perhaps "couldn't possibly have happened" is a bit over the line but it's just as bad as saying it emphaticly did.
i don't think any less of anyone whereas politics and religion are concerned, they're hard to talk about with a calm demeanor and an open mind let alone feeling put on the defensive.
Oh I agree. Honestly, sometimes it felt like a good friend or family member was under attack. I know it's not what you were doing, it's just how it feels sometimes when I'm in these discussions. I'm just saying if God can do anything, sure He can do fantastical things, I'm just saying keep an open mind that it "could" have happened, as I believe it did. Oh, and thanks for being understanding, I like these conversations a lot more when it's less "CRAZINESS" and "BLASPHEMY" and more "Well I believe like this..." and "Well, there is another way to see that..." ya know?
Xean said:
Orchid said:
Yeshua changed nothing. His coming and grace were prophesied from day 1. The OT was prep for NT.
Very controbersial theme am christian and all i could say to U is that even tho u might think differently from me...if u read the bible u will find answer to ur questions and problems...i do it and it works for me...might work for u.
hey you shut up, i saw jesus in in my chicken nugget last week. IT'S REAL! THE APOCOLYPSE IS STILL COMING!Strid said:
