Byrnie +1 vs. Haubergeon +1

[Xzerper]

Keep in mind, the events I do when playing SAM are as follows:

I don't HNM-keep that aspect in mind, but I do lots of Dynamis, Limbus and ZNM where able.

I know that the threads relate to Haub+1 being better for those SAMs with Haste Builds, fighting higher lvl mobs or more specific: all mobs. Where as you're stacking haste in several slots, while sacrificing possible Acc you MAY or MAY NOT need.

Keep in mind I have Bushi, and 8/8 GTK merits. Generally, I have read in threads that Haub is 'the best' more specifically because of the +12 acc and +6 DEX on it, making it a viable asset on SAMs with a good Haste Build.

Note again, many tell me its due to needing -some- sort of Acc since most SAM's I speak to Merit PT on Mamool, or HNM where as that acc may be needed more so than stacking alot of STR and attack in other slots, since acc won't be an issue.

I have Turban, Lacking Haidate currently, Swift Belt, Fuma's, and could add on Dusk Gloves if needed, but generally I use O-Kote till I have Haidate. Even then I am also debating if Dusk would be better in Hands slot than Okote, or Vise versa

With all this in mind, even tho I gear for the haste build SAM for TP, would Byrnie+1 be generally better due to the fact that I rarely do things that need that extra acc, and stack on a +25 attack piece instead? Keeping Osode for Possible WS piece, or what would be a better WS piece if Osode isn't really all that Viable?

Keep in Mind, You'll barely if ever miss at all(even eating meat) in Limbus and Dynamis, and specific ZNM with Bushi and 8/8 GTK merits.

Thanks. ^^

 

[Drychtnath]

First, the only time you should ever have an osode on your body is /thf, and honestly how many times does anyone go /thf anymore. Its really not useful for sam at all. Second, you'll generally want either hachiman kote or feet for a 6-hit build before you start stacking haste anywhere. And I highly doubt you'll hear anyone tell you byrnie is better than hauby. I suppose it would be ideal to have both, but since that isn't possible for most people, I'd say stick with a hauby. Any time you did need the extra acc you'd be kicking yourself.

 

[Bajaratt]

Hauby is usually the best body period, regardless of what type of build you're going for.

A Haste build usually gives the best overall damage, provided that you have enough accuracy with the haste gear. I'd go with dusk over the Ochiudo's kote, the 3% haste will be better if you're wearing the rest of your haste gear. Fuma's I wouldn't wear, since you'd be sacrificing a 6-hit build to wear them; and a 6-hit build is a much larger increase than 3% haste.

Byrnie might be better for weapon skills, since there's apparently a massive acc bonus to YGK; but for TPing I'd imagine that Hauby would win out.

You can try both and see how much of an accuracy difference you're seeing versus the per-hit damage difference.

 

[Arezael]

It's hard to comment with any real insight on your actual query given the information available, but let's consider what you have posted so far.

8/8 GKT merits and a Bushinomimi give you less than 20 Accuracy total (18.9 is the actual figure). The Walahra turban, O. kote and Fuma sune-ate/kyahan give none, whereas the Swift belt gives you 3 Accuracy. This gives you a running total so far of 21.9 Accuracy.

Regardless of whether or not the mobs you fight have low Evasion, Agility etc. this will be a figure you will want to improve on, and if not, at the very least not subtract from. The Byrnie +1 has Dex -3 as a feature, so in your given case caveat emptor.

 

[Xzerper]

]First, the only time you should ever have an osode on your body is /thf, and honestly how many times does anyone go /thf anymore. Its really not useful for sam at all.[/B] Second, you'll generally want either hachiman kote or feet for a 6-hit build before you start stacking haste anywhere.

First part bold: Why? The +10~12 attack and 5STR far more outweigh the dmg output osode would do given its 10STR?

I would assume maybe since STR gices a larder boost to attakc with 2 handers it'd might be generally better, I'd like to better understand that.

Other bold: Full time Kote or Feet, or just for WS piece only?(Still taking into effect we have Hagun, or a Hagun-Delay weapon.) Working on Hagun myself atm.

and a 6-hit build is a much larger increase than 3% haste.

I should of mentioned that in my post as well, off subject...what do I actually NEED gear-wise to hit a 6-hit build for SAM, both WS and TPing.(THis is considering I have 5/5 Store TP merits as well)

Regardless of whether or not the mobs you fight have low Evasion, Agility etc. this will be a figure you will want to improve on, and if not, at the very least not subtract from.

Well, until I get Byakko's haidate for my SAM, very few places to stick Acc. Unless You're thinking about 1 Acc ring(I personally use Juager if needed+Raja). Only other place to really improve acc-wise would be Neck. And I use Chiv Chain for that, since the Acc from Peacock Charm seems little excessive considering the mobs I generally fight have little to no evasion at all. So adding the extra STR, or possibly Ososhi+1(?) would be generally better I would think.

