BOL - Check your members some more

[Firestreak]

Yes, but they'd been killing the placeholders for hours. Now it's debatable if that gives them the right to solely claim the NM as theirs, however many would argue it's extremely rude and aggressive to move in on a NM people have been killing placeholders for and try to swoop in and voke it. I myself disagree, and think it's fair game.
However, the question seems to be if this party told the LS they specifically would NOT take ulli, at which point they instead did in fact take it.

There are questions that must be answered, that seem unclear.

1. Was there officially an agreement with the PT and the LS?
2. Did the alliance hold up their end of the deal? If not, how, and at the time of Ulli's pop, were they presently holding up their end of the deal.
3. Was pulling Ulli a mistake, if so, why wasn't it simply given back to the alliance?

This withstanding, would anyone care to argue that it's entirely unjustified if the party had lied purposely to the LS so they could swoop in for Ulli's claim to take it back at any means neccessary?
Or is the argument that in this specific case there are more factors I am unware of?

 

[xKronox]

Deci, I never had anything against you. But let me say this...

Why are you the only person defending yourself? Where are the other people who were in your alliance at the time?

They have their evidence to claim that you have MPK'd them. In the first pic, it is clear that you were not joking around at all.

Where is your proof that this was not a MPK?

I mean come on now. In the first pic you clearly say, "Ethics out the window." Then "Dog eat dog." What more proof do you need that you MPK'd them? Do you really think anyone is that fucking naive?

Yet after being accused, and basicly proven guilty, you still act like a child, and deny everything.

If you or your LS want ANY respect back from ANYONE then you guys should be a man and admit that what you did was wrong, and apologize.

 

[decidence]

Yes, but they'd been killing the placeholders for hours. Now it's debatable if that gives them the right to solely claim the NM as theirs, however many would argue it's extremely rude and aggressive to move in on a NM people have been killing placeholders for and try to swoop in and voke it. I myself disagree, and think it's fair game.
However, the question seems to be if this party told the LS they specifically would NOT take ulli, at which point they instead did in fact take it.

There are questions that must be answered, that seem unclear.

1. Was there officially an agreement with the PT and the LS?
2. Did the alliance hold up their end of the deal? If not, how, and at the time of Ulli's pop, were they presently holding up their end of the deal.
3. Was pulling Ulli a mistake, if so, why wasn't it simply given back to the alliance?

This withstanding, would anyone care to argue that it's entirely unjustified if the party had lied purposely to the LS so they could swoop in for Ulli's claim to take it back at any means neccessary?
Or is the argument that in this specific case there are more factors I am unware of?

Firestreak, Im glad we have some intelligent people on this forum to actually bring a case in front of an audience with actual civil questions that can be answered.

I will answer on behalf of BoLSF's side of things..

1. I am primarily coordinating the LS (what they kill and when) while up in Sky and I heard nothing about the agreement, which is why I suggested to Rollie we would stop killing the Golems when I first saw them. Acavar (a close friend of Rollie apparently) told me that they had said to him they wouldn't take Ulli.

2. At the time of the deal, the whole area had been cleared of golems (which I guess is why they came out from their camp and I was able to make the deal). We had no intention to pull golems from that point onward and were in the process of honoring that deal (by not spamming voke when Ullikummi spawned) when Vin decided to crash the party so to speak.

3. Good question... I asked Rollie why they took it and he said it was not his intention, and later I asked Zalbag why it was taken and he said he was against it (which made it sound pre-meditated, as if they decided to do this sometime during when I was making the deal with them). Not only does this enforce that the pull was on purpose but also backs up the claim that they had agreed not to pull Ullikummi to start with, although I didn't hear this officially from one of them it was obviously not their intention and this is what WE were lead on to believe by them.

 

[decidence]

Deci, I never had anything against you. But let me say this...

Why are you the only person defending yourself? Where are the other people who were in your alliance at the time?

They have their evidence to claim that you have MPK'd them. In the first pic, it is clear that you were not joking around at all.

Where is your proof that this was not a MPK?

I mean come on now. In the first pic you clearly say, "Ethics out the window." Then "Dog eat dog." What more proof do you need that you MPK'd them? Do you really think anyone is that fucking naive?

Yet after being accused, and basicly proven guilty, you still act like a child, and deny everything.

If you or your LS want ANY respect back from ANYONE then you guys should be a man and admit that what you did was wrong, and apologize.

Please spare me the generalizations... Ive told everyone else to refrain from posting on this thread right off the bat because I know how most people will respond to them. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent according to most teenagers on this forum.

Where in this entire thread have I "denied everything", like I said, I watched the MPK with my own eyes, I was not a direct participant in the action but I did talk a lot in /say and you can see that... I guess you can call me the John Madden of the action.

I also said that I knew they were running Fraps, someone in the LS told everyone that very early on... I expected there to be screenshots, I am not suprised. I actually expected movie footage, which is why I tailed Vindictive for most of the entire time.

How do you know "we were in the wrong"? Isn't that all just personal opinion... either you feel the XP PT was justified for lieing and taking our NM after hours of camping or you think we are justified for retaliating in anger after having our trust shattered by a lie.

Sure, we should apologize, but so should they, and so should a whole shit load of players that commit acts like this everyday and get away with it because no one is paying attention to them on the QCDN Flameboard (which really doesn't matter in the grand scope of things).

If your going to make an objective argument, dont take sides... Im in the damn LS thats being accused and my posts are more objective then yours right now.

 

[Peregrine]

I mean come on now. In the first pic you clearly say, "Ethics out the window." Then "Dog eat dog." What more proof do you need that you MPK'd them? Do you really think anyone is that fucking naive?

Let's not kid ourselves, this is the player who posted on the auction board trying to trick people into not bazaaring an item that he needed by claiming that most people sell it to npc. Seems like if this shell is prone to this type of thing, this ass fits right in.

 

[Rone]

LOL this is a lame attempt in trying to justify a MPK

 

[decidence]

I mean come on now. In the first pic you clearly say, "Ethics out the window." Then "Dog eat dog." What more proof do you need that you MPK'd them? Do you really think anyone is that fucking naive?

Let's not kid ourselves, this is the player who posted on the auction board trying to trick people into not bazaaring an item that he needed by claiming that most people sell it to npc. Seems like if this shell is prone to this type of thing, this ass fits right in.

Peregrine, sometimes when you open your mouth, you should do the research beforehand.

I was told by a fellow player that he had worked out a deal with someone to sell him all their items your speaking off because normally he would NPC them and this fellow player could offer him a better price. Therefore I extended the same deal through the AH Forum... it was not an attempt to "rip someone off" because why the hell would I need to do that... its the cheap ingredient for christs sakes... and I really dont need such a small amount of money I would gain by buying direct instead of from AH. The benefit was to not have to camp the AH for the item and get it in bulk instead... why dont you stick to the main topic? If you dont have anything to say about it, why reply? Do you have nothing better to do at this hour?

I do... goodnight.

 

[decidence]

This thead is over as far as Im concerned, I will not be leaving anymore messages in here, I said as much as I could say as truthfully and as straight forward as I saw it while it was happening.

I will continue to try and contact the opposing members that were involved and try to resolve this the proper way. Which unfortunately for all you kids that are deprived of drama and relationships in real life will not be including you.

 

[xKronox]

Deci, I never had anything against you. But let me say this...

Why are you the only person defending yourself? Where are the other people who were in your alliance at the time?

They have their evidence to claim that you have MPK'd them. In the first pic, it is clear that you were not joking around at all.

Where is your proof that this was not a MPK?

I mean come on now. In the first pic you clearly say, "Ethics out the window." Then "Dog eat dog." What more proof do you need that you MPK'd them? Do you really think anyone is that fucking naive?

Yet after being accused, and basicly proven guilty, you still act like a child, and deny everything.

If you or your LS want ANY respect back from ANYONE then you guys should be a man and admit that what you did was wrong, and apologize.

Please spare me the generalizations... Ive told everyone else to refrain from posting on this thread right off the bat because I know how most people will respond to them. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent according to most teenagers on this forum.

Where in this entire thread have I "denied everything", like I said, I watched the MPK with my own eyes, I was not a direct participant in the action but I did talk a lot in /say and you can see that... I guess you can call me the John Madden of the action.

I also said that I knew they were running Fraps, someone in the LS told everyone that very early on... I expected there to be screenshots, I am not suprised. I actually expected movie footage, which is why I tailed Vindictive for most of the entire time.

How do you know "we were in the wrong"? Isn't that all just personal opinion... either you feel the XP PT was justified for lieing and taking our NM after hours of camping or you think we are justified for retaliating in anger after having our trust shattered by a lie.

Sure, we should apologize, but so should they, and so should a whole shit load of players that commit acts like this everyday and get away with it because no one is paying attention to them on the QCDN Flameboard (which really doesn't matter in the grand scope of things).

If your going to make an objective argument, dont take sides... Im in the damn LS thats being accused and my posts are more objective then yours right now.

having our trust shattered by a lie.

First of all where was the understanding that we had? I wasn't told not to kill Statues, I didn't even know (and I expect most people in our small alliance) that the Xp PT was even there until we saw them emerge from the room, which at that point I said that we would not pull any golems (obviously because why would we waste our time on them after being there for over 4hours it was getting tedious and an XP PT can kill them for us).

The KICKER here is, after we stopped pulling golems and stopped spamming voke because we all saw there was a PT here now and they had apparently said they werent going to pull Ullikummi... the NM decides to finally spawn... and Vindictive vokes it about 5 seconds after it popped. AFTER we had all stopped spamming to let this XP PT (who has only been in there camp for like 15mins max) kill golems.

In your frist post you claim that there was no trust, no pact, or anything, then you just latter assumed by yourself to leave the golems alone so the XP PT can level, and you can relax.

How ever in one of your latest posts, you justify the MPK becuase thus this pact was broken.

Due to this, you are completely telling oposite stories and this is more evidence to prove you guilty, I am sorry. :?

 

[Rone]

In your frist post you claim that there was no trust, no pact, or anything, then you just latter assumed by yourself to leave the golems alone so the XP PT can level, and you can relax.

How ever in one of your latest posts, you justify the MPK becuase thus this pact was broken.

Due to this, you are completely telling oposite stories and this is more evidence to prove you guilty, I am sorry. :?

Amen!

 

[mastershake]

In your frist post you claim that there was no trust, no pact, or anything, then you just latter assumed by yourself to leave the golems alone so the XP PT can level, and you can relax.

How ever in one of your latest posts, you justify the MPK becuase thus this pact was broken.

Due to this, you are completely telling oposite stories and this is more evidence to prove you guilty, I am sorry. :?

Amen!

Sorry deci, I dont know you and have couple friends in bol (Pheona is the shit!)

but yea kronox does have a damn good point thier

 

[elusiv3]

Let me elaborate and tell my side of the story.

What happend, to my knowledge, was there was an agreement between one of my fellow party members and a member of BoL that they would leave the exp mobs for us and we wouldn't go for ulli. Fine, that works out great. They can do their thing and we can do what we came to do.

We were there for a good 30 minutes (i know this, because i was on my second food when ulli popped), and we were barely able to pull chain 3's.
We pulled about 3 chains before ulli popped. If you aren't familiar with the camp we were at, there are exactly 10 spawns of Aura Statues. Which is enough mobs for an exp pt to pull 2 chain 5's with and have them pop again ready for another chain after the 10th mob is dead. that made it clear to me they were killing the mobs. So, I took that as they weren't going to holdup their end of the deal, so why should we hold up ours?

Ulli pops, I engage and provoke it. We pull it to the room with no circular teleport, which was where we camped. A few of the members used the cure IV, invince, JAs tactic to try to get it back. Which didn't work because ulli would just turn to them and use heavy strike, which clears all hate.

