CONGRATULATIONS NH (ALL RIGHT!)

Actually, I was just writing that response up when Elemmire posted that and I saw it while previewing this post.

No one is going to be perfect at something when they've never done it before. We got it to 45% and were still going strong. We most likely would have gotten it to 10% at the rate we were going, and who knows, we might have even won. 45% is a lot closer than any other NA shell that I have heard of, so why is it a bad thing for us to be happy that we're getting closer? there's no reason why we can't kill Tiamat or any other mob on the server, but experience is a vital factor in performing well in anything you do. We're getting the experience we need, and soon we'll own it.
 
Ezikiel said:
Elemmire said:
And there's something I'd like to know.. (as Baja put it while talking to him) "I would really like to know how they're all ignoring the fact that it took Kaizen MONTHS to figure out how to beat Tiamat, and that we've only tried 3 times somehow makes us all idiots"
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Nobody is calling you an idiot for trying. Nobody even calling you an idiot for failing. CFH's happen, mistakes happen. I remember watching the JP alliance CFH on it 2x in one night when they were still figuring it out.

What is annoying is the constant "omg we got him to 73% today! gogo us!!" Especially the "Tiamat is easy" comment, thats just over the top.

When you beat him, then you can act tough, then you are a player. Until then, stfu about it.. keep to yourselves and nobody will care how many times you fail. :wink:
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I never made that thread.. that's odon.. frankly.. when we win I don't care to even make a thread about it. And Tiamat is easy. Atleast, as I've experienced it.
 
Elemmire said:
Ah.. so they say. But I've seen the fights over and over again before with other LS and the "other half" of the fight isn't much more intense. Tiamat spams Mighty Strikes anyways in the "half" we were in. The other moves that are so bad that he does a lot appearantly are terrorize (whoopy) and his wing attack. Firaga is never a problem any stage since we have enough stunnders. The wing is easy healed and doesn't do all THAT much damage. So she hits a bit more/harder... not a big deal either. We had plenty of mages there to counter with healing, plenty of back up tanks, we would have been fine.
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do you think I'm just blowing smoke or something about the last 10%? there's a reason you see ls'es wipe at 1% time and time again. I know you're not a ninja, so I'll try not to skip anything. ninjas use utsusemi, this prevents them from getting hit. wing erases utsusemi, terror prevents utsusemi from getting recast. utsusemi has a long recast time. tiamat hits a ninja for half their life bar per hit and uses double attack. do the math. so what happpens when a ninja dies or takes enough damage to lose hate, tiamat starts moving. guess what else is a tp move, spike flail. wyrm tp spam is a nightmare, but why should you take my word for it?

p.s. firaga is a spell, not a tp move, there is no increase in firaga usage at the end of the fight.
 
Elemmire said:
I never made that thread.. that's odon.. frankly.. when we win I don't care to even make a thread about it. And Tiamat is easy. Atleast, as I've experienced it.
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Right, one of your members made that thread, and I am referring to your linkshell

Call tiamat easy when you beat him, otherwise you look like a fool to everyone else.

I suppose you are used to that though :?


Baja~

I agree with you totally. I think eventually you guys will win that fight, and be the second NA LS to do it, which is a major accomplishment. I dont think anyone faults you for trying. :D
 
phazen said:
Elemmire said:
Ah.. so they say. But I've seen the fights over and over again before with other LS and the "other half" of the fight isn't much more intense. Tiamat spams Mighty Strikes anyways in the "half" we were in. The other moves that are so bad that he does a lot appearantly are terrorize (whoopy) and his wing attack. Firaga is never a problem any stage since we have enough stunnders. The wing is easy healed and doesn't do all THAT much damage. So she hits a bit more/harder... not a big deal either. We had plenty of mages there to counter with healing, plenty of back up tanks, we would have been fine.
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do you think I'm just blowing smoke or something about the last 10%? there's a reason you see ls'es wipe at 1% time and time again. I know you're not a ninja, so I'll try not to skip anything. ninjas use utsusemi, this prevents them from getting hit. wing erases utsusemi, terror prevents utsusemi from getting recast. utsusemi has a long recast time. tiamat hits a ninja for half their life bar per hit and uses double attack. do the math. so what happpens when a ninja dies or takes enough damage to lose hate, tiamat starts moving. guess what else is a tp move, spike flail. wyrm tp spam is a nightmare, but why should you take my word for it?

