Cor Rolls

Icewolf said:
Thieves are good. At giving the mob lots of tp. I guess they do have a use for treasure hunter though.
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That's pretty funny. I say bust out a parser, stick Sneakypants and yourself in a party, and let's see who does the most damage ;)
 
You can take the worst case scenario for any job and make it look bad. If that's all you know of it, then I'm correct in saying I see a lot of ignorance.

fyi: Just as a reminder that pointing out ignorance is not an insult in case any of you ignorant people took it that way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ignorant


Ish, others seem to share your opinion, and I am responding in general, not just to you. Let's face it, there are lots of THFs that suck ass and would prove your points better. But we aren't talking about shitty THFs and worst case scenarios. We are talking about the job as a whole. What THF is capable of. By that, I don't mean best case scenarios either, so I will avoid weak to piercing type scenarios all together...Much like I wouldn't have much of a point saying DRG or DRK is good for nothing, if I based my argument on things that make them look bad or my ignorance of the potential of the job.

You did say 85% of THF dmg comes from WS. That would be correct if the THF walked up to a MOB took a couple swings, WS, and it died.
In reality, over time, THF dmg is about 50% from tp building and 50% from WS. The average numbers I put up in building to 100%, or just a bit more, (remember that to be optimal, THF needs to line up, maybe save WS for a better time so as not to waste half of it, get cooperation from PT, etc.), are roughly equal to my average WS numbers. Thus roughly 50-50.

I agree the numbers in a specific situation could be more lop sided one way or the other. 85% is way too extreme, however. Speaking of specifics is a bad idea in the context of this discussion though. We aren't talking about what THF can do in a certain situation.

That said, I'll give you an example. The example is one that will not be partial to a THF or blatantly show it in a bad light.

Last night we did Dynamis-Beaucidine. Dancing Edge to the face went for 400-650. I never stacked full SATAWS. MOBs move too much. Several ws over 1k. Topped at 1.2 and change. Average SAWS was about 900.
Melee swings were a low of 20, and high of 100+ crits. And I crit a lot. <3
19% haste + suppa + DW2 + Blau/SK + meat....Gee, who knew?!?!

Reviewing alliance numbers, I more than held my own. Without looking at numbers I can see from MOB behavior that THF is doing plenty of damage. Occasionally pulling hate from melee swings only. TAing on the tank, who provokes and then uses a WS of his own, only to run around back and lay a smack down and tank the rest of the fight. This is a regular occurrance, not a fluke. And there are plenty of THF out there that would put me to shame.


We could talk about specific examples all day long. Some scenarios, THF is not optimal. Some, they are. In general, it's good to have a solid THF around for almost anything.

When it comes to responding to the generalized comments that THF doesn't do damage or that the vast majority of their damage comes from WS, it's perfectly acceptable for the reply to be, "Ignorant."



EDIT: spelling
 
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Icewolf said:
Thieves are good. At giving the mob lots of tp. I guess they do have a use for treasure hunter though.
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Speaking of useless....
Good job on the "witty" one liners.
 
sneaky said:
meat
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Had me with this. :nyam:

I'm sure THF can do good DoT if equipped right, but I more or less was speaking on behalf of...probably 95% of THFs (or even all DD, for that matter) that I come upon - people hump sushi for dear life, even when it's very much so unneeded, as well as sub NIN for survivability rather than WAR for damage. =\

Posting this as I eat Kabobs in Aydeewa and getting bitched at by my sushi-scarfing party for pulling hate with auto-attack.
 
Charcoip said:
Haha, the roll arguments were the least of the problems in this party. Bajaratt was complaining before we even started the party saying 24 people in Caedarva Mire was too much to xp there and we would not be able to claim a mob and xp would suck. Then complained she didn't like Imps and if we had to go there she would leave, funny thing she d/c'd on 2nd fight last party we had there too.

Oh but when I mentioned that she goes off on how she d/c's in most of her partys. Oh well w/e I dont really care where we xp, we finally go to Sea Puks after party spent half an hour argueing on where to go.