We get it down to about half health, when the mpk attempt started dropping my party members one by one. We continue fighting with what we had and got it down to about 1/4 health. At this point, I pull it to the other side where the teleport is m in attempts to kite the mob around while one of the rdms in my pt ( we were the only two left at that point) tried to nuke it. Thf in their party ran in with 4-5 mobs and dies where i was kiting the NM. Rdm gets aggro and dies, so i'm the only one left. I run around and stall for a good 10-15 minutes until i lost claim. And in vain, i retaliate with an mpk of my own. I grab a few golemns and blow up right where they were camping.

The reason I claimed the NM is because our so called 'agreement' was broken, therefore ulli was fair game. There you have it my side of the story. Do with it as you will.

There are a few points in some of the replies that I would like to touch up on, but it's 6:20 in the morning and I haven't slept yet. Just wanted to put up my side of the story before going to bed.

 

[elusiv3]

oh, I'm Vindicative in game btw. :lol:

 

[Elemmire]

pics don't work T.T I wanna see the proof XD

 

[Elemmire]

what point? bol isnt the only ls that need autumnstone

Funny you say this... cuz Rollie told me in /tell that none of them were in GodLS or needed the stone (this was supposed justification of them supposidely going to give us the stone after killing it).

errr.. I hate double posting.. but Rolliefingaz? he's in NH.. and we could always use more pop items XD (unless he left or something... I really have no idea what's going on now-a-days)

 

[yanzi]

just goes to say, mpk solves everything. :lol:

 

[Elemmire]

*shakes Yanzi* make the pictures work, damn it X.X

 

[Raesvelg]

Pics worked just fine for me... :O

Anyway.

Bit of "he said she said" here.... >.> But not as much as Deci seems to think there is.

You MPK'd. Even if they went back on the agreement not to kill Ulli so that you wouldn't kill their XP mobs, you STILL Mpk'd. At which point Vind was completely justified in pulling your own mobs back to you.

And frankly, the whole thing sounds more believable from Vind's version. XP party would have cleared their presence with SOMEONE when they started camping there. Maybe not you, maybe poor communication within your alliance.... so what? So after a half hour or so of watching you pull their XP mobs, they came out to have a word with you over it. Hijinks ensue, and someone in your alliance decides to MPK them, further hijinks ensue, and Vind brings your mobs back to you.

Anyway... prior to the screen shots, sounds like it went down like so: XP party enters, talks with Acavar. Either Acavar neglects to mention it to anyone else, or does and nobody notices. Either way, the agreement is purely one sided, and the XP party is at that point the only group upholding it. 30 minutes pass, xp sucks, party comes out to confront the campers, a new agreement is struck, but at this point, from the xp party's point of view, it'll probably be moot since you've already killed all the mobs when you said you wouldn't. Discussion within the party ensues as to whether or not they should keep the bargain, majority rules against keeping it. Ulli pops, is pulled by the party (which is still funny), and people decide to MPK after attempts to claim steal fail.

 

[Atrbiohazard]

/sigh...

This is starting to get pathetic. The only reason you guys keep saying "all of BoL" is because the ones posting this don't like BoL.

[No offense to ANY members from the following linkshells. I'm using them as an example.]

If someone were to do something like this or the other post from NAFB or NH, you wouldn't see topics saying "NAFB/NH check your members" or hear flaming of those linkshells. Just those people.

Last I checked, this was the forum that was always saying "You're so immature" or "This is so childish" when someone would try this. What the heck happened? Did everyone on Quetzy suddenly take stupid pills? THIS is getting immature.

If you want to flame BoL, fine. Not like they haven't heard it all before but don't bring the whole damn LS in because of 1 person.

Syliph gets flamed. You don't see anyone bringing the whole linkshell down because of it. Same with Colbwa and WSM and everyone. Go back and look at 99.9% of the topics in this flameboard. You see many flames at people yet in those threads, do their whole linkshells get flamed?

Seriously guys. This is getting out of hand. "Oh. Because 1 person flamed BoL, I'm going to jump on the wagon and do it to because it's cool!". Reminds me of junior high and high school.

It sickens me to see that everyone I knew that was mature and civil suddenly dropped to immature and idiotic because 1 person wanted to flame BoL so they joined in on it.

