Child murder case shocks NZ court

Rorschach said:
Yeah, but not everyone is willing to hire a convicted felon. So great they have all this training, yet no way to get work with it. So what happens most of the time? You guessed it, they do some stupid crap that lands them RIGHT back in jail. Why not just use that money to fund centers in lower income areas to help people get jobs like mechanics/plumbers/welders/electricians/carpenters and not have them rot away trying to make it big "or die tryin'" like so much of the wasted youth today.
Click to expand...

First time offenders sure, career criminals.. hells no.
 
Mirewen said:
What does that have anything to do with what happened or what I said? I said they would only feel remorse for what they did because it effected THEM. How many times do i need to say that? I never said they would never have feelings of remorse when it came to themselves. Asking me if I'd rather die or live in jail forever has absolutely nothing to do with the subject... and I find it absurd that you would even ask that question.

I have a degree in Psychology, I'm fully away of psychological (not psychic... as you put) damage and anxiety that they will feel in prison. They deserve to be miserable for the rest of their lives. They are scum.

Edit: (going to add this)

The justice system does not see living in jail for the rest of one’s life as more of a punishment. They believe that the maximum punishment is to be put to death. In many cases of “life imprisonment” the criminal does get out of prison (yes, it might be about 20-25 years later but they still get out). They do not take into consideration that the tax payers are paying millions of dollars to keep these degenerates in jail and would rather they be gassed or electrocuted to death.
Click to expand...
I said physical because stress does affect the body physically too. You're more prone to get sick, you'll feel more tired, etc. And also becaise I can imagine they won't be treated well in prison.

The second reason was that I can't imagine they will be treated well in prison.

Now, the reason I asked you this, is because, in my opinion, death sentence is the most humane sentence you can give a person who have murdered someone. And while they might feel remorse over themselves for getting in prison, if they don't have a psychological defect (which, if they did, would probably have been mentioned in the article, and would probably have lowered the punishment), they will feel remorse eventually, for the criem they did as well, and not only for being in the position they're in.

Either way, a death sentence wouldn't, for one, give them a chance to even feel remorse over what they did, which a life sentence in jail would.

Believe it or not, a death penalty is actually very expensive. Moreso then keeping a prisoner in jail for his entire life. Soem cases cost a smuch as 10.9 million dollar, due to the complicated judicial process involved. In California, if all the prisoners that is currently on death row would have been put on life sentence instead, the state of California would save aproximtely 4 billion dollars.

Really, what are you talking about wasting money on keeping them alive and in jail? One might think it would be as easy as shoot them once in the head, or just electrocute them or gas them to death, but it is much more complicated then that. The California death penalty system costs the taxpayers $114 million per year beyond the cost of keeping them locked up for life, and this figure does not include the extra court costs for post-conviction hearings in state and federal courts, which is estimated to exceed several million dollars.
 
Last edited:
You actually said "psychic". And California isn't everywhere. I'm sure the parents of murdered children would much rather pay to have their murderers put to death than fed and clothed while watching cable TV and earning educations.
 
Uzor said:
The reason I asked you this, is because, in my opinion, death sentence is the most humane sentence you can give a person who have murdered someone.
Click to expand...

So why is it that if a man who finds out his wife is cheating on him, then goes to get a gun. Learns of where they go to cheat, walks in and shoots them... gets life in prison. But people (although not in this case for some reason) who spend weeks, even months abusing and finally murdering a child is usually put to death because it's seen as more monstrous a crime.

In your opinion it's better to put the man who shot his wife and her lover to death and keep the child murderers alive?
 
Mirewen said:
You actually said "psychic". And California isn't everywhere. I'm sure the parents of murdered children would much rather pay to have their murderers put to death than fed and clothed while watching cable TV and earning educations.
Click to expand...

Probably shouldn't be speaking for a very unfortunate group of people about what they would want.

And how exactly are they going to get a free education? You're going to have to explain that one... That's aside from the fact I doubt half those inmates give a shit about an education.
 
... I never said "they" were (in the case of the OP). I said inmates do. They aren't forced an eduacation, they are offered it. For the love of God, read what people post.
 
Mirewen said:
... I never said "they" were (in the case of the OP). I said inmates do. They aren't forced an eduacation, they are offered it. For the love of God, read what people post.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is exactly what I'm asking. How does an inmate get a free education? If I understand what you are saying, you response is far from clear.
 
No it is perfectly clear. In many prisons across Canada and America, inmates are offered a free education (usually either GED or a trade). How is that not clear?
 
Last edited:
Mirewen said:
Yes. And in many prisons, they get a free trade education as well. Something that people who haven't committed crimes have to pay quite a bit of money for.
Click to expand...

Here's me quoting what I already said.
 
Ryuoho said:
Probably shouldn't be speaking for a very unfortunate group of people about what they would want.

And how exactly are they going to get a free education? You're going to have to explain that one... That's aside from the fact I doubt half those inmates give a shit about an education.
Click to expand...

Ryu they DO get free education here. Continuing Education courses, college equivalents. In Canada, I don't know if that's the case in the US. They DO get free cable and quite a few amenities that I'm sure if were up to the general public, the tax payers that are paying for these criminals to be held, they would not have access to such benefits and luxuries.
 
Mirewen said:
No it is perfectly clear. In many prisons across Canada and American, inmates are offered a free education (usually either GED or a trade). How is that not clear?
Click to expand...

