Child murder case shocks NZ court

Uzor said:
Just because a death ISN'T accidental doesn't mean you can't feel remorse.

And I suppose I am the devil's advocate. But apparently others are incapable of seeing past their own opinions and feelings.
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In extreme cases like this, the perpetrators feelings/reasons don't matter. That shit is inexcusable.
 
Uzor said:
Just because a death ISN'T accidental doesn't mean you can't feel remorse.

And I suppose I am the devil's advocate. But apparently others are incapable of seeing past their own opinions and feelings.
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I agree with what you said here Uzor, but you have to understand. In extreme cases like this, oftentimes there is no remorse because there is no feeling. Anyone with a real conscience would be unable to commit the acts that were brought upon this child. I find it highly unlikely that normal, thinking and feeling person perpetrated these monstrocities on an innocent child smiply because they were taking "revenge" for the abuse they suffered as a child.
 
Uzor said:
Just because a death ISN'T accidental doesn't mean you can't feel remorse.

And I suppose I am the devil's advocate. But apparently others are incapable of seeing past their own opinions and feelings.
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I never said they will never feel remorse. I do believe they will probably feel remorse because it has effected their own lives. It's not an incapability of seeing past opinions and feelings, it is a capability of seeing what is right and what is wrong. Something these people obviously aren't capable of. There are too many "what if's" when trying to understand or defend someone's motives, it's insulting to the innocent person/people who were wronged by them.
 
Once again, I was never trying to defend said people. I simply reacted to what was said earlier when they should get the same treatment they gave to the baby, and something about imprisonment teaching them nothing. Imo no human should have to suffer what that baby had to suffer, criminal or not.

That isn't in any way offensive or insulting to the people who were wronged by them.
 
I'm not saying two wrongs equal a right. I'm saying that people (not necessarily you) trying to find a reason as to why someone would have done that in the first place as to make it seem "less horrible" because they "may have been wronged themselves" is insulting.

Then again, some people say "an eye for an eye" and if someone mentions Ganghi saying "an eye for an eye makes everyone blind", we are well aware of that quote.
 
Usually I would say things like "do what they did to the child" or just simply "kill 'em". But I think they should get life in prison. Think about it. Baby killers are the lowest of the low when it comes to prison.

They would get beaten/raped/tormented/pissed on/ect. for the rest of their lives in jail. And it wouldnt be from one guy. It would be from ALL of them. If they dont commit suicide within the first 2 months the prisoners would probably do it for them. Hell, if you really want to be sadistic, pay off the biggest inmate there with smokes to pound them into the ground just to make sure the job gets done.

Atleast thats how the prison system works around here. IDK what its like in NZ.
 
Uzor said:
Just because a death ISN'T accidental doesn't mean you can't feel remorse.

And I suppose I am the devil's advocate. But apparently others are incapable of seeing past their own opinions and feelings.
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QFT. This is what I also meant Mirewen. Their actions ARE inexcusable, but death would be sweet sweet release compared to a lifetime of abuse and pain. Think about it, this child LIVED a life of abuse and pain, so why not punish them THAT WAY instead of killing them so soon? Eventually, after all the abuse and beatings, they WILL regret what they did. Why? Because they will realize that their actions earned them their punishment, and although they will apologize and wish they hadn't done what they did, it will make no difference because whats done is done.
 
I already responded to both posts... lol. I doesn't seem like they will feel remorse for what they did to the child, just remorse because it got them to where it did.
 
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Well, if this case isn't an argument for the death penalty then not sure what is. Taking these guys out back and filling them with led wouldn't be about justice, revenge, karma or discouraging this from happening again... it would simply be an act of emotion that in the end would be right.
 
Mirewen said:
I already responded to both posts... lol. I doesn't seem like they will feel remorse for what they did to the child, just remorse because it got them to where it did.
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If you KNEW you'd be in jail for the rest of your life with no chance of ever escaping or getting out of there, would you not rather die?

Answer honestly.

I would never want to be in jail for my entire life, which in their case most likely is 40-60 years. That CAN NOT be fun, seriously. If they got killed by other inmates, or got a death sentence, then they wouldn't have to bother it it. They would never get a chance to think over what they did, nor even a chance to regret it, because they would be dead and wouldn't have to regret anything.

Even if, as you say, the only remorse they will feel is that they actually got caught for it, that is still something they will most likely regret for the rest of their miserable life, as I can't imaginean entire life in prison would be a lot of fun. The psychic and mental stress, anxiety and pressure, as well as the likely depression, can't be very fun to feel for the next 40-60 years.