[Mirewen, I'm using you as an example because I know you and you won't get pissed about it.]

What if Mirewen did something like mpk or rip someone off or leave a party to fend for themselves to get out of some dangerous place instead of D2ing them? I know Mire wouldn't do this but think about it. Would you guys really flame all of RevolutionaryESP over what MIREWEN did?

What if it was YOUR linkshell and someone came on and flamed the WHOLE linkshell because of the act of 1 person? You wouldn't be too happy. You'd be pretty pissed and you'd be saying the same thing. "Don't flame the whole linkshell because of 1 persons actions". What's the difference here?

I know a few linkshells that have had a few people in each do things wrong yet you see the flames toward the people who did it, not their linkshell. So where did this turning point come in to play? I have no doubt what so ever that people who have flamed someone hated their linkshell but did they bring the flame upon the whole linkshell? No.

Show all the proof you want about someone in the linkshell doing something wrong but unless 50% or more of the linkshell was there doing it, there's no reason to flame the linkshell because of that person.

 

[asiamise]

/sigh...

This is starting to get pathetic. The only reason you guys keep saying "all of BoL" is because the ones posting this don't like BoL.

[No offense to ANY members from the following linkshells. I'm using them as an example.]

If someone were to do something like this or the other post from NAFB or NH, you wouldn't see topics saying "NAFB/NH check your members" or hear flaming of those linkshells. Just those people.

Last I checked, this was the forum that was always saying "You're so immature" or "This is so childish" when someone would try this. What the heck happened? Did everyone on Quetzy suddenly take stupid pills? THIS is getting immature.

If you want to flame BoL, fine. Not like they haven't heard it all before but don't bring the whole damn LS in because of 1 person.

Syliph gets flamed. You don't see anyone bringing the whole linkshell down because of it. Same with Colbwa and WSM and everyone. Go back and look at 99.9% of the topics in this flameboard. You see many flames at people yet in those threads, do their whole linkshells get flamed?

Seriously guys. This is getting out of hand. "Oh. Because 1 person flamed BoL, I'm going to jump on the wagon and do it to because it's cool!". Reminds me of junior high and high school.

It sickens me to see that everyone I knew that was mature and civil suddenly dropped to immature and idiotic because 1 person wanted to flame BoL so they joined in on it.

[Mirewen, I'm using you as an example because I know you and you won't get pissed about it.]

What if Mirewen did something like mpk or rip someone off or leave a party to fend for themselves to get out of some dangerous place instead of D2ing them? I know Mire wouldn't do this but think about it. Would you guys really flame all of RevolutionaryESP over what MIREWEN did?

What if it was YOUR linkshell and someone came on and flamed the WHOLE linkshell because of the act of 1 person? You wouldn't be too happy. You'd be pretty pissed and you'd be saying the same thing. "Don't flame the whole linkshell because of 1 persons actions". What's the difference here?

I know a few linkshells that have had a few people in each do things wrong yet you see the flames toward the people who did it, not their linkshell. So where did this turning point come in to play? I have no doubt what so ever that people who have flamed someone hated their linkshell but did they bring the flame upon the whole linkshell? No.

Show all the proof you want about someone in the linkshell doing something wrong but unless 50% or more of the linkshell was there doing it, there's no reason to flame the linkshell because of that person.

Before someone gets all bent that I quoted the whole thing, relax, its worth quoting ^^

/clap Atr, well said.

I'd like to add that maybe if some of the shells that get flamed for their members actions had stricter recruitment rules, other than handing a pearl to anyone with sky access, a lot of these situations could be avoided.
The key to building a good shell is its people, I'm not saying that these shells are filled with bad people, quite contrary, Im friends with quite a few people in Quetzy's major shells, but obviously, time has proven that it only takes 1 bad egg to spoil the batch.

To make it short, I implore QCDN's members to not flame an entire shell for the actions of an individual member. My sympathies to BoL on this one, they may not have the greatest reputation out there, but they certainly did not deserve to be singled out for this.