consolidation of rng hate threads

[Sanjo Renomitsu]

party starting in jeuno

Me leader=random melee job
healer
tank
refresher

two slots left to be open

me: what jobs should i get
everyone in unison(sp): are there any rng or blm?

now, you can axe the rng, its just "is there any blm?"

for everyone who was calling for balance, where is the balance now?

the balance you guys are seeking is not there, regardless of what you think. the only thing that happened is that ranger got demoted to the ranks of other melee(my drk included).

lets all not lie to ourselves, everyone wanted rangers in their pt, every cannon i ran, after all the tanks, and mages would send tells, "invite me next time".

you guys were all willing to ride the rng train when we carried you guys from 2k an hour to 6k+. sat back in your chair since fights never lasted long enough for you to do anything but pro/shell and the occasional erase or cure.

a question for the sethala

i think you have hauby, snipers, pretty good/great gear. do you like seeing the melee get a pt in front of you with nq 54 rings, no hauby, very mediocre/below par gear?

No huaby? A year ago hauby was considered a nice to have gear, now it's required?

 

[meeze]

what i'm saying, is if you work hard for the top of the line gear, there is a certain expectation you should get picked first. i remember who is well equipped in my pt's and keep them in mind for next time.

this wasn't happening with my drk, so i took up a job that is rewarded for the time they put in while not in xp.

now their are rng that gimp their way through and get invited because of the name rng had, but lets not lie now, there are whms blms plds nins and rdms that do the same thing.

how many jobs spend hours the night before a day they plan on xp'n to be ready?

 

[Taurothar]

Meeze, the arguement isn't that people complained about the balance, hell we all enjoyed overpowered rangers, but SE saw that 9/10 invites for that DD slot go to RNG they had to "fix" it, for good or for bad. I don't agree with how severe the damage reduction on higher level mobs is, but that's something to work out in a patch if we all write in to SE. This issue is gonna be discussed up and down on every FFXI forum until people either cope, or bitch their way into another fix. Which do you think is gonna happen first?

On a happy note: Happy 600th post to me.

 

[Sanjo Renomitsu]

I honestly don't know what facking world most of you live in, but mine is mostly

"Hey remember that great pt we had last night, 7k/hour? Want to xp again?" "No thanks, I'm chatting with ls." 2hour later /s Jeuno "Man lfg sucks I never get pt's/"

I'm sure none of you have forgotten about the 3 hour + lfg system? As long as people have decent gear I'm happy just to get some xp. You look for peeps to ask for pt, and yes like you said those classes are badly wanted, yet more often then not I see 2 nin maybe not in pt, the other 3 are jpn and the two I ask don't want to pt. Never any brd on, pain in the butt beating everyone else looking for a rdm, and rng is scarce too. For being "wantable" classes, these classes are in serious lack. This rng nerf doesn't effect me at all, because I rarely pt with rng. Why? Because at any given time there are like 3 rng max your level range. Honestly, gear would be the least concern, because I really don't give a damn if this war his hauby so he can do 3 more damage if even, instead of another war so I can get xp. If you work to be better then everyone else, well then good for you, the truth is it won't effect your invite rate much unless you're using level 30 gear at 60. In the end, you're still a drg. In the end, you're still a smn.

Now regarding what you said about no balance, I don't know why people axe out the rng. Even now I still look for rng, hoping one might be on to invite. The ballance isn't that great I guess now, at least raccu should be fixed I suppose, but who knows what S-E will do in the future. Frankly though, losing rng really doesn't effect anything but the rng who dream of chugging ige account or hour by hour gil and turning those big numbers into big dmg numbers. >< honestly if they gimped a class I loved, say sam, made their 2hour back the way it was, doesn't give you 100 tp, and make tp store gie you 2 tp extra at 75, make meditate only give 50 mp. Take a guess who will still be facking a samurai.

 

[meeze]

i guess i get my attitude from my sales background. i work harder on the floor to get the most ups and work each up to the max $$$. If the companies i worked for decided to make the pay hourly based that i would continue to make them the max $$$. naw, i would slack off, show up late, tell customers to shove it when they had a problem.

if there is no incentive to be the best at what you do, what is the point. if i work my ass off to be the best, and get paid like the rest, i will stop working as hard (ie silver arrows @75).

i switched back to xbow since the update, no more 16k bullets and arrows for me.

 

[Strid]

No, I'm not going to bring up the fact that melee spend a heck of a lot more on gear than RNGs do, and the only reason RNGs spend more is because of ammo.

Allow me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a side note a pretty funny sig I found:

 

[Bajaratt]

No, I'm not going to bring up the fact that melee spend a heck of a lot more on gear than RNGs do, and the only reason RNGs spend more is because of ammo.

