can we say /goodbye sky and hnm

/NIN is going to become more and more of a standard... I already /NIN a lot on my SAM, accepting the lowered damage output so that I don't DIE HORRIBLY every 30 minutes and become a general hinderance to the party. Had to do that with MNK, and no doubt even a DRG wearing a full set of Ares would have to sub NIN due to obscene hate output (assuming, of course, the NIN isn't wearing Usukane or the PLD Ares)

As gear gets better able to compensate for /WAR's perks (Brutal Earring, attack gear, meat, bards), the subjob has less and less of an advantage, and /NIN becomes more and more useful.
 
Mai Ikari said:
/NIN is going to become more and more of a standard... I already /NIN a lot on my SAM, accepting the lowered damage output so that I don't DIE HORRIBLY every 30 minutes and become a general hinderance to the party. Had to do that with MNK, and no doubt even a DRG wearing a full set of Ares would have to sub NIN due to obscene hate output (assuming, of course, the NIN isn't wearing Usukane or the PLD Ares)

As gear gets better able to compensate for /WAR's perks (Brutal Earring, attack gear, meat, bards), the subjob has less and less of an advantage, and /NIN becomes more and more useful.
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Well even with new gear /WAR is forever more damage output. For MNK, SAM, DRG the only added bonus to /NIN is utsu. Whereas the WAR, THF, DRKs can take advantage of the dual wield ability as well. Might put more of a rift between jobs when you're looking to build a party becuase while being survivable is important, hindering damage also is. That's the reason that we saw a lot of WAR/MNK/NIN only parties in ToAU and in TP burns in general. Maybe I'll just be the oddball going back to /THF and giving my hate to Ikari all the time. ^^

Hey, wasn't SE saying they wanted to ween people off of /NIN and dual wield anyways? I wonder if that went out the window. =P
 
Gregedor said:
Well even with new gear /WAR is forever more damage output. For MNK, SAM, DRG the only added bonus to /NIN is utsu. Whereas the WAR, THF, DRKs can take advantage of the dual wield ability as well. Might put more of a rift between jobs when you're looking to build a party becuase while being survivable is important, hindering damage also is. That's the reason that we saw a lot of WAR/MNK/NIN only parties in ToAU and in TP burns in general. Maybe I'll just be the oddball going back to /THF and giving my hate to Ikari all the time. ^^

Hey, wasn't SE saying they wanted to ween people off of /NIN and dual wield anyways? I wonder if that went out the window. =P
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Might sound weird but you seen DRG/NIN Dualing swords? I did once and was scary how good they were.
 
delsus said:
Might sound weird but you seen DRG/NIN Dualing swords? I did once and was scary how good they were.
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They cannot use Vorpal Blade or Savage Blade like that and is stuck in the lolFast Blade or wait for 300% Spirits Within. SAM is in the same boat. DRG also has a C- skill which any way you face it sucks compared to a A+ polearm.
 
Unless the "Enhance Haste Effect" is equivalent to 20% haste or more I don't see the Usugane armor replacing my current gear for NIN in MeritPT. It will however be more situational gear. Haste is where it's at for NIN and frankly this new gear doesn't have enough of it. Let's examine further...


Usukane Somen
DEF:20 STR+3 AGI+3 ACC+7 EVA+7 Haste+3%

For TP: Probably better damage then Walahra Turban over time, but for someone with capped Accuracy already in Merit PT I'm not sure I have the inventory room to carry this piece around all the time. I would have to be swapping in Walahra for Utsusemi anyways. Would really have to test it out, and SE needs to give us more Inventory space.

For WS: Shura Kabuto is better (+5 STR and +5 ACC).


Usukane Haramaki
DEF:40 STR+8 DEX+8 INT+8 ACC+12 EVA+12 "Store TP"+6

For TP: Does this piece finally dethrone Koga Chainmail (+12 Acc, +16 Atk). I think so and probably by a decent amount, but it's not something that by itself will set two NIN's apart by much.

For WS: I don't think so. Haubergeon +1 has 2 less STR and DEX but 11 more ATK. And Attack means quite a bit on your WS's in Merit PT. However you might bring this piece along for WS's on HNMs and such.


Usukane Gote
DEF:20 ACC+10 EVA+10 "Subtle Blow"+5 "Counter"+2

For TP: Dusk Gloves and Koga Tekko will blow these away in a Merit PT. The only time I would use these is on mobs that you don't want to give TP too and possible need more accuracy/evasion on.

For WS: Simply no. Koga Tekko and Bandomousha Kote will outperform these, the only NIN that would use these is someone that doesn't have much accuracy in other places for their Jin's to be returning max TP a majority of the time.


Usukane Hizayoroi
DEF:30 STR+5 DEX+5 ATT+10 Haste+3%

For TP: I don't think these are a replacement for Byakko's Haidate. They are a viable substitute and may raise your damage per hit a little but over time I think the large increase in DEX (Acc and Crits) and extra Haste on Byakko's will outperform.

For WS: Has the potential to outperform Byakko's Haidate for Jin's. But not by a lot. Will be a good piece for HNM's though as STR becomes a lot more important on mobs of very high level.


Usukane Sune-Ate
DEF:22 ACC+7 ATT+7 "Store TP"+7 Haste+2% Enmity+5

For TP: I think this will definitely replace Fuma Sune-Ate, you only lose 1% haste overall and the other stats are hard to say no too as a NIN.

