Cor Rolls

[Veresko]

Actually, if you take 20 Rampages (so it makes an even 100 hits).

No buffs, at 80% accuracy, you'd get:

100 hits X 80% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 8,000 damage.

If you add Fighter Roll, with a 20% chances of kicking in:

(100 hits + 20 hits) X 80% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 9,600 damage

Now with 20% accuracy bonus from Hunter's (non-stacking):

100 hits X 80% acc. X 1,20 (acc bonus) X 100 dmg/hit = 9,600 damage


If both bonus are 20%, then both scenario are exactly the same.

Edited: Stupid internet acting funny, double posted my previous post originally.
Edited again for clarity.

 

[Alobont]

Is you calculation including that if all double attacks land?

 

[meeze]

Actually, if you take 20 Rampages (so it makes an even 100 hits).

No buffs, at 80% accuracy, you'd get:

100 hits X 80% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 8,000 damage.

If you add Fighter Roll, with a 20% chances of kicking in:

(100 hits + 20 hits) X 80% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 9,600 damage

Now with 20% accuracy bonus from Hunter's (non-stacking):

100 hits X 80% acc. X 1,20 (acc bonus) X 100 dmg/hit = 9,600 damage


If both bonus are 20%, then both scenario are exactly the same.

Edited: Stupid internet acting funny, double posted my previous post originally.
Edited again for clarity.

That isn't taking into account that some PT members are close to capping acc by the time they are in their late 60's. WARs and DRKs have thick/hauby, SAMs have haubys, THF and MNK have SHs, they all have snipers.

 

[Veresko]

And you'r still assuming every Doubled Hits will not miss in your corrected maths. 84-86 would be more accurate for the Fighter's Roll scenario (80% of 5-8 more hits), making both rolls give out the same bonus in TP building as well.

Again, that is IF both bonus % are the same at X roll result, without the appropriate job in party.

 

[Alobont]

Meeze dont count on everyone having haubys or snipers, some people cant afford that stuff. I think I saw some numbers on hutners some where im gonna go see if I can find them.

 

[Alobont]

Here is some info on chaos roll without drk in pt:

[Note : Chaos Roll done without DRK in PT, thanks jyneefur]
-5.7 to -7.2% XI+ Bust Chaos
0% 0 Chaos
2.5 to 4% I Chaos
2.5 to 4% II Chaos
2.5 to 4% III Chaos
10.5 to 12% IV Lucky Number Chaos
4.1 to 5.6% V Chaos
5.7 to 7.2% VI Chaos
5.7 to 7.2% VII Chaos
0 to .8% VIII Unlucky Number Chaos
7.3 to 8.8% IX Chaos
? to ?% X
17 to 18.5% XI Perfect Chaos

 

[meeze]

Meeze dont count on everyone having haubys or snipers, some people cant afford that stuff. I think I saw some numbers on hutners some where im gonna go see if I can find them.

There is no reason everyone shouldn't have hauby/snipers by their late 60s...but that is a different topic.

 

[Raesvelg]

That isn't taking into account that some PT members are close to capping acc by the time they are in their late 60's. WARs and DRKs have thick/hauby, SAMs have haubys, THF and MNK have SHs, they all have snipers.

And this is the most important point about Hunter's Roll, namely that it's frequently unnecessary. Even with a RNG in party, at higher levels when you're near cap accuracy anyway, boosting it further is largely irrelevant. You will still miss roughly the same amount, you might shave a percentage point off.

Although in theory, you could advocate meat dishes and RNG/WAR rolls and see how that turned out.

As for people not being able to afford Hauby/Acc rings/Etc. True enough, some folks can't afford it, particularly newer players leveling their first jobs. But those people are relatively few and far between, and offsetting the gimpiness of one party member doesn't offer nearly the gains of enhancing the effectiveness of the 3 average or better members of the party.

 

[Alobont]

There are plenty of reasons but that is another topic all togther.

 

[Bajaratt]

There were not 5 partys there were 30 people and 4 not even in a party. I've gotten over 8k an hr there with 60+ people in the zone. I solo there when 60+ people are in the zone, and guess what, I take my time. I have Garuda run over and whack the imps. I'm never fighting for claims.

Guess what we made about 7k an hr, and you couldn't even hold hate on puks. the blm stole hate 1st nuke after the puk was down to 50%, every WS took hate from you. Even me throwing you a cure took hate.

