Calling all dragoons

M

Mathias

Sub Job Unlocked
Adventurer
Joined
Apr 29, 2005
Messages
27
HI ^^
It is obvious and apparent that drg has taken the long end of the shaft when it comes to abilities/pet commands. So, I was wondering if i could get enough of us to email SE via email (it's in navigator under service and support) I don't want us to become the most powerful job, just that being a dragoon is being a master of your wyvern. And so far we can only tell it to come and go. Also, in every FF besides this one the jumps did way more damage then a regular hit! So please, voice your opinions! I've always been a fan of dragon form^^ (Hey, if cyranuce can do it why can't we? lol)
 
It's been tried before, it's not going to work. :(
 
There is nothing wrong with Drg. It's just that public opinion has been skewed because of misinformation and poor Drg players.
 
The only thing I think would be nice it to have control over special attacks like with a summoned creature. Like a critical hit once enough Tp is built. Something to that effect.
 
DRG isn't bad or anything, it just has a tarnished reputation. That's not something that S-E can fix.
 
Ya know I dont think its the skills or the wyvern stuff that frustrates me about what DRG has, its the lack of DRG equipment that kinda gets to me, it kinda gets the leftovers in the equipment area. Also what people think about drg drives me up the wall. But oh well I guess, there loss, plus I get alot of readin done while waitin on a pt.

(War and peace is a good one I think for drg pt waitin)
 
There isn't anything wrong with it, it's just that we aren't a sought after job. Compared to other jobs, we have very little traits, and we are the only job that has only 1 pet command. I think we deserve a little more is all... I can out-damage most DD, except mnk, OMG! Anyhow, I'm not complaining really. I'm just encouraging Drg's to submit ideas to SE.
 
Well, there's really not much of anything wrong with DRG. If they could give more commands to their wyvern, it'd be nice, though.

There's only two things that I think SE should change about DRG: let them wear chainmail armor (including RK set and haubergeon - not hauberk or thick set, though), and maybe boost damage from Wheeling Thrust, as I've heard it's rather weak for that level of WSs.

It really makes no sense that DRG can't wear chainmail, when they're a heavy DD job (or at least, they're supposed to be).

Before you start saying it'll make DRG too powerful, let me point out that there are only 8 melee DD-able jobs, including BST (which doesn't really matter for balance issues, as they mainly solo) and RNG (which isn't really a "melee" DD, but it doesn't really matter). Of them, four - DRK, WAR, BST, and SAM - can wear chainmail. That leaves RNG, MNK, DRG, and THF. RNG and MNK are both already very powerful DDs even without chainmail armor, and THF's main party role isn't damage as much as hate control. That leaves DRG with nothing but AF or the incredibly expensive scorpion harness once you reach the 60's. I don't really think that letting DRG wear a haubergeon is a problem, since the only time DRGs really could be considered "weak" is in the later levels.
 
Note that this is coming from someone with little to no firsthand experience with DRG.

My problems with DRG as a class are as such:

1) The wyvern. Helpful in so many ways but a liability more often than not. In the general PTing leveling track, from 10-75 you're fighting mobs that stand to cripple or kill the wyvern for about 40 of those 65 levels. Wyvern breaths seem totally random without the AF Head, and that really only gets used until O.Hat or Barone at 70 (though I suppose it could get macro'd in for the SC, if the wyvern's even out.) My last few Sky PTs with DRGs, they haven't even tried to keep the pet out, too many AoE stun/dmg effects.

2) The AF. Good for looks and that's about it, on paper at least. Most of the Wyvern+ effects are moot, because the wyvern isn't living long enough for you to use them. The bonuses given to the player itself are also pretty poor in comparison to other jobs, but at least the feet are kinda nice.

3) Other body pieces 60+. A lot of DRG's I've talked to have said "Well, we don't NEED a Scorpion Harness, we already get a natural +10 accuracy." This is true. However, considering the other melee jobs, they either have:

- A piece they can wear that gives them +10 accuracy (SAM, DRK)
- An ability that gives them +accuracy (MNK)
- Both (WAR)

Not to mention that on top of the +accuracy of Hauby, the other jobs are getting +attack, +STR, and +DEX. They close the gap on accuracy while widening it on the other stats. In a post-sushi world this is somewhat moot, but every little bit helps when you're swinging a slow weapon.