For WS: Maybe for some, but for most I think people will stick with Rutter Sabatons or Marine M Boots.


Dynamis gear for NIN aside from Koga Chainmail/Koga Tekko is all situational, used for boosting Ninjutsu Skill (Feet) or Damage (Head) and for HP Builds (Legs). Basically all this new gear will do to Ninja's is make Koga Chainmail not the cream of the crop anymore for TP Build. And as far as Sky is involved, the only piece NIN's ever really need from sky is still the best piece (Haidate).
 
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Decidence good post i wish i could rate up but for some resson i can't i will when i can next :D
 
decidence said:
Unless the "Enhance Haste Effect" is equivalent to 20% haste or more I don't see the Usugane armor replacing my current gear for NIN in MeritPT. It will however be more situational gear. Haste is where it's at for NIN and frankly this new gear doesn't have enough of it. Let's examine further...
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You only lost 2% head, 3% hands, 2% legs and 1% feet for 8%. If this set gave 10% I'd think the score is settled in terms of raw haste. 20% is highly doubtful anyways.

The main frustration I think most people have is with the hands. 10 acc is a lot, but most people have the o.kote, b.kote for 20+ atk and skip acc in that slot. And you cannot get 20+ atk on many other items.
 
Walahra Turban: 5%
Dusk Gloves/Koga Tekko: 3-4%
Byakko's Haidate: 5%
Fuma Sune-Ate: 3%

For

Usukane Somen: 3%
Usukane Gote: 0%
Usukane Hizayoroi: 3%
Usukane Sune-Ate: 2%

So your losing 8-9%

And knowing SE the Enhance Haste will give 2-5% added haste (would be suprised if it was over 5%). And on top of that if you wear all 5 pieces you are much worse off then mixing it up with other gear that give better stats (Hands is the best example). And who knows if the enhance haste will actually stack with Haste to lower recast of Ninjutsu or not. Anyways, even in the best case scenario, we simply don't have enough Inventory room to keep all this gear on us all the time to have the proper swaps available in the right situations.
 
A few pieces will definitely find their way into the gear setups for those without haidate or Haubergeon +1/Koga Chainmail.

I can't see not using the Feet or the Body. Looking at a few pieces together mixed with some older gear you'll end up with more attk and acc at the loss of about 2-3% haste. Acceptable in my eyes.
 
I do agree with most that some people are getting far too carried away buying the upgrade items off the AH so quickly thinking all this gear will be in any way easy to obtain.
 
Supposedly someone's running around the the Usugane body already? It's a he said she said thing. So don't hold me to it.

Edit: It was a he said she said type of thing. so... don't believe me. Thanks Mai.
 
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I suspect what happened is that somebody saw somebody running around in the lower-teir armor (assuming they look the same, dunno) and thought it was Usukane. There's a thread on KI MNK boards with it, guy promised pics but never posted.
 
dedalius said:
It's not supposed to be many. If everyone had the best there would be no status in it. SE isn't dumb, salvage isn't going to instantly let people get shit.

Stop asking for stuff on a platter and earn your own gear.
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Blah blah just did Salvage with 15 people, got 3 drops :

2 nemyos's leggings (pld,drk,war) and 1 Nemain's sabots(rdm/blu/blm). Things do drops.
 
15 people x 15 drops per gear set at 3 drops per run = how many runs?
 
Courtney said:
15 people x 15 drops per gear set at 3 drops per run = how many runs?
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The run I was on got either 4 or 5 drops, and we didn't even get to the 4th floor.

We might have had a Thief though.
 
delsus said:
Do not do Vtra etc as over packed so we head to sky when every one else is camping it.
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Vrtra is camped while sky is not? What the hell kindof bizarro server do you PLAY on?

Ares' doesn't win when it comes to vit in comparison to MBody, but it gives a whopping 22str difference from it, and the hp/mp it gives will amount to 45hp/10mp average (so it's not that much worse in that category, either) on top of 25att and Refresh effect...I'd say it does size up to MBody very well, to say the least.
 
Skaw said:
The run I was on got either 4 or 5 drops, and we didn't even get to the 4th floor.

We might have had a Thief though.
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We gave our thf the first hands and weapon that dropped so he could TH4 whore us.
 
A note about delsus's boner about nin's: I've out-tanked every nin (except genjuro back before I got a lot of gear upgrades) in my ls as pld/nin. And they're pretty damn well geared and skilled.

Anyways, the nin/mnk/sam feet look great for HNM tanking and would probably do a little better than fumas for TPing, but not a huge upgrade. The body also looks pretty good as Decidence said.

The Ares body looks really good for paladin. With the way things are tanked now (/nin), the vit loss from M Body wouldn't be noticeable, the HP would be almost the same, but the refresh really seals the deal for me. That's up to 3mp/tick auto-refresh and 6mp/tick with refresh or ballads. The enmity loss might hurt, but the extra MP would probably make up for it.

Some of the pieces look sub-par, others seem more situational than all around pieces like some of the god/king gear (zenith hands for blms, byakko's haidate for anyone, defending ring for tanks, ridill for wars or drks, etc.). These are definitely upgrade items for people who have been grinding/perfecting their gear for a while, not someone fresh off the exp grind.

And weren't people talking about Candlejack earl
 
monks and nins didnt need huge gear upgrade since they get all the good stuffs out of sky....

If things drop like yesterday then its limbus-like drop rate and the hard part will be to get upgrade materials, but, now, everyone can do it.
 
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