Baja never exactly asked for WAR roll either, she was a bitch to everyone in that party because she obviously thought she was better then everyone else. Alobont uses a different roll and she starts bitching again asking why hes using useless rolls and she DEMANDED for Fighter's Roll, because that's obviously the only good roll out there amirite?
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There were 5 parties out in caedarva mire when we were looking, at that point your pulls start encroaching on the mobs of another party, meaning lower chains and less exp. Yeah, I fucking hate camping there, it's almost always packed and when it's not it will be soon. Imps are also annoying as hell to tank, especially when I usually have to rely on shitty mages who don't understand casting silena on me or that I have to tell them every time I need haste or I won't get it. I gave a couple options for alternate camps, if the other members refused to go anywhere else I'd leave. People who refuse to camp anywhere but one shitty zone when three other, better, options available aren't worth partying with.

The only people I had a problem with were you for your horrible gear and lack of ability and alobont's calling me a noob because I dare to not like a shitty zone to exp in and wanted a useful roll. I didn't even care about the fact that we had a PUP in the party(finally remembered what the 6th job was), just the COR who was giving a useless roll and refused to change and the whm geared worse than a gil seller.
 
Mishaela said:
Had me with this. :nyam:

I'm sure THF can do good DoT if equipped right, but I more or less was speaking on behalf of...probably 95% of THFs (or even all DD, for that matter) that I come upon - people hump sushi for dear life, even when it's very much so unneeded, as well as sub NIN for survivability rather than WAR for damage. =\

Posting this as I eat Kabobs in Aydeewa and getting bitched at by my sushi-scarfing party for pulling hate with auto-attack.
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Haha. Well you know I agree with you! But at least you are making the distinction. :)
/bow



To the rest. I'm not sure what the motivation is. I'm guessing your E-Peen. This is not me saying THF is the end all, be all and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Each job has it's pros and cons to be certain. Just lay off the generalizations. You've been called out for being ignorant. It's ok. Education is a good thing, right?
 
Seriously if you have looked it up you can see the entire COR community agrees the fighters roll is a waste with out a war. I highly doubt that the entire COR community is wrong on this and you are right.

Do you even realize how hard it is to roll an 11. On average I may get an 11 like 3 times a party. Seriously though i switched to Chaos roll because our acc was fine like you said. OMG I AGRRED WITH YOU!!! But, I wanted to make sure that acc was fine before I switched over to a new roll.

As Charcoip said you did whine like a freaking brat about not going to the mire when it was wide open. less than 30 people there and you bitched about it saying you wouldn't tank and that we wouldn't get good exp. Are you that bitchy when it comes to anything else in this game seriously. If you think having a signal pearl on an earring slot is such a big deal you must have problems sleeping a night.

Yeah I will agree that Char should of had his staffs but its nothing major since I had my dark staff with me. It never seemed to occur to me through out the pt either that has lack of "good" gear hurt his ability to heal your ass.

Baj you need to step off your elitist podium and take a look around.
 
Alobont, sorry to derail/sidetrack man.
You can understand where I'm coming from, it would seem.
 
Bajaratt said:
There were 5 parties out in caedarva mire when we were looking, at that point your pulls start encroaching on the mobs of another party, meaning lower chains and less exp. Yeah, I fucking hate camping there, it's almost always packed and when it's not it will be soon. Imps are also annoying as hell to tank, especially when I usually have to rely on shitty mages who don't understand casting silena on me or that I have to tell them every time I need haste or I won't get it. I gave a couple options for alternate camps, if the other members refused to go anywhere else I'd leave. People who refuse to camp anywhere but one shitty zone when three other, better, options available aren't worth partying with.

The only people I had a problem with were you for your horrible gear and lack of ability and alobont's calling me a noob because I dare to not like a shitty zone to exp in and wanted a useful roll. I didn't even care about the fact that we had a PUP in the party(finally remembered what the 6th job was), just the COR who was giving a useless roll and refused to change and the whm geared worse than a gil seller.
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There were not 5 partys there were 30 people and 4 not even in a party. I've gotten over 8k an hr there with 60+ people in the zone. I solo there when 60+ people are in the zone, and guess what, I take my time. I have Garuda run over and whack the imps. I'm never fighting for claims.

