Confusing DMG mods~ And back to the Osode debate.

[Palides]

Overtime you will see 2% more DA procs on your DA-able hits on the ws (first two). Normal TP return for Hanger / Ridill is 13...during dynamis on Tuesday I tested using the flanks on ws, and proc'd more than one 15tp return, which very rarely happened before. WAR or /WAR still benefit from DA+ gear, which is why you you see WAR's wearing Brutal, and why the ares set is beneficial.

Haidate are always the best for TP, no matter what the weapon, assuming the rest of your gear can make up for the 5% DA bonus from having full ares. WS the only debate is the loss of CRIT consistency...a loss of 9 DEX is still quite a bit...which is why it needs testing.

Pretty much what I said, eh? Ares no good unless it enhances double attack during tp? [Which by you using Hangar, it can, my error for not seeing that.] Justice/Joy it won't, nor will it enhance WS on that set up. For WAR it makes much more difference on WS since Haidate enhances crits; as DRG I don't have to worry about that. Penta only crits on the 1st hit if you SA... -.-

I don't think full Ares will beat most "normal" sky/assault set ups for war, Short of the wall-hack AV victors that have Mars Ring/Ninurta's Sash. At least on DRG [my main,] I haven't seen a set up in full Ares that beats the Haste/acc/atk/meat build. Perhaps WAR may be different but I wouldn't think so.

 

[Palides]

Addendum:

Double attack vs. Haste [on only the 5 main body slots:]

Full Ares: +12% double attack [10% +2% legs,] Atk, +43, Acc + 29, Str + 22, Dex +6 [Acc +2 for dual wielders??] Haste 0%

Walmart, Adaberk [Armada,] Dusk [+1,] B. Haidate, Dusk [+1:] Double Attack 0%, Atk 24[25,] Acc + 15[16,] Str + 10[11,] Dex + 25 [+ 26,] Haste + 15% [17%]

To me the "normal" set up will have a great advantage in DoT over the full Ares. Of course, this is during a "full haste" set up, using swift/speed/velocious. It has more of an advantage in merits w/ haste spell, and even more of an advantage during bard or dual bard parties. Dyna, HNM, or high VIT mobs? I would think full Ares has the advantage. But again it depends on the weapon usage, the merits the War has in weapons, and the other slots the War has filled with either haste/acc/atk.

As far as Drg, I'd take full Homam or Ares any day, and you'd hear no complaints. :biggrin:

 

[jamal]

Pretty much what I said, eh? Ares no good unless it enhances double attack during tp? [Which by you using Hangar, it can, my error for not seeing that.] Justice/Joy it won't, nor will it enhance WS on that set up. For WAR it makes much more difference on WS since Haidate enhances crits; as DRG I don't have to worry about that. Penta only crits on the 1st hit if you SA... -.-

I don't think full Ares will beat most "normal" sky/assault set ups for war, Short of the wall-hack AV victors that have Mars Ring/Ninurta's Sash. At least on DRG [my main,] I haven't seen a set up in full Ares that beats the Haste/acc/atk/meat build. Perhaps WAR may be different but I wouldn't think so.

Justice / joy it still will enhance* the weapons proc on ws's just like any other. Multi-hit weapons are also affected in tp by DA trait and enhancements (See Phraust's testing).
Haste+ is always the most viable for tp gear because no matter the weapon you're lessening delay and thus attacking more. DA+ is very similar in TP gear, but without the added benefit of also enhancing spell recasts. Straight Dmg over time, someone with 15% haste gear 0% DA (trait or gear) will have exactly the same dmg done as someone with 15% DA Trait / gear (assuming all other stats are equalized). The Big difference is in WS's, where haste is worthless. Thus, Macroing in DA gear in Haste slots for WS is greatly beneficial, as long as you're not reducing other needed stats.

*Adding clarification. The multi-hit in the weapon itself cannot proc during weaponskills, however the weapons are able to DA proc just as any other weapon could during ws.

 

[Palides]

*Adding clarification. The multi-hit in the weapon itself cannot proc during weaponskills, however the weapons are able to DA proc just as any other weapon could during ws.[/I]

So it's not enhancing the WS. The double attack trait is.

 

[jamal]

So it's not enhancing the WS. The double attack trait is.

The trait and enhancing gear is. The trait accounts for a percentage, the gear adds to that percentage.

