Bible Thumpers

Alfreo said:
I'm new to this. I just joined today, and I have a friend of mine playing on Quez. I just want to say, not every Christian who believes in the Bible as a end-all-be-all standard for life is a "Bible-Thumper". Some of us are okay with homosexuality, not because it's "right" (I do think it's wrong, but stay with me) but because I have just as many faults. I'm not perfect, so I have absolutely no right to judge someone else. My girlfriend (I'm a guy, btw) has a male gay best friend that I'm completely okay with.

Too many people judge devout Christians. I believe homosexuality is wrong. I believe the Bible is right, even though I can't explain many of the things in it. Do I love homosexuals any less? No. Some of the nicest, most accepting people I know are gay.

Jesus once said that "he who is without sin, cast the first stone" when talking about if we should judge an adulterous person. I have my own personal adultery problems. Jesus still loves me, though He will punish me as any loving father would. I'm trying to change. Many people brought up free-will, too.

God gave us free will because he wanted us to choose Him, not for Him to choose for us. It's not a mistake, saying it's a mistake goes against the way I believe God to be (though I'm not saying you can't believe God or not believe God in your own way).

I have not read any of the 22 pages of this discussion. We're not going to change anybody, I promise. If I've said something someone else has, so be it. I do know that nobody who reads this will care. Every time I pour my heart out in these dumb forums, I'm ignored. Just know that Jesus loves you, whether you're homosexual, a crook, a believer, or an athiest (or anything else at all).
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And i agree with this as well
 
Everybody is indeed entitled to their own views. I just dont find it right for someone to interpert god for you.

Personally I dont care either. And im not generalizing. This is just directed towards those who deserve it.
 
Not so. Homosexuality is repeatedly mentioned as forbidden. Believers are to love the sinner but hate the sin. We care about everyone, but don't expect us to support what God forbids. The Scripture clearly states no homosexual enters Heaven. But it goes on to include murderers, fornicators, theives, liars etc. So there is no such thing as a stealing Christian, murderous Christian, nor Homosexual Christian. You either obey God, or you rebell. If you ask us, we will not lie. Too much is at stake to candy-coat.
 
But who, besides jesus and god himself, have not lied?

There are so many liars.

There are also alot of theives.

There are also plenty of murderers

and homosexuals seem to be the minority here.
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I wish I could see the bible in its origonal form, just so i could sift through all the translation errors and bias that was added in.

For all we know, one of the translators could of had something against homosexuality and added that in during the translation process. (Im not saying this is the case, im just saying that its possible.)
 
possible, nay probable.

Seeing as how anyone who has commented to this thread has been basing it on a sacreligious book that has been "added and taken away from" (look it up, revelations among other chapters) your piety can swing on my blaspheming scrotum.

For that matter what if the church changes it's mind, as churches do quite a bit given an accurate depiction of the institution. Where will the brainwashed masses be then? Oh that's right, retreating in to the dark corners with their new indoctrination and accepting that they were, indeed, wrong again.
 
There are plenty of religious people and denominations which are accepting of gay people and don't think they're automatically hellbound, so obviously the blanket condemnation has seriously frayed over the years as society has changed. Churches adapt with the times.
 
Brokenchain said:
Not so. Homosexuality is repeatedly mentioned as forbidden. Believers are to love the sinner but hate the sin. We care about everyone, but don't expect us to support what God forbids. The Scripture clearly states no homosexual enters Heaven. But it goes on to include murderers, fornicators, theives, liars etc. So there is no such thing as a stealing Christian, murderous Christian, nor Homosexual Christian. You either obey God, or you rebell. If you ask us, we will not lie. Too much is at stake to candy-coat.
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Way to not read the thread, GG.
 
Brokenchain said:
Not so. Homosexuality is repeatedly mentioned as forbidden. Believers are to love the sinner but hate the sin. We care about everyone, but don't expect us to support what God forbids. The Scripture clearly states no homosexual enters Heaven. But it goes on to include murderers, fornicators, theives, liars etc. So there is no such thing as a stealing Christian, murderous Christian, nor Homosexual Christian. You either obey God, or you rebell. If you ask us, we will not lie. Too much is at stake to candy-coat.
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If you don't mind me asking, can you please quote and specify the section that states no homosexual enters heaven? I admit I haven't read much of the bible, but I really can't see that something like that would be written. I'm curious to know where that part is.
 