Guess what we made about 7k an hr, and you couldn't even hold hate on puks. the blm stole hate 1st nuke after the puk was down to 50%, every WS took hate from you. Even me throwing you a cure took hate.

Maybe before leveling nin you should go take off those -enmity merits you have on
 
Alobont said:
Seriously if you have looked it up you can see the entire COR community agrees the fighters roll is a waste with out a war. I highly doubt that the entire COR community is wrong on this and you are right.

Do you even realize how hard it is to roll an 11. On average I may get an 11 like 3 times a party. Seriously though i switched to Chaos roll because our acc was fine like you said. OMG I AGRRED WITH YOU!!! But, I wanted to make sure that acc was fine before I switched over to a new roll.

As Charcoip said you did whine like a freaking brat about not going to the mire when it was wide open. less than 30 people there and you bitched about it saying you wouldn't tank and that we wouldn't get good exp. Are you that bitchy when it comes to anything else in this game seriously. If you think having a signal pearl on an earring slot is such a big deal you must have problems sleeping a night.

Yeah I will agree that Char should of had his staffs but its nothing major since I had my dark staff with me. It never seemed to occur to me through out the pt either that has lack of "good" gear hurt his ability to heal your ass.

Baj you need to step off your elitist podium and take a look around.
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Saying X amount of people agree with you is cool and all, but where are the facts? You're telling me Fighter's Roll isn't good, then make me believe it. Give me some numbers, parses, research, charts, pie graphs, apple juice, WHATEVER. Don't expect me to believe you because you play the job only. As far as I know, the entire COR community might not know dick about the job.
 
Sneakypants said:
Haha. Well you know I agree with you! But at least you are making the distinction. :)
/bow



To the rest. I'm not sure what the motivation is. I'm guessing your E-Peen. This is not me saying THF is the end all, be all and the greatest thing since sliced bread. Each job has it's pros and cons to be certain. Just lay off the generalizations. You've been called out for being ignorant. It's ok. Education is a good thing, right?
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Yeh, the more you know. =P

...I have an e-peen? ;-; I just thought THF/WAR and RNG/WAR and such like that were proven to be better damage, just less survivability?

*Edit* Also, I know jack crap about most of COR, don't think I'll be commenting on those 'cept that I personally liked Fighter's Roll a ton when I got the chance to have it used...
 
Charcoip said:
There were not 5 partys there were 30 people and 4 not even in a party. I've gotten over 8k an hr there with 60+ people in the zone. I solo there when 60+ people are in the zone, and guess what, I take my time. I have Garuda run over and whack the imps. I'm never fighting for claims.

Guess what we made about 7k an hr, and you couldn't even hold hate on puks. the blm stole hate 1st nuke after the puk was down to 50%, every WS took hate from you. Even me throwing you a cure took hate.

Maybe before leveling nin you should go take off those -enmity merits you have on
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Charcoip:1
Baj: 0
 
First of all, your average thf does not have your haste/gear build that you do, im sure you would do alot better than most thf's i see. But it still doesnt change the fact that thieves give the mob much more tp, just to try and keep up with the war or mnk. And you must have the pt's cooperation to do the most damage possible, which isnt always gunna happen.
 
Baj I have exped in the mire even whens its been full and have gotten plenty of exp. Just because you don't wanna go there and have to act like a premadonna about not wanting to tank imps and such. If you are worried about silence bring silena pots. OMG MEDICINE!!! The mire is where we should of have gone to begin with. you other solutions where either shitty or people didn't have the staging point.

I called you a noob because you where acting like one. You wanted a useless roll and didn't wanna camp in a zone that was just fine for our level and was open. Also because you acted so childish over an earring slot.
 
Charcoip said:
1) you are far from having any idea what your talking about

2) that is revelant with this post how?
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I think it's funny you complain about people's attitude when you steal ToDs and roll with hackers. I'd rather be around a bunch of people who I have personal problems with than a bunch of idiots who play a kids game "cutthroat" style.
 
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