Allow me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a side note a pretty funny sig I found:

Actually, I compared the gear for RNG's and my monk, since that was the only DD job I could fairly compare it to. Barring weapons, just due to the large number of choices, my monk has spent way more on gear than rng's do. Assuming that the mnk is mainly wearing AF and quested his brown belt, they'd still spend at least twice what a rng does on gear. Looking to what my monk is wearing and the same rng gear, the difference grows a lot. But then, I <3 my scorp harness.

 

[random hero]

rng is still fun yay

 

[Strid]

No, I'm not going to bring up the fact that melee spend a heck of a lot more on gear than RNGs do, and the only reason RNGs spend more is because of ammo.

Allow me :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

On a side note a pretty funny sig I found:

Actually, I compared the gear for RNG's and my monk, since that was the only DD job I could fairly compare it to. Barring weapons, just due to the large number of choices, my monk has spent way more on gear than rng's do. Assuming that the mnk is mainly wearing AF and quested his brown belt, they'd still spend at least twice what a rng does on gear. Looking to what my monk is wearing and the same rng gear, the difference grows a lot. But then, I <3 my scorp harness.

See that's where the deal lies. Equipment is about the same though I beg to differ to a degree. I've spent more on my RNG than most because I had more money than most and same could be said for someone who has out spent a so said RNG. Whomever has the most mone will have the most expensive gear. I was just saying it's kind of crazy of the guy to say what he did when in FACT RNG do spend more. When we hit 75 we still spend money everyday for ammo + the necessities that melees use (food, shihei, etc.). You can't just dismiss that like he did.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm not saying that rng is a cheap class, because it's obviously not. What I was saying is that in terms of just equipment, not counting consumables, RNG was cheaper than what I had spent on my monk. I only took into accuont gear that was accessable by level 64 though, since that's what my monk was at; and at that level, most of the rng gear was cheaper than my monk gear. Although to be fair, a lot of the monk's my level don't have scorpion harnesses and some don't have brown belts.

 

[Mokk]

When is all the hating on this going to end? i mean .. for god's sake haven't we done it to death? Pre-nerf and post-nerf .. it's getting ridiculous.

No i don't play rng, but i do sympathize with you guys as i outdmgd a rng across the boards with ranged in promy mea the other night with war/mnk ... that was particularly silly and i felt horrible each twang of the arrow. I'm sure eventually they will fix it or upgrade it from where it is now to give some balance back, just please .. everyone spare everyone else all the hostility over this it's getting real old.

Btw, anyone who thinks blms monopolizes dmg is fooling themselves. Mnks, Drgs, (some)Drks, and Wars are where it's at with yer melee's per usual. Unfortunately it was/is unfair to compare us with blms and (well used to be) rngs .. but regardless a blm that ran the gambit of ruling the dmg in a pt is also a blm with a partial deathwish.

To put to fine a point on it rangers were basicly thermonuclear melees. To counter that they gimped the hell out of you guys, which sucks. Can we not make this about every other job and maybe direct the hostilities at the people who nerfed you in the first place?

 

[Ithenas]

I'm not saying that rng is a cheap class, because it's obviously not. What I was saying is that in terms of just equipment, not counting consumables, RNG was cheaper than what I had spent on my monk. I only took into accuont gear that was accessable by level 64 though, since that's what my monk was at; and at that level, most of the rng gear was cheaper than my monk gear. Although to be fair, a lot of the monk's my level don't have scorpion harnesses and some don't have brown belts.

unfortunately consumables play a very large role in this game, and if your looking at gear for RNG vs. MNK how about this... Ebow, rng wins.

 

[Mishaela]

I'm not saying that rng is a cheap class, because it's obviously not. What I was saying is that in terms of just equipment, not counting consumables, RNG was cheaper than what I had spent on my monk. I only took into accuont gear that was accessable by level 64 though, since that's what my monk was at; and at that level, most of the rng gear was cheaper than my monk gear. Although to be fair, a lot of the monk's my level don't have scorpion harnesses and some don't have brown belts.

unfortunately consumables play a very large role in this game, and if your looking at gear for RNG vs. MNK how about this... Ebow, rng wins.

Yeah, Ebow's cost totally stomps out the cost of CCs/Scorp Harness/Brownbelt (and 2/3 of those seem to be virtually expected to be used by any MNK, whereas Ebow isn't expected of RNG..)


Anyhow...somewhere in the thread I think I saw someone complaining about how people went from "are there any RNG or BLM seeking?" to "are there any BLM seeking?"....were you sorta hurt that your job is no longer than most popular/high demand or what? Cause, y'know, picking a job just for attention benefits is sorta silly =\

 

[Skaw]

To put to fine a point on it rangers were basicly thermonuclear melees. To counter that they gimped the hell out of you guys, which sucks. Can we not make this about every other job and maybe direct the hostilities at the people who nerfed you in the first place?