Ten Comandments
"I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt..."
This commandment is to believe in the existence of God, that God exists for all time, that God is the sole creator of all that exists, that God determines the course of events in this world.
"Thou shall have no other gods besides Me... Do not make a sculpted image or any likeness of what is in the heavens above..."
One is required to believe in God and God alone. This prohibits belief in or worship of any additional deities, gods, spirits or incarnations. To deny the uniqueness of God, is to deny all that is written in the Torah. It is also a prohibition against making or possessing objects that one or other may bow down to or serve, including any artistic representations of God or any sculpture of a human being. One must not bow down to or serve any being or object but God.
"Thou shall not swear falsely by the name of the LORD..."
This commandment is to never take the name of God in a vain oath. This includes four types of prohibited oaths: an oath affirming as true a matter one knows to be false, an oath that affirms the patently obvious, an oath denying the truth of a matter one knows to be true, and an oath to perform an act that is beyond one's capabilities.
"Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy"
thou is to declare of the greatness and the holiness of the Sabbath, and observe each Sabbath day, as God defined for the Jews during the Exodus. Each day of the Exodus, God provided food to the Jews to collect except on the Sabbath. Instead a double portion was provided the day before the Sabbath. One is enjoined from performing work on the Sabbath.
"thou shall honour your father and your mother..."
The obligation to honor one's parents is an obligation that one owes to God and fulfills this obligation through one's actions towards one's parents. This commandment is an interesting development when compared to other laws of the Ancient East (for instance, the Code of Hammurabi) that do not call for equal respect of the father and the mother. Jewish sages note that the 5th commandment, on the border between commandments on relationship with God and those between humankind, is to "Honor your father and your mother...", and draw lessons from this that a person should respect parents (and by implication, elders) only somewhat less than one would God himself, and that parents should be moral guidance to a person as God is to society.
"Thou shall not murder"
The Hebrew word ratsach, used in this commandment, is close to the word murder; kill is a mistranslation, but it does not translate directly to the word murder. While most uses of the word ratsach are in passages describing murder, in Proverbs 22:13 a lion ratsach a man to death, many argue since a lion cannot murder anyone, murder is a flawed translation as well. Also in Joshua 20:3, ratsach is used to describe death by negligence. A closer translation would be to kill in the manner of a predatory animal. Some Jews take offense at translations which state "Thou shall not kill", which they hold to be a flawed interpretation, for there are circumstances in which one is required to kill, such as if killing is the only way to prevent one person from murdering another, or killing in self-defense.
Many Protestant and most Catholic Christians hold that this verse forbids abortion; Judaism does not dogmatically regard abortion as murder (c.f Ex. 21:22-23, and Rashi thereon), although Orthodox Judaism prohibits abortion in most circumstances based on several other prohibitions.
"Thou shall not commit adultery."
"Thou shall not steal."
This is not understood as stealing in the conventional sense, since theft of property is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offense. It can mean "do not kidnap".
"Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor"
One must not bear false witness in a court of law or other proceeding. Lying is forbidden elsewhere and is not a capital offence.
"Thou shall not covet your neighbor's house..."
One is forbidden to desire and plan how one may obtain that which God has given to another. Maimonides makes a distinction in codifying the laws between the instruction given here in Exodus (You shall not covet) and that given in Deuteronomy (You shall not desire), according to which one does not violate the Exodus commandment unless there is a physical action associated with the desire, even if this is legally purchasing an envied object.
According to the Medieval Sefer ha-Chinuch, the first four statements concern the relationship between God and human beings, while the second six statements concern the relationship between human beings. Rabbinic literature holds that the Ten Statements contain 14 or 15 distinct instructions.

nothing about homosexuals here
 
>.>

and if you are reffering to the Destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah the read
meaning Sodomite(anal sex) & Gomorrah(Fire and Brimstone)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah#The_Biblical_text

if you read carefully you will notice that it says the cities were "not" destroyed because of homosexuality but were destroyed because of the immorality there disbelief in GOD, which no one here has and there abbuse of the 7 deadly sins
 
Brokenchain said:
Not so. Homosexuality is repeatedly mentioned as forbidden. Believers are to love the sinner but hate the sin. We care about everyone, but don't expect us to support what God forbids. The Scripture clearly states no homosexual enters Heaven. But it goes on to include murderers, fornicators, theives, liars etc. So there is no such thing as a stealing Christian, murderous Christian, nor Homosexual Christian. You either obey God, or you rebell. If you ask us, we will not lie. Too much is at stake to candy-coat.
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Can you please quote where you get this from. This is a pretty crazy claim as I've read the Bible myself and I do not see it repeatedly saying that. It does repeatedly say that lust is forbidden. There's a difference.
 
The bible makes mention about SEXUAL INTERCOURSE between same sex couples. While I still dont agree that its wrong, the bible makes no mention about LOVING one of the opposite sex.

Some gay couples do not "do it" but rather fall in love and prehaps adopt a child.

Homosexual =/= intercourse. (Not neccisarily.)
 
Mokk said:
possible, nay probable.

Seeing as how anyone who has commented to this thread has been basing it on a sacreligious book that has been "added and taken away from" (look it up, revelations among other chapters) your piety can swing on my blaspheming scrotum.