From Wiki:

* Game Description: May double your attacks.
* Job Traits are always active.
* Further Notes:
o Occasionally allows a character to attack twice in one round.
o If two weapons are Dual Wielded, this trait may activate on both attacks separately.
o When a Hand-to-Hand weapon is equipped, this trait may activate on both punches separately.
o May activate during weapon skills.
+ On multi-hit weapon skills, Double Attack can occur on the first two hits.
o May activate during Jump and High Jump
o Double Attack will only yield one extra hit per activation even if using a multi-hit weapon such as Soboro Sukehiro or Kraken Club
+ Virtue Stone weapons gained from defeating Jailers of Virtue can activate Double Attack.
o Rate of activation is normally 10%, with no stat affecting it.
o Rate of Double Attack activation has no difference between Warrior as main job and Warrior as sub job, excluding merit points.
o Rate with Fighter's Calligae equipped is believed to be 11% (Additional +1%).
o Each Merit Point increases the rate of activation by 1%.

Enhances Double Attack Effect

* Increases rate of Double Attack by 5%
* Grants Double Attack to jobs that cannot use it otherwise.

The Brutal Earring enhances the entire rate by 5%, this includes a 5% rate increase on WS's.

 

[Vilurum]

Actual job trait in the menu, and gear that enhances the trait are, in all cases except for Dual Wield, exactly the same thing. If you have X% of Double Attack from trait, Y% from merits, Z% from gear, then you'll double attack at (X + Y + Z)% rate, not counting hits which can't proc Double Attack in *any* case (such as "occasionally attacks N times" weapons *when they proc*, 1-TP hits on multi-hit WS, and Triple Attack procs).

There's no need to make any distinction whatsoever between job trait and gear, except for the purposes of comparing baseline (with trait but without gear) to test case (with trait and gear).

 

[jamal]

So let me get this strait you would gimp yourself with eating inferior food or putting on a lol earing instead of losing 5 acc and gaining 3 str 1 tp. Do you have no concept of getting the most out of your gear. If I need the acc I would use pcc, but normally I sit had 90% acc rating and normally one the highest on the parse.

This was not you that said this? Parsing 90% with Chivalrous Chain? You also said this:

You was one that said it not I, as I said before don't need pcc with the setup I have and would never get pcc even if I had the best setup because it is not needed, I have one for lvling a job that is all once job hit 60 chiv chain is better. Only exception would be maybe mnk and thf.

If all you're truly trying to prove is WS gear, then its not that big of a deal. You were making claims that you parsed 90% accuracy while using chivalrous chain. THAT is where the major issue is.

Stop wasting time and end this discussion...

You're speaking like you've actually proven something when of course you can make a STR+ ACC+ piece of gear work on a WS. Show me some substantial proof for claims you've been making for two days now about winning parses while having 90% accuracy, and stop beating around the bush. Everyone reading this has wasted enough time trying to interpret what you're saying, so either show me something substantial that warrants discussion or I'm done giving you the respect in any DD discussion from this point forward.

Just reminding you I don't forget about things Mr. storm. Before you make weekend plans please show me an airtight proof that you can parse over 90% accuracy while winning the parse while TP'ing in C.Chain.

Parses, as always, will need to be on substantial monsters (ie, no birds). Gearsets of everyone involved will be needed (to make sure you don't pull out joe-narahimsavest-war to parse against). Parse must run for at least a good hour and a half.

 

[hellstorm]

Just to prove a point...your gearset can be matched by PLD. SS is /nin, but I obviously could go /war to have berserk.

When your STR+ and DEX+ are both trumped by a PLD, you need to work with your gear.

Now will you show me the parses I'm looking for where you placed first topping 90-95% accuracy while using Chivalrous Chain.

Just to note I never said my gear is complete. My argument was about pre-heca cap which you have there. If you look back at post #106 I explain that after getting hecca cap the gear would change do to lossing the acc and attack of E. Head. I also said that after getting n feet (which have the abj just waiting for -1 feet piece) that my gear would change. As for parse get to it when I can. Have little time at moment to merit. Hench reason why was trying to avoid it.

 

[jamal]

Just to note I never said my gear is complete. My argument was about pre-heca cap which you have there. If you look back at post #106 I explain that after getting hecca cap the gear would change do to lossing the acc and attack of E. Head. I also said that after getting n feet (which have the abj just waiting for -1 feet piece) that my gear would change. As for parse get to it when I can. Have little time at moment to merit. Hench reason why was trying to avoid it.

But you didn't have the 5 seconds to explain the time gap between your 'promises' and actual data. Had you done what you actually said, you would have the parses in front of you to prove it.

 

[liltaruman]

When I read this, I thought he already had parses to back up his claims.

 

[Nycon]

When I read this, I thought he already had parses to back up his claims.

Who are you? You post in all these threads with comments which would lead ppl to believe you know more about the game that you lead on in your Meet and Greet thread.

You really just started playing and already one of the most tight knit groups(AG) allows you into their forums?