Accuracy > Attack > STR > DEX. Just about always. I hate that DRG guides are still telling new DRGs to get DEX rings and saying things like Sniper's and Scorpion Harness are luxuries. I also disagree with those that say Assault Jerkin is the be all end all for DRG's (I'd rank Harness and maybe Corazza over it.)

4) No XP-useful JA's inherent to the job. Unless you're fighting Ladons at 72, I guess. Again, looking at the other melee jobs a DRG is competing with:

MNK gets Dodge/Focus/Chi Blast/Counterstance.
WAR gets Berserk/Defender/Warcry/Aggressor
SAM gets Third Eye/Meditate
DRK gets Souleater/Last Resort/Weapon Bash
DRG gets... Jump?

Outside of their sub, DRGs have no way to boost accuracy, attack, or TP. I guess you can consider Spirit Link 'useful' since it helps prolong the wyvern, and the jumps DO build TP (if they connect) and they CAN shed hate if needed with Super Jump, but aside from getting TAd onto I haven't seen many DRGs pull hate from the tank.

5) The skillchain dilemma. DRGs (normally) most powerful WS, Penta Thrust, is in an awful spot on the SC chart, so it doesn't go into most SC's. Even with the 5 hits, it's pretty inaccurate from what I've seen and only has a 0.75 modifier on damage at 100% TP (Raging Fists and Rampage both have 1.00 or higher, iirc.) The skill got nerfed so badly when TP gain was restricted and I've seen Double Thrust outdamage it in XP parties.

Which leads me to the other problem: The wyvern's breath can burst, but when is a DRG ever closing a SC? Most of their career they're opening either Distortion, Light, or Darkness, and in a lot of cases a party can find a better WS from a different job to open either (RNGs/post-60MNKs for Distortion, RNG/WAR/SAM for Light, MNK for Darkness.) They can also close Fragmentation (with an awful WS), Gravitation (Who uses this? Maybe vs. Toramas?) and Fusion (Which, again, has a lot of closers, many of which are strictly better.)

6) No ranged weapon. Pebbles don't count. Sure, they can pull with Jump, but that requires very close range and they'll likely come back from the pull in the yellow, at least. Give 'em a boomerang or something, jeez.

This isn't meant to bash the DRG job in a 'ZOMG NEVAR INVITE' kind of way. I think these are legit problems that Square should take into account and consider resolving before they throw any new jobs into the mix. DRG was always a fun job, and the people who play it seem to have fun. It's time they got a bit more of a helping hand.
 
Sethala said:
and maybe boost damage from Wheeling Thrust, as I've heard it's rather weak for that level of WSs.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, but Wheeling Thrust actually used to be weaker than it is now.
 
Giving too many new things might be a bit confusing and hard to implant, I say letting drgs equip the haubs would be great.

As far as their WSs go, I really don't have a big problem with them although I surely wouldn't be up in arms if dragoon got another buff to their wheeling thurst, and maybe even impulsive drive. As least the SCs they open are ideal SCs

Distortion SCs they open 3-65

They open light SC for all the worthwhile light SC closers: Thief, Drk, and monk. And whms in non xp parties.

They open dark SC for all the "worthwhile" WSs, like Tachi: Gekko, cross reaper, spiral hell, and ground strike.

They're a great opener, either buffing the WSs a little bit more or giving them chain armor which in turn buffs normal attacks AND their WSs would be all they ever really need. I'm pretty sure str is a major WS modifer on the polearm WSs, so that 10 attack and 5 str would make a noticable, although not huge difference.

And as far as their DoT between them and the wyvren, well in my static I've had absolutely no problem with the numbers our dragoon and wyvren have been pulling out. But once again, I fully support dragoon getting access to chain armor to give them a hand so they don't fall as far behind in the attk/str departments at higher levels.
 
I personally think the entire problem with Drg is reputation. For instance, I was in Crawler's Nest as a thief and we had a drg and myself doing distortion skillchain. I think it was Double Thrust to Viper Bite (cannot remember exactly) and everytime it came for the SC the drg had more TP than me. You could argue maybe I was gimped or what not, but I had sniper rings and ate sushi, so accuracy was not a huge problem. She hit for well more than anyone else and didn't have huge accuracy problems. Finally towards the end of the night, we began to replace people as some began to leave the party and there had been a ranger replacing someone and the drg had to leave shortly after as it was very late in Japan. As soon as the drg left the party, the ranger said this "God finally that sucky drg is gone." She never missed a SC, did her job dealing a lot of damage, what else more was she supposed to do? The answer: Nothing. People will always think the job is gimped as long as its not an in-demand job. Oh and I bet anything if you sparsed the data from the experience party the drg would be about equal with the ranger.
 