p.s. firaga is a spell, not a tp move, there is no increase in firaga usage at the end of the fight.
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I know firaga is a spell. I'm just saying most of his dangerous things are easily avoided. I, personally, would prefer we used PLD tanks. They take hits better..a PLD/NIN can still hold hate well if they are good and can take much more of a beating. There's a reason I like PLDs for Geush for the same reason. They can take the 800-1200 hit (especially since Geush hits through shadows) and can be cured fast enough to live through things. But, Maseki and others wished to use NIN tanks and that's fine. We still have PLDs ready just incase. And I still get annoyed with Vang and Tiya and other asshats of the like bashing NH cause we haven't won against a Wyrm. It's stupid as hell. They forget that it took you guys (Kaizen) months to beat these things. It will take time for everyone. But, wait.. they don't think.
 
Ele, I dont' know you well, I don't know you at all....


...but I think you do need to calm down. I know it can be rough getting recognition for things. I'm a DRG. *cowers at the replies that will involve that 3 letter sentence* ._.

You're right. To a degree.

You calling it easy, kinda bothers me. I'm not even in an HNMLS.


Things like that are for those who have beaten him to say. The best thing to say is "well, we got him to 45%. Soon we'll do better!"


And leave it at that. I may be wrong. But that just seems like the situation.
 
Elemmire said:
I know firaga is a spell. I'm just saying most of his dangerous things are easily avoided. I, personally, would prefer we used PLD tanks. They take hits better..a PLD/NIN can still hold hate well if they are good and can take much more of a beating. There's a reason I like PLDs for Geush for the same reason. They can take the 800-1200 hit (especially since Geush hits through shadows) and can be cured fast enough to live through things. But, Maseki and others wished to use NIN tanks and that's fine. We still have PLDs ready just incase. And I still get annoyed with Vang and Tiya and other asshats of the like bashing NH cause we haven't won against a Wyrm. It's stupid as hell. They forget that it took you guys (Kaizen) months to beat these things. It will take time for everyone. But, wait.. they don't think.
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I don't care how great your pld is, they wont hold hate through very many 800 damage hits. and the most dangerous things tiamat does are all tp moves, which are practically unavoidable. the only reason you can say practically is because if you time a stun perfectly (before the tp move starts casting) it can technically get interrupted.
 
phazen said:
Elemmire said:
I know firaga is a spell. I'm just saying most of his dangerous things are easily avoided. I, personally, would prefer we used PLD tanks. They take hits better..a PLD/NIN can still hold hate well if they are good and can take much more of a beating. There's a reason I like PLDs for Geush for the same reason. They can take the 800-1200 hit (especially since Geush hits through shadows) and can be cured fast enough to live through things. But, Maseki and others wished to use NIN tanks and that's fine. We still have PLDs ready just incase. And I still get annoyed with Vang and Tiya and other asshats of the like bashing NH cause we haven't won against a Wyrm. It's stupid as hell. They forget that it took you guys (Kaizen) months to beat these things. It will take time for everyone. But, wait.. they don't think.
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I don't care how great your pld is, they wont hold hate through very many 800 damage hits. and the most dangerous things tiamat does are all tp moves, which are practically unavoidable. the only reason you can say practically is because if you time a stun perfectly (before the tp move starts casting) it can technically get interrupted.
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I have a question, what about throwing in some rdm/drk's for that final push like with the dynamis lord fight? Although I'd think hate might be a problem at that point with spamming Stun.
 