Brutal will be coming into the picture soon, but I intend to macro Bushi in for WS once I complete /DRG subjob, and use Wyvern Earring for TPing in.

Dynamis & Limbus mainly. Less its a THF mob using perfect Dodge, no real acc issues.

 

[Bladewind]

Are you eating sushi?

 

[Necrosis]

att doesn't matter as much on SAM due to the large pDIF/acc bonus yuki, etc. receive, thus osode is probably best.

can't beat the acc from hauby unless you have an acc relic.

I should of mentioned that in my post as well, off subject...what do I actually NEED gear-wise to hit a 6-hit build for SAM, both WS and TPing.(THis is considering I have 5/5 Store TP merits as well)

a piece of hacheyman and rajas.

 

[Drychtnath]

5/5 stp merits, hachiman feet or kote, and rajas is generally how you get 6 hit with a hagun. With hachi kote, rajas and merits you'll get 17 tp every hit, which will let you ws in whatever gear you want and still get 6 hit. I think i've read if you use hachi feet you have to ws in them to keep your 6hit, not 100% on this though.

 

[Xzerper]

Are you eating sushi?

Nope.

Necrosis: If I didn't have 5/5 Store TP merits, what would be the best possible gear setup possible to achieve the 6-hit build. I'd need +10 correct extra instead...

Mainly because the person who plays that account mainly, is more so a soloer and doesnt exp much, and Campaigns mostly, or Solo and farms...might decide to merit 5/5 Third Eye Recast down, thus removing the store TP merits.

 

[Auron X]

Nope.

Necrosis: If I didn't have 5/5 Store TP merits, what would be the best possible gear setup possible to achieve the 6-hit build. I'd need +10 correct extra instead...

Mainly because the person who plays that account mainly, is more so a soloer and doesnt exp much, and Campaigns mostly, or Solo and farms...might decide to merit 5/5 Third Eye Recast down, thus removing the store TP merits.

Please for the love of god don't merit 5/5 Third Eye Recast.

Most likely if you have the 5/5 STP merits you can equip the best gear possible while still maintaining a 6hit setup so that you can weaponskill even faster thus killing whatever you are soloing faster.

 

[Bajaratt]

Nope.

Necrosis: If I didn't have 5/5 Store TP merits, what would be the best possible gear setup possible to achieve the 6-hit build. I'd need +10 correct extra instead...

Mainly because the person who plays that account mainly, is more so a soloer and doesnt exp much, and Campaigns mostly, or Solo and farms...might decide to merit 5/5 Third Eye Recast down, thus removing the store TP merits.

From the Store TP thread:

Usual gear options to get that last +11 Store TP:
Raja's Ring (+5)
Brutal Earring(+1)/Chivalrous Chain (+1)
Usukane Feet(+7)/Hachiman Feet(+5)

Need +11 total, so one thing from each row.

I'd smack any moron who takes out store TP merits for third eye merits.

 

[Bladewind]

I'm sorry, but if you're not eating sushi i seriously doubt that your acc is capped even in situations like limbus. I'd suggest you actually parse it to find out and if i'm wrong, I'll be shocked.

I'm not implying there's anything wrong with sushi in certain situations, lets be honest even the best geared jobs struggle at times, and depending on gear sushi can up your damage more than meat.

 

[Lavi]

I'm sorry, but if you're not eating sushi i seriously doubt that your acc is capped even in situations like limbus. I'd suggest you actually parse it to find out and if i'm wrong, I'll be shocked.

I'm not implying there's anything wrong with sushi in certain situations, lets be honest even the best geared jobs struggle at times, and depending on gear sushi can up your damage more than meat.

Comparatively speaking, limbus mobs would generally con as Tough to at worst Very Tough. The only mobs that I can think of where there would be huge accuracy issues are Carby, Beastmen Bosses and perhaps the three kings (never done melee on them). Everything else that I can think of including Omega and Ultima really are not evasive for two handers.

 

[Makelith]

Pre-update if you had 8/8 merits you were pretty close to capped. Add on anything like the DM earring or sea torque and you need even less acc. 2Hers should have pretty close to capped acc full time now with even AH gear.

 

[Bladewind]

Pre-update if you had 8/8 merits you were pretty close to capped. Add on anything like the DM earring or sea torque and you need even less acc. 2Hers should have pretty close to capped acc full time now with even AH gear.

Is this in Limbus? i suppose i could see it happening there, but not Dynamis, even with capped GA merits and a total of ~400 acc on war (i think 391 was the exact figure but i don't remember,i've been modifying war set recently), i still tend to pop a plate of sushi for the last 30 mins of dynamis.