In some of your first posts you come off as being very newbish about the game, but more and more your posts have things in them that only experianced players would know about, like parses of merit parties.

So am I way off and you really are a new player, or are you and old player with a new name?

 

[liltaruman]

Who are you? You post in all these threads with comments which would lead ppl to believe you know more about the game that you lead on in your Meet and Greet thread.

You really just started playing and already one of the most tight knit groups(AG) allows you into their forums?

In some of your first posts you come off as being very newbish about the game, but more and more your posts have things in them that only experianced players would know about, like parses of merit parties.

So am I way off and you really are a new player, or are you and old player with a new name?

Try reading, I am RL friends with some members in the area (NY/NJ). They told me there are some brilliant people who play this game.

Edit: I've played a few MMOs in my day, parses aren't strictly FF only.

 

[hellstorm]

When I read this, I thought he already had parses to back up his claims.

I have parsed it before but Jamal said he want ss of people gear as proof that it not a spoof party. However I don't know what a spoof party would have to do with me getting a 90%+ acc ratting in the gear shown? Also I had to switch parses back in febuary - march (when ever that big update was) and when doing so all my previous parses where lost. From there on the only parses I have are the ones that are in dynamis. Because most of my off time has went to lvling smn. So next time I merit I'll put on my chiv chain instead of my temp torque and parse it and ill make sure to get ss. Also remeber I was not the one that started this thread I chimed in on the part where haub is better then heca body and said heca body don't have a place on war. Then again when they said that pcc is the best neck piece. Both are false statements which I will prove in due time.

 

[jamal]

I have parsed it before but Jamal said he want ss of people gear as proof that it not a spoof party. However I don't know what a spoof party would have to do with me getting a 90%+ acc ratting in the gear shown? Also I had to switch parses back in febuary - march (when ever that big update was) and when doing so all my previous parses where lost. From there on the only parses I have are the ones that are in dynamis. Because most of my off time has went to lvling smn. So next time I merit I'll put on my chiv chain instead of my temp torque and parse it and ill make sure to get ss.

SS's of the gear is because you said you won the parses with 90% accuracy. God are you stupid.

 

[Vilurum]

I'd imagine it'd be SS's of your gear to prove your accuracy, and SS's of your fellow party members' gear to back up your damage percentage. Because it's easy to do 40%+ damage if the other melees are gimps, for example. But it wouldn't mean anything. Hence the SS's of their gear to demonstrate they aren't gimps and, by extension, make *your* damage percentage meaningful. If you don't understand the reasoning, just humor him and get the SS's anyway and don't argue about the reasons.

 

[Dejan]

So we're still in the debate on weather Hell can outparse anything in a merit party as a rdm melee?

One way we could settle this is to actually get Hellstorm and put him in a qcdn made party, that is, of course, if we manage to party long enough to get some actual data, and have a tub full of holy water at the side so we can cleanse ourselves down after a party with him.

 

[jamal]

So we're still in the debate on weather Hell can outparse anything in a merit party as a rdm melee?

One way we could settle this is to actually get Hellstorm and put him in a qcdn made party, that is, of course, if we manage to party long enough to get some actual data, and have a tub full of holy water at the side so we can cleanse ourselves down after a party with him.

This is actually a different claim, that he had 90% acc while winning multiple parses using Chivalrous chain.

 

[Gwathuial]

Straight Dmg over time, someone with 15% haste gear 0% DA (trait or gear) will have exactly the same dmg done as someone with 15% DA Trait / gear (assuming all other stats are equalized).

Actually, this is incorrect, as 15% haste isn't 15% more damage, but rather 15% less delay. 85% delay will lead you to attack 17.6% faster, and the rate of increase increases as you add more haste. At 50% DA, you will increase damage by 50%, but 50% haste will double you damage, as you have half the delay, and thus attack twice as fast.

This is also the reason for the recent nerf, since a RC DRK could reach ~93% delay reduction, giving a ~1328% damage increase.

 

[Redshift]

A tad late, but

Maybe everyone missed a small detail... But you don't need STP+7 as a WAR/SAM to get a 6 hit build, only STP+6. As long as you don't whiff Raging Rush to a single hit (who the hell uses Steel Cyclone in a merit party?).

A 504 Delay GA with STP+21 (/sam + rajas + brutal) gets 16.5 TP a hit. As long as you land 2/3 hits from Raging Rush (not missing the first hit) you'll get 17.7 TP, 3/3 is 18.9 and a single DA is 20.1

17.7 + 16.5 x 5 = 100.2 TP

 

[Diabllos]

To Gwathuial & Redshift:

You both don't post enough. Contribute more and teach some people here a thing or two.

Edit: Just realised your join date Red... lol. I guess this applies more to Gwathuial.