As soon as the drg left the party, the ranger said this "God finally that sucky drg is gone." She never missed a SC, did her job dealing a lot of damage, what else more was she supposed to do? The answer: Nothing. People will always think the job is gimped as long as its not an in-demand job. Oh and I bet anything if you sparsed the data from the experience party the drg would be about equal with the ranger.
Click to expand...

Not too surprising, for the fact dragoons and rangers compete for the same DD spot and SC slot in parties.

In my static which is now 51-53, the melees DDs are a drk and drg. Pre 50 the dragoon was hands down the top DD, and they both had snipers, access to me ( the bard ) and HQ weapons, LL, hairpins and later attack+ masks. So due to the nature of the job dragoon is actually considerable of a tier 1 DD pre 50.

50 rolled around and it's pretty even now, or you could say one of them has a minor advantage. Attack bonus III is making it pretty even, and depending on the enemy, their damage per hit seems to be either equal or advantage to the darkknight, of course this is excluding the wyvren and lower delay of the polearm-thus more hits-more damage.

I think the advantage or closeness might be disrupted at 59 from the haub, although due to the lower delays and wyvren it'll be very close, come 60 and 66 though, it's going to tip the scales. Unless me or the dragoon gets a scorpion harness( I'm thief so if I can get one we're good friends and he can borrow it ) he'll have to possiblely resort to acc food.

If we can get a scorpion harness and he has all other equal acc gear, between his jumps and acc up trait and me a bard, I think we can keep him on attack food thus making everything balanced between the drk and drg.

So maybe the advantage of drg is they don't have to resort to sushi and can use attack food when properly equipped , I don't know, but that's what I'm going to ask to try when we eventually get there. Maybe what I put in the bold requires a drg until the mid 70s, but when we finally get there, we can experiment and stuff.

No matter what the drk is going to gain huge on WS and normal hits though :D
 
Jagster said:
So maybe the advantage of drg is they don't have to resort to sushi and can use attack food when properly equipped
Click to expand...

I don't think so. A +10 passive Accuracy trait in a world where Sushi is giving +22 accuracy at level 50 and +37 at level 70 is going to put the DRG way behind in TP gain if they're eating meat while the other DDs are eating Sushi.

Outside of Rangers I can't think of a single good reason for a melee DD not to eat Sushi in XP parties from 35 or so to 75. None.
 
I don't think so. A +10 passive Accuracy trait in a world where Sushi is giving +22 accuracy at level 50 and +37 at level 70 is going to put the DRG way behind in TP gain if they're eating meat while the other DDs are eating Sushi.
Click to expand...

This is true to a degree. But towards the endgame of xping, most of the enemies are said to be VT-lower end incs, which should be taken into account for those levels. 57-lower 70s would be the more debatable area I suppose then.

But what do you think of Sword magridal + acc trait+SH,snipers, and all other smaller acc givers? That right there should be more than any sushi would ever give.

Offtopic, how are these people figuring out exactly how much acc the sushi foods give anyway?
 
Outside of Rangers I can't think of a single good reason for a melee DD not to eat Sushi in XP parties from 35 or so to 75. None.
Click to expand...

There are some melee from snipers to lifebelt+other lesser items until toramas that can have 85-90% acc without sushi, namely dragoons,wars, and monks due to armor access and/or job abilities assuming they're well equipped. I'll also say a thief with that + 10-13 acc and later on 20-23 and their dex and dex+ are fine without sushi 40-60 as well.

And with a bard thrown into the mix, this is a non issue completely pre 60 for any melee, which I can also say from experience.

So there are definitely exceptions to the ranger, varying on level range however.
 
Grab all the +acc gear you can hold and equip your normal weapon, then go find a mob that cons as normal evasion when you've got max +accuracy. Un-equip it bit by bit until you find out exactly how much +accuracy you need to make the change from high evasion to normal. Un-equip everything, eat sushi, and then find the right number for +accuracy to change to normal evasion again. The difference between the numbers is how much accuracy the food gave.

So, if I need to have +32 Accuracy in gear to make mob X con as normal evasion instead of high before I eat sushi, and after I only need +5 Accuracy in gear to make that change, I know that the sushi gave me 27 Accuracy (32 - 5 = 27).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top