Feedback Cleaning up the Job Discussion (JD) section

[Lucki]

I should have put it in my OP, but the point behind my post was that I think the Job Forums should stay the way they are; each job should have its own thread. That being said, I think that they could do with a little moderation. Be it from GA's, Liasions, whatever.

 

[Audino]

There doesn't seem to be a super huge amount of traffic in the Job areas. If you want to make it look like how BG has it, thats cool. This site doesn't have near the userbase that BG has, however. Is it really that hard to find out if somethings already been posted? Does it really bother people that much if noobie questions are mixed in with advanced questions? Splitting them up will just make it look like even less people use those areas. People can also make more descriptive thread titles and we won't have to worry about overkill ideas like tags.

 

[Diabllos]

They just need people to take the first step and make guides and stuff worth being stickied.

Guides alone won't fix it all though. Simply because one guide won't suit everyone, and it can't possibly cover every question people might ask either. Though, stickied guides might help resolve some of the issues, so i'm all for that.

Is it really that hard to find out if somethings already been posted?

Does it really bother people that much if noobie questions are mixed in with advanced questions?

It's not so much a complaint on my part, but more a suggestion for improvement. I think it's unnecessary at the moment to make so many one-question threads that are so basic. They're littering up the job section, making it look messy, and it could be made a lot neater, I think, if those types of questions are simply grouped together. It's not really a bother, more of an inconvenience that such easy questions are mixed in with the 'juicier' ones as it were.

A good example of the lack of moderation... I made a PLD/NIN guide, for macros and general gear suggestions. The OP was long, but neat. The next post was by Tribalanius, who (no offence) posted a huge reply containing his own opinions and a lot of unnecessary chatter which made the entire thread look messy. It then got derailed, a few PC+1s were added and nothing happened to it. Waste of a thread with good potential.

Similarly, I made a "DRK Zerk/zerg discussion" thread, aiming to compile everyone's views/discussion into that one thread to keep things neat. The next week, someone makes a thread: "Rune Chopper - Still the poor man's zerk weapon?", which was kind of disappointing. It was a single-question thread, which could've just been added to the previous thread or even in a single PM..

These are just two examples, but there are much more. (@Arc: I'd be willing to PM you my suggestions for which threads go where, and which posts could be deleted if you like).

Splitting them up will just make it look like even less people use those areas. People can also make more descriptive thread titles and we won't have to worry about overkill ideas like tags.

Problem is, people aren't like that. Besides, the section is fairly new. It already looks messy.. without moderation it's going to only get worse. Tags would be a fine idea, I think, but not at all necessary. Since a lot of people don't know how/when to post correctly, that's why I suggest moderation to compensate for it. Titles can be renamed, posts can be moved, deleted, shortened -- and we'll end up with a much neater area of the board which has a great lot of potential to become a valuable section of QCDN.

I suggest we take a leaf out of BG's book and make a "Random question thread" for starters. It could be contained in the JD section itself, or a separate sticky within each job (assuming the individual job sections are remaining).

 

[Tristam Green]

If you want to write guides, do what was suggested when the forums were created. Write them, suggest they get stickied and locked, and report anything within that isn't your writing.

Otherwise, write your guides in FFXIclopedia like everyone else.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Lots of candy and chocolate for the BST section soon. I promise.

 

[Bladewind]

If you want to write guides, do what was suggested when the forums were created. Write them, suggest they get stickied and locked, and report anything within that isn't your writing.

Otherwise, write your guides in FFXIclopedia like everyone else.

Writing new "guides" is a waste of time imo, there's already guides for every job available on multiple different sites. If people are too lazy to actually look for them, what's the point in writing more? If there's something not covered in those guides then they can post here asking the question (although 9/10 time it's possible to link them to wiki referencing said guides that they havn't read...).

Using the "drk zerg(3 pages)" and "rune chopper(7 pages)" threads as an example, people are far more likely to respond to somebody asking a question with advice, or even related questions of there own than they are to post in a thread telling them how they should be doing it.

 

[Tristam Green]

Writing new "guides" is a waste of time imo, there's already guides for every job available on multiple different sites. If people are too lazy to actually look for them, what's the point in writing more? If there's something not covered in those guides then they can post here asking the question (although 9/10 time it's possible to link them to wiki referencing said guides that they havn't read...).

Using the "drk zerg(3 pages)" and "rune chopper(7 pages)" threads as an example, people are far more likely to respond to somebody asking a question with advice, or even related questions of there own than they are to post in a thread telling them how they should be doing it.

In a word: exactly.