phazen said:
Elemmire said:
I know firaga is a spell. I'm just saying most of his dangerous things are easily avoided. I, personally, would prefer we used PLD tanks. They take hits better..a PLD/NIN can still hold hate well if they are good and can take much more of a beating. There's a reason I like PLDs for Geush for the same reason. They can take the 800-1200 hit (especially since Geush hits through shadows) and can be cured fast enough to live through things. But, Maseki and others wished to use NIN tanks and that's fine. We still have PLDs ready just incase. And I still get annoyed with Vang and Tiya and other asshats of the like bashing NH cause we haven't won against a Wyrm. It's stupid as hell. They forget that it took you guys (Kaizen) months to beat these things. It will take time for everyone. But, wait.. they don't think.
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I don't care how great your pld is, they wont hold hate through very many 800 damage hits. and the most dangerous things tiamat does are all tp moves, which are practically unavoidable. the only reason you can say practically is because if you time a stun perfectly (before the tp move starts casting) it can technically get interrupted.
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800 a hit? from Tiamat? I've never seen that on a PLD before even in the crazy mode. 500 maybe.. but a good PLD will have 1700-2000+ HP. A good PLD can hold hate fine with melee with THF subs or THF TA-ing on them, them using job abilities, and also using spells. Not to mention the PLDs could deal some damage with a Staff WS to help hold hate (if they used Earth Staff) or Spirits Within if they use a sword and shield. You guys really doubt we can do it.. why not, oh, next Tiamat pop, give us a shot at it? Oh wait.. you wouldn't wanna do that.. then you wouldn't be the only NA LS on the server to kill Tiamat.
 
They forget that it took you guys (Kaizen) months to beat these things. It will take time for everyone. But, wait.. they don't think.
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The supposed months that it took us to beat Tiamat only included 4 attempts without the use of the ledge. Even without the ledge, we still managed to kill it. However, the only major niche that would have ended up getting us killed during those attempts was it spamming way too many AoE's for an alliance to keep up on. I would really like to see any shell try to take Tiamat without the use of the ledge and see how long they would last.
 
to baja: that's something we've done in the past but we no longer go that route, it's too risky with hate.

to elemmire: the 800 was supposed to be quoting your damage, but whatever. our paladins take around 500 per hit, and of course can take that twice. hate loss is extreme when you take that kind of damage, especially without war sub for provoke. not once have I publically "doubted" your shell's ability to eventually take it down, nor do I think I've ever insulted you guys. but take it from someone who's been there, it's ridiculous to assume you can kill it through the last 10% before you've ever even experienced it. wyrm tp spam is probably the most difficult thing to deal with in the entire game at this point.
 
Perhaps. But at this point with the way we are both competing over Tiamat (and I'm sure other LSs will be soon) it'll be tough to really be given that chance to see what we can do during the last 10%. Most don't like going to Jorm because of the distance to get to him (took so damn long to get people there) and aren't thrilled about the drops (though most really just wanna kill to kill and have fun). Vrtra most think we should do last (as I tend to agree) after we work on the other Dragons/Wyrms.

And my only point really is that I'm sick of Vang and crew coming in and bashing NH cause we haven't killed it yet in the.. oh.. 3 chances we've had at it. It's really really annoying. Especially when I'm sure they could do no better with that little amount of trying. They all forget that it took Kaizen sometime to master Tiamat and Vrtra and Jorm. It'll take some time for other LSs too.
 
Phazen, your honestly wasting your time, time and time again I've tried to explain to them at the last 10% isn't a walk in the park and they just shrug it off, most of them anyway.
 
You should all quit boasting and conjecting, afterall, it's a well documented fact I've successfully soloed Tiamet with my penis and I haven't said shit in this whole NH and Kaizen thing.
 
Firestreak said:
You should all quit boasting and conjecting, afterall, it's a well documented fact I've successfully soloed Tiamet with my penis and I haven't said shit in this whole NH and Kaizen thing.
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So you are into beastialty?
 
Haha.. Fire XD funny. And Odon, I'm sure Tiamat gets harder at 20% then 10%-0, but I don't doubt we couldn't kill it.
 
One thing I'd like to say the should hopefully click that switch in your heads:

'Uses' does not equal 'Spams'.

Example:
Tiamat Uses Mighty Strikes all the way through the fight, at 50% or less, Tiamat Spams Mighty strikes.

With that in mind, go reread Phazen's post on the fight in general.
 
Phraust said:
One thing I'd like to say the should hopefully click that switch in your heads:

'Uses' does not equal 'Spams'.

Example:
Tiamat Uses Mighty Strikes all the way through the fight, at 50% or less, Tiamat Spams Mighty strikes.

With that in mind, go reread Phazen's post on the fight in general.
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it certainly uses it far more than a 2 hour was meant to be used in 20minutes.
 
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