Maybe before leveling nin you should go take off those -enmity merits you have on

The only times you pulled hate was when you did cure 4 on alobont right at the start of the fight from him getting beat up while pulling or you threw out a high curaga in the middle of the fight. If you could play whm worth a damn and I didn't have to say "haste" every time it went down, I would have been able to keep my shadows up more often and lose less hate. It's difficult to hold hate when the mages in your party are retarded and play like they're in the dunes or outright botting.

If I had trusted your ability to play white mage in the slightest, then I would have lived with Caedarva Mire, as I've had to do for a lot of parties. I shouldn't have to spend 40k on echo drops for a single party just because the whm is too stupid to know what silena is. Since I knew you sucked at white mage as much as you do, the mire wasn't a good option; so I suggested several alternative camps and the leader agreed with me to not go to the mire. I shouldn't have to carry your gimp ass in the party, but you definitely can't hold your own weight.

 

[Veresko]

That isn't taking into account that some PT members are close to capping acc by the time they are in their late 60's. WARs and DRKs have thick/hauby, SAMs have haubys, THF and MNK have SHs, they all have snipers.

Yeah, but the discussion is comparing Fighter's Roll vs Hunter's Roll bonus if neither a Ranger or Warrior is in a party. For each member, no matter what gear, the bonus from each roll will be the same. For exemple, if I put 90% accuracy:


No buffs, at 90% accuracy, you'd get:

100 hits X 90% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 9,000 damage.

If you add Fighter Roll, with a 20% chances of kicking in:

(100 hits + 20 hits) X 90% acc. X 100 dmg/hit = 10,800 damage

Now with 20% accuracy bonus from Hunter's (non-stacking):

100 hits X 90% acc. X 1,20 (acc bonus) X 100 dmg/hit = 10,800 damage (not true, see edit.)


So for a specific member, having either roll, if both bonus are the same and neither job is in the party, wil produce the same result. I understand that gear and a whole lot of variables will come into play but we can't possibily test ever gear setup, every mob evasion, every food, brd songs combinaison.

The important is that if a party is figthing the same mob (hopefully....) then on THAT party, figthing THAT mob, casting either rolls will give you the same output.

Edit: Nvm, I see what you mean, disregard the Hunter's Roll scenario as it pushes accuracy over 100% which... is impossible. The correct damage output would be 10,000 damage, 800 less then with Fighter's Roll.

So yeah, pimp party = Fighter's / gimp party = Hunter's. I guess lol.

 

[Alobont]

The leader did not agree with you, the leader merely stated that they also didnt like the mire. Hel,l I even said I didnt like the mire but we didnt go BECAUSE you cried like a little school girl and bitched and moaned till we went some where else.

No where in the party did Char not do his whm duty. He was a bit sloe with the haste but its not like not having haste has prevented any from leveling before. He never casued to have down time because his gear wasnt leet. Char did his job and you did lose hate on a few occasions that you shouldnt have.

 

[Alobont]

Does your calculations of fighters roll have have the double attack always landing?

 

[Veresko]

Does your calculations of fighters roll have have the double attack always landing?

No, I add the additional hits before I multiply the accuracy %, so the "doubled hits" are adjusted as per accuracy.

 

[Alobont]

Well after reviewing all the math I would say that either roll is about that same. I say this because Rampage wont always put out steady numbers and you can always hit an acc cap.

Interesting to see all of that though. If we onyl knew the percentage of acc it gave and how much double attack.

 

[Veresko]

Sorry if I don't reply from now on but I need to run. But one thing I'd like to add, if you take your Cor job seriously (which I think you are) you should really try to find the correct % since the argument seems to occur a lot in parties. To do that it'S rather easy, important thing is to keep everything the same.

What I'd do is go in that Ballista field (Diapo-ghagd-blahblah) with 2 friends. Have them both wearing no evasion gear, minus or bonus. Maybe have them sub whm so they can cure themselves and not die before the test is over. Have them bring weak ass weapon to (weak as in dmg, not as in a whm using hand-to-hand, I'd do the test with A- or more skill), you're testing acc, not dmg.

Have the person that will end up with you engage and hit the other 100 time and note down the accuracy %, without any buff. Then do it again with a lucky roll or 11 on Hunter's Roll (just roll till you get it) and compare the accuracy. Since you are hitting the same "mob" (other person) the evasion doesn't change and only the accuracy bonus will show on the result.