Sticky-pages with links to the existing guides is great. The guides I've seen written (at least for BLM and DRK) on the wiki were fairly objective; and that's not to say that some QCDNites wouldn't write objective guides to their jobs; but I can wager that the more outspoken regulars of QCDN wouldn't be as impartial in their approach.

 

[Miros]

A good example of the lack of moderation... I made a PLD/NIN guide, for macros and general gear suggestions. The OP was long, but neat. The next post was by Tribalanius, who (no offence) posted a huge reply containing his own opinions and a lot of unnecessary chatter which made the entire thread look messy. It then got derailed, a few PC+1s were added and nothing happened to it. Waste of a thread with good potential.

Did you happen to report the post and explain this? Or just sit idly by waiting for modmins to pick up on it? >.o This isn't an attack, but I just hate to see people blame it on lack of moderation when really a lot is on the users these days to report things they feel are unnecessary like this and against the rule. I think we can deduct that the current team doesn't have a whole lot of time to read up on every forum.

In a word: exactly.

Sticky-pages with links to the existing guides is great. The guides I've seen written (at least for BLM and DRK) on the wiki were fairly objective; and that's not to say that some QCDNites wouldn't write objective guides to their jobs; but I can wager that the more outspoken regulars of QCDN wouldn't be as impartial in their approach.

I think this is a good idea. Links to guides that help and the website they are attached to would be a wonderful idea. Hell, we do have some original guides too. LadyKiKi made a lot of great ones in the BST section about soloing all the jobs she had to 75 as /bst, showing videos and whatnot as to how they did it.

 

[Rappa]

This topic seems pretty condescending to me. Who are we to judge what is and isn't "suitable" to be asked on the job forums. This isn't freakin bg nor do I want it to be. It's QCDN, where people on our server come to chat or look for advice from other quetz members. If someone wants to ask about a hauby+1, it's not hurting anyone. Dividing already low volume forums into sub-forums (especially condescending ones like "novice" vs "advanced") seems pointless. Who cares if a question gets asked twice? It's not a big deal.

 

[Sneakypants]

I agree with Rappa.
If you all want to come to an agreement on a worthwhile change, then we can probably implement that. If not, honestly, it looks fine to me the way it is.

 

[Tristam Green]

This isn't freakin bg nor do I want it to be.

Emphatically agreed, and is the point I was trying to get across when I said what I did about objectivity in writing a "guide to playing the job" style thread.

I gotta raise my hand and say that I'm the author of the "Rune Chopper - Still the Poor Man's zerg weapon?" thread. I felt kinda put-off by Diabllos's bringing it up here as a disappointment, especially because I valued every viewpoint offered in the thread, and I saw it as a standalone from the "DRK/DRG zerg discussion", primarily because I didn't see DRK/DRG as the only zerg job. The entire thread played out nicely until the end, at which point it turned into a shit-slinging contest of "stfu, x is better than y" posts like every other thread in the DRK job forum.

 

[Diabllos]

This topic seems pretty condescending to me. Who are we to judge what is and isn't "suitable" to be asked on the job forums. This isn't freakin bg nor do I want it to be. It's QCDN, where people on our server come to chat or look for advice from other quetz members. If someone wants to ask about a hauby+1, it's not hurting anyone. Dividing already low volume forums into sub-forums (especially condescending ones like "novice" vs "advanced") seems pointless. Who cares if a question gets asked twice? It's not a big deal.

How is it at all condescending? The area is messy, i'm suggesting an improvement to benefit everyone here on the boards. It's not some personal pet-peeve I have, it's a true suggestion to improve our boards.

QCDN is very different to BG. I'm not advocating we become more like them, but there's no harm in taking a leaf from their book, is there? Some things on QCDN I prefer a lot over how BG does it; equally, i prefer some of the ways they do things too. Problem is, i'm afraid that this place "where people on our server come to chat or look for advice" is misleading, in the job section at least. It just makes us look bad, when it could be easily resolved.

If someone wants to ask about "Hauby+1 Vs. Hachiman hands+1", they can ask it. There's no reason to make a whole damn thread about it though, lol. Especially when it can be answered in a simple; "Hauby+1". Also, I don't see what's condescending about making a "Beginner" and "Advanced" section. Nothing wrong with being a beginner, and there sure are a lot of them around on all the servers, Quetzalcoatl included.

You're right though, it's not a big deal, nor do I intend it to become one. It's a suggestion in support/feedback, where it belongs. Don't get so offended by it.

I gotta raise my hand and say that I'm the author of the "Rune Chopper - Still the Poor Man's zerg weapon?" thread. I felt kinda put-off by Diabllos's bringing it up here as a disappointment, especially because I valued every viewpoint offered in the thread, and I saw it as a standalone from the "DRK/DRG zerg discussion", primarily because I didn't see DRK/DRG as the only zerg job.