For that matter what if the church changes it's mind, as churches do quite a bit given an accurate depiction of the institution. Where will the brainwashed masses be then? Oh that's right, retreating in to the dark corners with their new indoctrination and accepting that they were, indeed, wrong again.
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Please PLEASE stop insulting my religion when I personally haven't insulted anyone else's. I believe my Bible to be holy and the way it should be now. If you believe otherwise, that's fine, I know what I know and that's all that I know (wow, that sounded like Popeye). If you disagree with me, I have absolutely no problem with that, just don't insult me.
 
Zerayla said:
If you don't mind me asking, can you please quote and specify the section that states no homosexual enters heaven? I admit I haven't read much of the bible, but I really can't see that something like that would be written. I'm curious to know where that part is.
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All Scriptures posted from the LITV (Literal Version)

1Ti 1:3-17
(3) Even as I called on you to remain in Ephesus, (I going to Macedonia), that you might charge some not to teach other doctrines,
(4) nor to give heed to fables and to endless genealogies, which occasion doubts, rather than a stewardship of God in faith,
(5) but the end of the commandment is love out of a pure heart and a good conscience, and faith not pretended,
(6) from which having missed the mark, some turned aside to empty talking,
(7) wishing to be teachers of law, neither understanding what they say, nor about that which they confidently affirm.
(8) And we know that the Law is good, if anyone uses it lawfully,
(9) knowing this, that Law is not laid down for a righteous one, but for lawless and undisciplined ones, for ungodly and sinful ones, for unholy and profane ones, for slayers of fathers and slayers of mothers, for murderers,
(10) for fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, and if any other thing opposes sound doctrine,
(11) according to the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I was entrusted.
(12) And I have thanks to Him empowering me, our Lord Jesus Christ, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry,
(13) the one who before was a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and insolent; but I received mercy, because being ignorant I did it in unbelief.
(14) But the grace of our Lord abounded exceedingly with faith and love in Christ Jesus.
(15) Faithful is the Word and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.
(16) But for this reason I received mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all long-suffering, for an example to those being about to believe on Him to everlasting life.
(17) Now to the King eternal, incorruptible, invisible, the only wise God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1Co 6:1-20
(1) Does anyone of you having a matter against another dare to be judged before the unjust, and not before the saints?
(2) Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is judged by you, are you unworthy of small judgments?
(3) Do you not know that we shall judge angels, not to speak of this life?
(4) If, then, you truly have judgments of this life, those being least esteemed in the assembly, you seat these as judges.
(5) For I speak shame to you. So, is there not a wise one among you, not even one who will be able to give judgment on his brother in your midst?
(6) But brother is judged with brother, and this before unbelievers!
(7) Indeed, then, there is already a failure with you all, that you have lawsuits with yourselves. Why not instead be wronged? Why not instead be defrauded?
(8) But you do wrong, and defraud, and these things to brothers!
(9) Or do you not know that unjust ones will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be led astray, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals,
(10) nor thieves, nor covetous ones, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor plunderers shall inherit the kingdom of God.
(11) And some of you were these things, but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God.
(12) All things are lawful to me, but not all things profit. All things are lawful to me, but I will not be ruled by any.
(13) Foods for the belly, and the belly for foods, but God will destroy both this and these. But the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
(14) And God both raised up the Lord, and He will raise us up through His power.
(15) Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Then taking the members of Christ, shall I make them members of a harlot? Let it not be!
(16) Or do you not know that he being joined to a harlot is one body? For He says, "The two shall be into one flesh." Gen. 2:24
(17) But the one being joined to the Lord is one spirit.
(18) Flee fornication. Every sin which a man may do is outside the body, but he doing fornication sins against his own body.
(19) Or do you not know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which you have from God, and you are not of yourselves?
(20) You were bought with a price; then glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are of God.

Lev 18:22
(22) And you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is a perversion.

Deu 23:17
(17) There shall be no prostitute among the daughters of Israel, nor shall there be a homosexual among the sons of Israel.

Jdg 19:22
(22) They were making their hearts merry. And, behold, men of the city, sons of worthless men, went around the house, beating on the door. And they spoke to the old man, the house-master, saying, Bring out the man who has come into your house, and we shall know him.