Too bad most of the Rangers are idiots, and believe that every other job is the reason they were nerfed.

Ofcourse, theres those smart rangers that realize that's not the case. And those are the Rangers I love, and are still playing the game as Ranger, and not quitting cause their Easy Pass got revoked.

 

[Bajaratt]

I'm not saying that rng is a cheap class, because it's obviously not. What I was saying is that in terms of just equipment, not counting consumables, RNG was cheaper than what I had spent on my monk. I only took into accuont gear that was accessable by level 64 though, since that's what my monk was at; and at that level, most of the rng gear was cheaper than my monk gear. Although to be fair, a lot of the monk's my level don't have scorpion harnesses and some don't have brown belts.

unfortunately consumables play a very large role in this game, and if your looking at gear for RNG vs. MNK how about this... Ebow, rng wins.

E-Bow's been going down in price lately. When I did that price comparison, I specifically chose to not go for all uber gear, since it would be unrealistic. If I had, mnk would still win, since monk would have SH+1, snipers +1, cross-counters, and more. Just the SH+1 and a single sniper +1 beat out your E-Bow, so mnk still wins. Rng would likely spend more money than I calculated for mnk at my level in just ammo alone, but I was solely looking to gear.

 

[meeze]

I'm not saying that rng is a cheap class, because it's obviously not. What I was saying is that in terms of just equipment, not counting consumables, RNG was cheaper than what I had spent on my monk. I only took into accuont gear that was accessable by level 64 though, since that's what my monk was at; and at that level, most of the rng gear was cheaper than my monk gear. Although to be fair, a lot of the monk's my level don't have scorpion harnesses and some don't have brown belts.

unfortunately consumables play a very large role in this game, and if your looking at gear for RNG vs. MNK how about this... Ebow, rng wins.

Yeah, Ebow's cost totally stomps out the cost of CCs/Scorp Harness/Brownbelt (and 2/3 of those seem to be virtually expected to be used by any MNK, whereas Ebow isn't expected of RNG..)


Anyhow...somewhere in the thread I think I saw someone complaining about how people went from "are there any RNG or BLM seeking?" to "are there any BLM seeking?"....were you sorta hurt that your job is no longer than most popular/high demand or what? Cause, y'know, picking a job just for attention benefits is sorta silly =\

where i was going with the "who is seeking" line is that there is now only one job that is in the desired category. SE is giviing us parody, but why gimp classes down to the rest, why not upgrade the other classes to be better.

as far as me needing attention...its true, i need a hug.

 

[Darkdante]

if i'm going to be doing 1/2 my dmg or so ... why can't prices of the ammunition be cheaper?
lower the prices on ammo, .

I'd have to think one of the main reasons for the nerf is because of this.

Because as we all know its PLayers who drive up costs, more than anything else. The only way to decrease insane prices is to increase awareness and intelligence. Since that failed, you have to decrease hype.

Thats when people won't be willing to pay insane prices for ammo, and the price of it will drop.

This would maybe decrease gil buying on a whole also and improve the economy. Well heres for wishfull thinking anyway.......

 

[Stouter]

Ok some replies to some thoughts, not specific quotes, and not all in this thread, but all concerning the rng nerf:

It's not fair that ranger did more damage than other jobs, and getting picked for parties instead of other DD's/
Ranger payed for their damage, and I'm not talking gil or ammo. Ranger had nothing besides damage in exp. Ranger is and was unable to sub thief to survive their damage, and has nothing useful to a party besides their damage. No stun, absorbs, meditate, provoke, or jump. All we have is barrage for an extra damage boost every 5+ minutes, and that has been gimped just as much, if not more than our normal attacks.

Ranger can still do the same damage they did if they adapt and use the "sweet spot" properly.
I can't hit slug shots on EP dolls from the "sweet spot" with 150+ TP, +12 Marksmanship from merits, and +37 Racc. Our accuracy took a huge hit, ranger has 4 accuracy bonuses, yes, 4. Why should ranger need to wear +80 Racc gear and eat sushi to have a decent accuracy against less than EM mobs now? I tried out Ranged accuracy from different distances the other day, and found something out. My melee swings have more accuracy with 240 skill and +10 Acc than my Ranged attacks do with 281 skill and +37 Ranged Accuracy. I tried melee range, just outside melee range, the "sweet spot," and outside ws range. There were differences in accuracy at different distances, but I still couldn't land 80% of shots at any range, but somehow could land 95% of my axe swings.

Ranger is still powerful and essential end-game because they can do damage from outside AoE.
Yes, ranger can still do damage outside AoE, and the damage per hit isn't that much of a cut. The problem is the accuracy. Outside AoE is the worse accuracy ranger can get. Rangers already had to use sushi against these mobs to hit with acceptable accuracy.