I didn't name the OP for a reason. Don't take offence by me mentioning it, but it'ss a good example of the lack of moderation.

The thread I made was titled "Speed-kill / Zerk / Rush discussion", and was the very first thread made in the DRK section. I listed subs, weapons and gear; everything involved with 'zerking as DRK. There was really no need to make an entire thread based on RC, when i'd already covered it in the previous thread. It's not a big deal, but it was one of the first things that made me notice the unnecceties that started arising in the job section. It just seemed a waste, and kind of annoying when I spent quite a lot of time putting that thread together in the first place.

 

[Sneakypants]

I appreciate that there are those that consider the betterment of this cyberspace we share.

One thing I won't appreciate is unnecessary picking and dissecting that will inevitably come with "Beginner" and "Advanced" sectional divisions.

So...I'll just say this:
IF a new idea comes of this discussion (or any other) and it is implemented, what subjects belong where will be decided by the OP (initially), and regulated and placed more appropriately by the moderation team if need be.

If a user has a personal problem with the location of a thread, the single best way to express that opinion and simultaneously alert the moderation team about it is to use the report function. Call it a canned response if you like, but it is a process that works. Likewise, if a user chooses to exercise an avenue other than the report function to call attention to such incidents, that would be dealt with, cleaned up, dragged to the middle of nowhere and left for dead, etc.

I encourage the free-thinking and the mindset that this place can be made better, but until we have an idea that proves to be a winner, at least with a solid majority, no changes will be made.

 

[Rappa]

If someone wants to ask about "Hauby+1 Vs. Hachiman hands+1", they can ask it. There's no reason to make a whole damn thread about it though, lol.

So like I said, you're basically wanting to tell people what they can and cannot make a topic about. If you think a topic is stupid, it doesn't take much effort to click the Back button and never look at it again.

 

[Tim Wakefield]

There doesn't seem to be a super huge amount of traffic in the Job areas. If you want to make it look like how BG has it, thats cool. This site doesn't have near the userbase that BG has, however. Is it really that hard to find out if somethings already been posted? Does it really bother people that much if noobie questions are mixed in with advanced questions? Splitting them up will just make it look like even less people use those areas. People can also make more descriptive thread titles and we won't have to worry about overkill ideas like tags.

This.

 

[Diabllos]

So like I said, you're basically wanting to tell people what they can and cannot make a topic about. If you think a topic is stupid, it doesn't take much effort to click the Back button and never look at it again.

I'm not telling people what they can't post. I'm suggesting that they post them elsewhere, i.e. a random-question thread. I'm not trying to lay down any laws here, i'm suggesting improvements. It's going to vastly improve this new section of QCDN if people can group these kinds of questions into a single thread. If anything, the creation of such a thread would encourage people to ask more and provoke discussion, but whilst keeping it all tidy at the same time.

People can post what they want, but there's no need to make the forums look stupid by making whole threads about short (and often rather silly) questions.

 

[Gannon]

You seem to be the only one who thinks this is a problem. The section is fine the way it is.

 

[LadyKiKi]

Searching through a single thread with random questions is incredibly difficult, especially when it ballons to big proportions (BG's random question thread) which is why people still post about certain questions instead of searching. And with the 60 second retry limit for searching here that makes it a bit more difficult to search for anything useful. Plus the search doesn't bring back desired results most of the time due to again limitations imposed on the search.

Random Question threads also get cluttered up and can be hard to track certain "questions + discussions" if it goes --> Question (1) --> Response (to 1) --> Response (to 1) --> Another Question (2) --> Response (to 1) --> Response (to 2) --> Question (3) --> Response (to 1) --> Question 4 --> ... Question (3) gets ignored, and so on.

And as people pointed out, traffic is low anyways. 1 of the forums already look stupid (DNC section in particular, thanks to Urat) which gets ridiculed by BG from what I've seen. And as it's still relatively low traffic here, why not make the threads for (stupid) questions and then (after 2-3 years if the game is still alive or anyone here is still playing) make a sticky linking to them?

 

[Jeska]

I think many visitors here use the New posts feature just to see if theres something interesting to them to maybe post about. Using this takes them directly to the thread, they dont know what forum this is in really all that matters is theres a thread they are interested in contributing to.

Isnt that why people come to a site? To contribute, next we'll be telling them their posts need approval from certain people before they are final. That'll make this place real unpopular.

 

[Morwen]

I say the Job Discussion subforums are fine the way they are. They just need people to take the first step and make guides and stuff worth being stickied.

After reading through this thread, I honestly think this is the main point and best quote.