And while he said he doesn't do HNM, the higher tier ZNMs (which he does do) are the same level. Obviously it would be easier to tell if he posted what he uses in other gear slots (forgive me if this info was posted and i missed it) but he will not be anywhere close to 400 acc. which is the absolute minimum for a meat build IMO - and that's just for merit mobs.

But like i said, parse it, and prove me wrong.

 

[Xzerper]

I'm sorry, but if you're not eating sushi i seriously doubt that your acc is capped even in situations like limbus. I'd suggest you actually parse it to find out and if i'm wrong, I'll be shocked.

I'm not implying there's anything wrong with sushi in certain situations, lets be honest even the best geared jobs struggle at times, and depending on gear sushi can up your damage more than meat.

Not saying capped, saying not many problems. Unless you doing Apolloyon and are fighting Birds+Sinus, I don't see myself missing much unless it's Ultima.

Omega doesn't seem that evasive for this character as well, either.

Dynamis, I can melee the mobs with my staff on BLM and still hit, let alone acc problems there on a SAM with exceptionally better acc than I could hope to have on BLM. Less its a THF or NIN Mob. Of course I'd add -some- acc gear on BLM however. Just random other mobs. But even then...I still wont hit those mobs. Just the traditional Mage, and other random mobs.

But you're SAM and mos tlikely do alot of Iceland/Outland too. I dont use SAM in Iceland Areas either, just in Cities. I tend to be needed BLM every time there.

Second Bold: I'd put that into ZNM and HNM catagories ya? Even Gods. Less You're one of those SAM/THFs in Sky, maybe eating Meat with Usu gear could still hit, and just SA+WS for the DMG...Idk...havent used SAM in sky much. Nor do I have Usu gear to check it out.

ZNM: Never done anything past a Tier 3.

 

[Makelith]

Is this in Limbus?

Limbus mobs usually never con higher than vt. Even the HNMkings in limbus i could hit well with a meat build.

but not Dynamis, even with capped GA merits and a total of ~400 acc on war (i think 391 was the exact figure but i don't remember,i've been modifying war set recently), i still tend to pop a plate of sushi for the last 30 mins of dynamis.

Honestly, i've never actually parsed in dynamis. The only ones i would think about using sushi in though is dreamlands and maybe xarc before i got my M.Kris before i quit.

And while he said he doesn't do HNM, the higher tier ZNMs (which he does do) are the same level. Obviously it would be easier to tell if he posted what he uses in other gear slots (forgive me if this info was posted and i missed it) but he will not be anywhere close to 400 acc. which is the absolute minimum for a meat build IMO - and that's just for merit mobs.

I never got in to HNMs and i quit well before ZNMs came out so i can't really comment on that. Just having an A+ skill and 8/8 merits gives you 280some acc. As an elvaan Drk, postupdate, i would have gotten another 90 acc just from my dex. Already putting me at 370. I don't see how with even basic AH gear you aren't getting enough to eat meat.

But like i said, parse it, and prove me wrong.

I'd love to, except i am quite retired for a few more weeks.

 

[Bladewind]

The "parse it" was more directed at Xzerper than Make, i'll be honest though, my point is falling on deaf ears as long as it's only being eyeballed so i'll stop.

As a final point i wasn't implying i'd eat sushi at all times in dynamis, but i noticed mobs seem to get harder as you come to the end of a run, maybe i'm imagining it idk(or maybe there's more nin/thf mobs in the final pulls i can't say i noticed), but either way, for the last 30 mins i like to pop a plate of sushi instead of meat in most zones.

 

[Xzerper]

I don't parse, nor have a parser. I look to see how many times I am missing out of how many times I land a hit and base it on that. I'd like to hit 7/10 preferred. Not always like that, but if I am wiffing left and right I'll add acc to compensate for it.

 

[Arezael]

Without any form of prejudice or intent to offend you will need to accept the fact that not everyone has the best gear, and while you may want to think otherwise, your setup cannot be described as anything other than substandard.

Consider, without straying into the difficult to obtain list, the items you are lacking:
A Hagun, Byakko's haidate, Dusk gloves/+1 (it is unclear whether you have them or don't use them at this point), Usukane sune-ate, Haubergeon/+1 (again unclear), a decent neck piece, a decent ring to pair with Raja's ring, a Brutal earring. What you use for the Ranged, Ammo or Back slots hasn't been stated, and neither has the Weapon you actually use, along with the Sub slot.

I can easily envisage how you could achieve capped Accuracy in those events you specified without the above items, but that doesn't equate to a satisfactory TP build. I feel you may have focused on the wrong criteria when looking at what you need to improve.