Now hopefully the person attacking doesn't have Double Attack by default. Roll Fighter's on them and have them do 100 attack round (not 100 hits) and see how many time double attack kicks in.

Honnestly, until someone comes up with hard numbers on the bonus, it's hard to really compare.

 

[Stouter]

ou have to factor in that the fact that the effect goes up as you level and changes based on level gap.

Since when, and for what rolls? Just warrior's? Because all the others seem to be fixed % from what all the COR that know what they're talking about say.

 

[Bajaratt]

The leader did not agree with you, the leader merely stated that they also didnt like the mire. Hel,l I even said I didnt like the mire but we didnt go BECAUSE you cried like a little school girl and bitched and moaned till we went some where else.

No where in the party did Char not do his whm duty. He was a bit sloe with the haste but its not like not having haste has prevented any from leveling before. He never casued to have down time because his gear wasnt leet. Char did his job and you did lose hate on a few occasions that you shouldnt have.

"I hate the mire, we're going somewhere else." That's agreeing with me, I hated the mire and I wanted to go somewhere else; I gave my reasons and he agreed with those. He even told me we weren't going to the mire before I joined the party, my hatred of the place had nothing to do with not going there besides getting your panties in a bunch that someone might hate fighting imps.

Charcoip sucks as a whm, since you only saw him curing you, you wouldn't have noticed as much of his failings. Plus, as a white mage, I'm more aware of what a whm is able to do and he could barely play the job. His inability to haste me without me asking for it every time(I didn't say it as soon as it wore, sometimes I didn't notice right away) caused me to take more hits due to both utsusemi spells still cooling down, which made holding hate a bigger problem and caused him to spend more mp to cure everyone. Those cures screwed with hate more(the fact that he had almost no -enmity from barely any AF didn't help either) and drained his mp, which due to his shitty gear he had less than he should have had; which meant he had to rest more often and was even slower to cure/haste.

I shouldn't have to hold his hand with what spell to cast and when; nor should there be an excuse for how bad his gear was. He was deliberately not bringing good gear to the party, he even admitted to it, that shows that he didn't care at all about the job; and his play style proved it. It's a lot more difficult to play my job when I have crappy support, when I have someone competent the party works better and is far more enjoyable.

 

[Charcoip]

The only times you pulled hate was when you did cure 4 on alobont right at the start of the fight from him getting beat up while pulling or you threw out a high curaga in the middle of the fight. If you could play whm worth a damn and I didn't have to say "haste" every time it went down, I would have been able to keep my shadows up more often and lose less hate. It's difficult to hold hate when the mages in your party are retarded and play like they're in the dunes or outright botting.

If I had trusted your ability to play white mage in the slightest, then I would have lived with Caedarva Mire, as I've had to do for a lot of parties. I shouldn't have to spend 40k on echo drops for a single party just because the whm is too stupid to know what silena is. Since I knew you sucked at white mage as much as you do, the mire wasn't a good option; so I suggested several alternative camps and the leader agreed with me to not go to the mire. I shouldn't have to carry your gimp ass in the party, but you definitely can't hold your own weight.

Sorry that you decided you wanted to continuosly drop haste right after I gave it to you and didn't always catch it...hell I actually even took pictures of me casting haste and you asking for haste about 15 seconds later, i'll post them up later. also, not once did I cure 4 alobont, I cure 3 and 5 only except the one time you allowed Quit to die because your gimp ass didnt know how to voke a link I cure V and IV'd him.

The high level Curaga was when it was almost dead and you were all hurt from it spamming AoEs, I followed up with a flash right after and never got hit before it died...funny how that works eh? think that If I was spamming Curaga 3s and taking hate I'd die a few times....guess a WHM can tank better then you can Baja.

Oh and if you had the trust in me? You had never partied with my WHM before...except that one time you d/c'd on us right as we pulled a mob. if you think that counts. You were the one that couldn't be trusted making the continous stupid comments you made before we even started. "Oh my router is shit, I d/c in all my partys." "I don't like the mire partys 4 partys is way too much to claim anything there." "If we go to mire I leave" "We can't handle anything but puks". Honestly Baja..you fail.

 

[Mishaela]

I'm just gonna add my two cents and say that if you hafto ASK for something like Silena, the healer isn't paying nearly enough attention to the fights.

And why were -gas even going off? Where the hell was Silence?