Ranger took no skill to play before, now to be a good ranger you need skill
This has got to be the most retarded thing anyone has said. Instead of standing in back of a mob and spamming your /ra macro, you figure out the sweet spot and stand there and spam your /ra macro, HUGE jump in skill there.

If you think ranger takes no skill to play properly you are retarded. Yes, it takes no skill to put up the big numbers as a ranger, that's easy, but there's more to ranger than just doing damage. As a puller you are responsible for the chain, as a DD you are responsible for the chain. I have been in parties that were unable to hit chain 5 against VT's because a DD didn't understand their role in doing damage.

The nerf made the jobs more balanced
Wtf is this balance you're talking about? There are 15 different jobs in the game. To achieve this balance you want you would have to make it so there was only one job type. Simple fact, paladins and ninjas are the best tanks, white mages are the best healers, black mages are the best nukers, samurai are the best skillchainers. Each job excels at some aspect of the game, now all ranger has is wide scan and gimped damage and accuracy from outside AoE that can easily be put to shame by a blm, without the benefit of -20 enmity in gear. How is that balanced? So what ranger really has over other jobs is wide scan?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's some ideas to fix it, any single one would be enough to satisfy me:
-Drop the distance damage nerf on ws's.
-Drop the Ranged Accuracy nerf.
-Make Sneak Attack and Trick Attack stack with ranged attacks/ws's (this would cause so much imbalance though, once all the 73+ thieves subbed rng and put on a culverin and cannon shells...)
-Make it so sharpshot actually increases your Ranged Accuracy end game...

 

[Darkdante]

Ranger took no skill to play before, now to be a good ranger you need skill
This has got to be the most retarded thing anyone has said. Instead of standing in back of a mob and spamming your /ra macro, you figure out the sweet spot and stand there and spam your /ra macro, HUGE jump in skill there.

I don't know where I read it, but I've been reading a hell of alot of complaints that you can't just stand around and spam arrows. You need to get range as the mob moves, I'd say this adds to the complexity and it takes ALOT more skill to do that and coordinate parties so you don't have to run around than it is to just stand in front of the mob and press attack.

When I play bard one of the hardest things to do is to get the range to hit pld's with certain songs and not hit anybody else with it. This to me takes a bit of skill, and brains, and teamwork, not much but more than it does to do alot of other things manly just sit and attack.

If you think ranger takes no skill to play properly you are retarded. Yes, it takes no skill to put up the big numbers as a ranger, that's easy, but there's more to ranger than just doing damage. As a puller you are responsible for the chain, as a DD you are responsible for the chain. I have been in parties that were unable to hit chain 5 against VT's because a DD didn't understand their role in doing damage.

Yes but this is not Ranger specific. Any DD or Puller is responsible for this also.

 

[Stouter]

Ranger took no skill to play before, now to be a good ranger you need skill
This has got to be the most retarded thing anyone has said. Instead of standing in back of a mob and spamming your /ra macro, you figure out the sweet spot and stand there and spam your /ra macro, HUGE jump in skill there.

I don't know where I read it, but I've been reading a hell of alot of complaints that you can't just stand around and spam arrows. You need to get range as the mob moves, I'd say this adds to the complexity and it takes ALOT more skill to do that and coordinate parties so you don't have to run around than it is to just stand in front of the mob and press attack.

This is against kited mobs, and there is more luck that skill involved. You can use your skill to time it perfect so that they are in the sweet spot when you fire, but what happens when during the 5 seconds it takes you to shoot they stop to do a TP move or cast a spell? This isn't any more skill than last time they nerfed ranged attacks, so that if the target ran out of range you would automatically miss. This just added in luck for hitting kited mobs for max damage/acc.

When I play bard one of the hardest things to do is to get the range to hit pld's with certain songs and not hit anybody else with it. This to me takes a bit of skill, and brains, and teamwork, not much but more than it does to do alot of other things manly just sit and attack.

I know a thing or two about bard and hitting paladins with ballad while missing the melee, and hitting the ninja with madrigal while missing the rangers. It takes a tiny bit of skill to find that spot, but imagine if all you had to do was hit the paladin and mages with ballad. Would it take skill to find that spot and stand still there repeating your ballad macro?

If you think ranger takes no skill to play properly you are retarded. Yes, it takes no skill to put up the big numbers as a ranger, that's easy, but there's more to ranger than just doing damage. As a puller you are responsible for the chain, as a DD you are responsible for the chain. I have been in parties that were unable to hit chain 5 against VT's because a DD didn't understand their role in doing damage.

Yes but this is not Ranger specific. Any DD or Puller is responsible for this also.

Exactly my point, however as a puller AND a DD, ranger is moreso responsible. Having a high damage JA that can only be used 1-2 times per chain is also something that you could argue takes skill.