Rom 1:16-32
(16) For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation to everyone believing, both to Jew first, and to Greek;
(17) for in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; even as it has been written, "But the just shall live by faith." Hab. 2:4
(18) For God's wrath is revealed from Heaven on all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, holding the truth in unrighteousness,
(19) because the thing known of God is clearly known within them, for God revealed it to them.
(20) For the unseen things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, both His eternal power and Godhead, for them to be without excuse.
(21) Because knowing God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful. But they became vain in their reasonings, and their undiscerning heart was darkened.
(22) Professing to be wise, they became foolish
(23) and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into a likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things.
(24) Because of this, God gave them up to impurity in the lusts of their hearts, their bodies to be dishonored among themselves,
(25) who changed the truth of God into the lie, and worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
(26) Because of this, God gave them up to dishonorable passions, for even their females changed the natural use to that contrary to nature.
(27) And likewise, the males also forsaking the natural use of the female burned in their lust toward one another, males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving back within themselves the reward which was fitting for their error.
(28) And even as they did not think fit to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,
(29) having been filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, iniquity, covetousness, malice, being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,
(30) slanderers, God-haters, insolent, proud, braggarts, devisers of evil things, disobedient to parents,
(31) without discernment, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful,
(32) who knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but also approve those practicing them.

Joh 3:5-21
(5) Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, If one is not generated out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
(6) That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit.
(7) Do not wonder because I said to you, You must be generated from above.
(8) The Spirit breathes where He desires, and you hear His voice; but you do not know from where He comes, and where He goes; so is everyone having been generated from the Spirit.
(9) Nicodemus answered and said to Him, How are these things able to occur?
(10) Jesus answered and said to him, You are the teacher of Israel, and you do not know these things?
(11) Truly, truly, I say to you, That which we know, we speak; and that which we have seen, we testify. And you do not receive our testimony.
(12) If I tell you earthly things, and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
(13) And no one has gone up into Heaven, except He having come down out of Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven.
(14) And even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
(15) that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(16) For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone believing into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(17) For God did not send His Son into the world that He might judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(18) The one believing into Him is not condemned; but the one not believing has already been condemned, for he has not believed into the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(19) And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness more than the Light, for their works were evil.
(20) For everyone practicing wickedness hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, that his works may not be exposed.
(21) But the one doing the truth comes to the Light, that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God.
 
Its ok

hell.jpg


We're all going to hell anyway (^.^)d
 
You are your own religion. You follow YOUR beliefs, no one else's. Your likes and dislikes aren't the same as someone else's. The Bible? Wether you strongly or vaguely believe in it or what it says, is YOUR choice. It's not like someone put a gun to your head and told you to believe. Do you believe in unicorns? Dragons? Your choice. As far as I'm concerned, if someone's thought of it it's real, because it at least exists in their head.

But wether your f-!king bible says homosexuality is fine or not, I don't give a sh-!t. You're the one choosing to have a problem with that way of life, don't go blaming your outlook of things on your bible just because it says that stuff.
 
So nows not the best time to confess about my 'relationship' with a sheep the other day?
 
um please, lets not play the "interpret the bible to suit my arguement" game. If youre homophobic just own up and say youre homophobic. Dont blame it on god.
btw if youre looking for contradictions to those passages, or indeed practically any part of the bible go here.

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

some favorites about the god youre claiming to emulate.

God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family.
gen 19:24

After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control.
gen 38:8-10

God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." exodus 11:7

After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." exodus 12:29

Do not allow others to worship a different god. Conquer them and destroy their religious property. exodus 23:24

God, "whose name is Jealous", will not tolerate the worship of any other god. exodus 34:14

Handicapped people cannot approach the altar of God. They would "profane" it. leviticus 21:16-23

A man curses and blasphemes while disputing with another man. Moses asks God what to do about it. God says that the whole community must stone him to death. "And the children of Israel did as the Lord and Moses commanded." leviticus 24:10-23

God describes the torments that he has planned for those who displease him. The usual stuff: plagues, burning fevers that will consume the eyes, etc. but he reserves the worst for the little children. He says "ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it," "I will send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children," and "ye shall eat the flesh of your sons and daughters." leviticus 26:16-39

theres plenty more and not only in the old testament, but if you want to reference old testament morality to lend weight to your homophobic stance make sure you support baby killing, torture, discrimination against the handicapped, murder, and raping your brothers wife... after you kill him.
 
versiontwo said:
So nows not the best time to confess about my 'relationship' with a sheep the other day?
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Go right ahead. Just dont give any details.

As was stated before, your beliefs are your own. If you wanna fuck a sheep, go right ahead, and make sure you enjoy yourself.

I do believe in the bible. But not its current "version". I dont see how anyone can take every word in the bible as the ultimate truth when it has been altered so much due to translation errors and bias.

For all we know, someone who was translating the book decided that they didnt like homosexuality and figured more people would listen if it was in the bible.

If this is the case, then its working.
If its not, then god will tell me on judgment day and I will admit I was wrong.
 
Seriously, this is nuts. Can somebody lock this topic 'cuz not only is it old, but nobody's getting anywhere. I know what I believe, you know what you believe and we all disagree. WHO CARES? Don't force your religion onto someone else, I'm stopping right now. And please PLEASE if this topic stays open, stop insulting my holy book!
 
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