I know I'd take death sentence over it any day.
 
I work with Foster children who need emergency care these are the children that are removed same day as court orders are made. It's very sad to see some of these children and the long term damage done to them.
 
Firestreak said:
Well, if this case isn't an argument for the death penalty then not sure what is. Taking these guys out back and filling them with led wouldn't be about justice, revenge, karma or discouraging this from happening again... it would simply be an act of emotion that in the end would be right.
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NZ does not have the death penalty and really I'd rather see people like that be punished for the rest of their days - may they be long painful and filled with constant suffering.

As a mother though.... I think i would want them dead.
 
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Let them rot in prison. Killing them won't change a damn thing other then they'll just be dead.
 
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except prison is more like an extended vacation, just their on a set schedule and get locked up over night lol
 
Uzor said:
If you KNEW you'd be in jail for the rest of your life with no chance of ever escaping or getting out of there, would you not rather die?

Answer honestly.
want to be in jail for my entire life, which in their case most likely is 40-60 years. That CAN NOT be fun, seriously. If they got killed by other inmates, or got a death sentence, then they wouldn't have to bother it it. They would never get a chance to think over what they did, nor even a chance to regret it, because they would be dead and wouldn't have to reg
I would never ret anything.

Even if, as you say, the only remorse they will feel is that they actually got caught for it, that is still something they will most likely regret for the rest of their miserable life, as I can't imaginean entire life in prison would be a lot of fun. The psychic and mental stress, anxiety and pressure, as well as the likely depression, can't be very fun to feel for the next 40-60 years.

I know I'd take death sentence over it any day.
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What does that have anything to do with what happened or what I said? I said they would only feel remorse for what they did because it effected THEM. How many times do i need to say that? I never said they would never have feelings of remorse when it came to themselves. Asking me if I'd rather die or live in jail forever has absolutely nothing to do with the subject... and I find it absurd that you would even ask that question.

I have a degree in Psychology, I'm fully away of psychological (not psychic... as you put) damage and anxiety that they will feel in prison. They deserve to be miserable for the rest of their lives. They are scum.

Edit: (going to add this)

The justice system does not see living in jail for the rest of one’s life as more of a punishment. They believe that the maximum punishment is to be put to death. In many cases of “life imprisonment” the criminal does get out of prison (yes, it might be about 20-25 years later but they still get out). They do not take into consideration that the tax payers are paying millions of dollars to keep these degenerates in jail and would rather they be gassed or electrocuted to death.
 
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Mirewen said:
I have a degree in Psychology, I'm fully away of psychological (not psychic... as you put) damage and anxiety that they will feel in prison. They deserve to be miserable for the rest of their lives. They are scum.
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Yep, the only really shitty thing about them rotting away in some hole is someone has to pay for it.

As inhumane as it is, there really should be some extended medieval torture still practiced for such cases.

Stick them in a cold cell with no comforts what-so-ever, give them the very bare minimum for them to survive day to day and let them rot.

Kinda suck that life in prison usually comes with many comforts including free cable etc.
 
Yes. And in many prisons, they get a free trade education as well. Something that people who haven't committed crimes have to pay quite a bit of money for.
 
Mirewen said:
Yes. And in many prisons, they get a free trade education as well. Something that people who haven't committed crimes have to pay quite a bit of money for.
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I know it's fucking disgusting eh. All the low to middle class are forced to struggle their way through getting themselves continuing educations to have half decent lives and these criminals, animals (for rehabilitation purposes) get free educations.

It's a very sad reality we live in.
 
Yeah, but not everyone is willing to hire a convicted felon. So great they have all this training, yet no way to get work with it. So what happens most of the time? You guessed it, they do some stupid crap that lands them RIGHT back in jail. Why not just use that money to fund centers in lower income areas to help people get jobs like mechanics/plumbers/welders/electricians/carpenters and not have them rot away trying to make it big "or die tryin'" like so much of the wasted youth today.
 
I think the thought of giving them an education is so that they will hopefully do that trade (electrician, plumber, welder etc.) rather than reoffending. Some places offer a government kick-back for highering a previous felon as well. But yea, it would be nice for less fortunate people who haven't committed a crime to get assisted training as well but then you'll just have the people who are just over the allowance upset that they had to pay. Most University/College students are under the government sanctioned poverty line. I think when I was in University it was at 60%.
 
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