Because I asked "How" and you kept repeating yourself.
So I wiki'd it, and it looks like we're talking about very minor skills, things that anyone else would learn in High School shop class or w/e. Do you have any specific knowledge about it or do you want to keep raging about the concept?
 
Ryuoho said:
Because I asked "How" and you kept repeating yourself.
So I wiki'd it, and it looks like we're talking about very minor skills, things that anyone else would learn in High School shop class or w/e. Do you have any specific knowledge about it or do you want to keep raging about the concept?
Click to expand...

...How is that they are offered and/or can submit for it. You know, by the government. It's not that hard to understand. Im not "raging", I'm posting a fact that (up until now) I thought was common knowledge.

And yes, my step father's best friend (Robert Latimer) learned a trade while he was in prison. I have also gone to prisons while getting my degree. My knowledge is first hand. I don't need Wiki for this, I have life experience.
 
Mirewen said:
...How is that they are offered and/or can submit for it. You know, by the government. It's not that hard to understand. Im not "raging", I'm posting a fact that (up until now) I thought was common knowledge.

And yes, my step father's best friend (Robert Latimer) learned a trade while he was in prison. I have also gone to prisons while getting my degree. My knowledge is first hand. I don't need Wiki for this, I have life experience.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that's more of what I was asking. It still doesn't look like a bad idea offering someone a second chance.
 
We aren't condemning second chances per se. We're saying that in a horrific crime, to be given more advantages than many people outside of prison, people who can't persue their dreams because it costs too much... is just wrong.

I know it would be nice to see inmates serve their community better by having skills once they get out, it's just a shame that (in some cases) there's almost an advantage to it. Hold up a bank with a weapon, go to jail for a couple years and walk out with a trade skill that would have cost you quite a bit of money. Yea, you will have a harder time finding a job, but a lot of trade skills are in high demand and they outweigh the prison term.
 
Ryuoho said:
Thank you, that's more of what I was asking. It still doesn't look like a bad idea offering someone a second chance.
Click to expand...

The point is, when people who didn't fuck up their first chance can't afford it, it seems a bit ridiculous.
 
Mirewen said:
So why is it that if a man who finds out his wife is cheating on him, then goes to get a gun. Learns of where they go to cheat, walks in and shoots them... gets life in prison. But people (although not in this case for some reason) who spend weeks, even months abusing and finally murdering a child is usually put to death because it's seen as more monstrous a crime.

In your opinion it's better to put the man who shot his wife and her lover to death and keep the child murderers alive?
Click to expand...
Because the people that DO hand out the punishments go with their feelings. They are humans, and thus have feelings. Like you, and many others have shown in here, an event like this raises feelings, which has a tendency to cloud your judgement.

You think its disgusting and monstrous, and think he deserves everything that's coming for him. That he would be better off dead so he can not do anything like that ever again. And the following is not an insult: You're a woman. Once again, I don't mean that in an offensive way. Women have better empathy, especially when it comes to children and infants. Even though its not their own child, they can sypathize how it would feel to have that doen to their child.

While you might think death penalty is the harshest punishment, I say it is the most humane. It isn't a real punishment. They get a priest so they can confess and talk to him, they get a least meal, and then they're put out of their missery. They don't have to really pay for their crimes anymore. By the time they got caught doing something as bad to earn them tht punishment, their lives were pretty much already over. They would have no chance to come back in to society and live a productive life, and if they didn't get a death sentence they would be in jail for their entire life, learning thigns that most likely will never be put to use in practice anyway.

Morcheeba said:
Ryu they DO get free education here. Continuing Education courses, college equivalents. In Canada, I don't know if that's the case in the US. They DO get free cable and quite a few amenities that I'm sure if were up to the general public, the tax payers that are paying for these criminals to be held, they would not have access to such benefits and luxuries.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons they are put in jail is to punish them for what they did. Another is to keep them away from public, while the third is to try and get them to change. Prisoners that are addicted to drugs get offered treatments to overcome their drug addiction, and that is also why they are offered education. To give them a chance to start their lives anew and becoem a productive member of society. Jail isn't simply there to keep them away from the general public for most prisoners, it is there as a kind of rehabilitation center.

The problem is, that most people in the world view prisoners as something evil and bad. That they can not and will not ever change. Once a prisoner, always a prisoner. By not giving them a chance to prove that they have changed, and by makign them outcasts, they once again fall back in to their old habits. It isn't only their own fault, it is also the fault of those that refuse to give them a second chance.
 
Uzor said:
You're a woman.
Click to expand...

And just discredited yourself. Both sexes have had the same opinions on both sides. Both think they should rot in jail and both think they should die. No ones judgement is clouded, both opinions have been stated.
 
You didn't get my point at all, did you? Exactly where did I discredit myself by stating you're a woman and that you have stronger empathic feelings?
 
Uzor said:
You didn't get my point at all, did you? Exactly where did I discredit myself by stating you're a woman and that you have stronger empathic feelings?
Click to expand...

Because that's a bunch of bs, if she were some emotional idiot she'd be arguing on your side of the fence. She would be feeling sorry for the prisoners instead of saying they should rot without the excessive benefits they receive. Being a woman does not necessarily make you more emotional or empathetic.

I can't believe you have to ask why that would discredit you...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top