Counselling Student sues School over required LGBT sensitivity training.

Okay, you can hit me with dictionary definitions all day long, that still does not make the two interchangeable sweetheart.
 
Lukas said:
Okay, you can hit me with dictionary definitions all day long, that still does not make the two interchangeable sweetheart.
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Your subjective interpretation does not exclude them from being interchangeable either, which clearly they are based upon the seminal text of the English language. It works like this, the concept that the Greek word ethike describes was translated into the Latin language as mos. The genitive of mos is moris, thus the MOR- of the English morality, morals, etc since genitive stems form the basis of all nouns and adjectives in Latin.

If you want to get really technical about it, the word "moral" in English originally referred to a very particular treatise on the Book of Job. The word referred to the lesson to be learned from the trials of Job and how he lived his life, i.e. "the moral of the story." The concept of a "moral" (in English) was an axiom that described how one should live one's life; morals being an entire set of principles or axioms that guide a person's behavior or that define the "proper" way to live. Socrates (via Plato and Xenophon) defined ethics as the way one should live one's life. The distinction you're trying to make between an individual's morals and an individual's ethics is purely subjective and semantic.

In the related story, the girl's Christian ethics(morals), in her view, supercede the ethics(morals) of her chosen profession; whereas the ethics(morals) of her professional code clearly state, in an imperative and commanding manner (not much different than the Ten Commandments imperative nature) that an individual must subjugate his or her personal ethics(morals) to the professional ethics(morals) with regards to professional-client interactions. Simple as that.
 
You're assuming that the classical origins of the word has any relevance on it's modern usage. More specifically it's usage in philosophical discourse. Even more specifically it's usage in this thread.

I already explained the difference three posts back and you dismissed them without comment, which means you either didn't undertand the difference or you disagree with it (which would be a gasp, "subjective" response too). Either way, quoting the Oxford and putting words in parentheses doesn't make you any more authoritative or objective.

If you look up any word in the dictionary, the most you can expect is a few lines of description. If that is the entire world, then it seems quite two dimensional.
 
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i think it has been well documented on this forum that i am a non believer in the invisible sky man but at the same time best i can tell the law is on her side. With the president of doctors being allowed not to perform surgeries etc that they are morally opposed to such as boob jobs for 12 year olds and abortions. this person is well within her rights to refuse this "training" although i think the fake it route was the appropriate one. The reason that she has a case is that this training was a result of a remediation plan and not part of the normal curriculum... if it were part of the normal curriculum then she would have no case as she should have seen it coming when she started the program. Since it was an plan made specifically for her, and it was not voluntary or expected... she should win the case because the school is in fact singling her out and forcing her ex post facto to do something that she would not have originally agreed to.

More than likely this will get a settlement and die. with her going to school more or less free (keeping her "morals") and a shiny degree in hand and some fame that will get her a cushy job at a religious persons company straight out of the gate... congrats for making a victim lefties.
 
Dejavu said:
The reason that she has a case is that this training was a result of a remediation plan and not part of the normal curriculum... if it were part of the normal curriculum then she would have no case as she should have seen it coming when she started the program. Since it was an plan made specifically for her, and it was not voluntary or expected... she should win the case because the school is in fact singling her out and forcing her ex post facto to do something that she would not have originally agreed to.
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Obviously it is a part of the normal curriculum or she wouldn't be required to address the issue before certification. The ACA guidelines have been in place a long time. She wanted to be a counselor but never bothered to find out what would be required of her? The only thing she's a victim of is her own stupidity in assuming she'd get special treatment.
 
No. This chick has no "I didn't know" leeway. Note the following portion, specifically the bolded text, from Page 27 of the University's Counselor Education Program Student Handbook available to all their students on their departmental website (www.aug.edu/elcse/forms/counseling_forms/ASU_CE_Handbook.doc):

"Twice yearly, the Counselor Education faculty meets to evaluate the progress of each matriculated student. The student's advisor is responsible for collecting relevant feedback from the faculty about a particular student. Each student will also be formally evaluated by faculty at three times throughout the program. The Professional Counseling Development Evaluation (PCDE) Instrument that has been developed by the faculty will be utilized for these assessments. The first evaluation will be conducted during the Counseling Theories course, after students complete the first three introductory courses. The next assessment phase will occur at Mid-Program, when students are enrolled in the Counseling Practicum course. The final evaluation will occur during the student’s final semester of the program, during Counseling Internship II. The purpose of the PCDE instrument is to provide the student with feedback concerning their progress in the program thus far and to outline any areas of concern. With this information the student is expected to make any necessary improvements. The student will be able to view the PCDE results by faculty on the Live Text data storage system.

When a student's progress is not satisfactory on interpersonal or professional criteria unrelated to academic performance, she or he may be placed on remediation status. In this event, the following process will occur:

The student will receive a Remediation Plan from her or his advisor (which has been developed after a personal conference with the advisor and another faculty member(s)) outlining the faculty's concerns and stating that the student has been placed on remediation status. In addition, the Remediation Plan will delineate what conditions the student must meet to be removed from remediation status. The student will also be informed of the consequences of the failure to comply with the outlined conditions, including the possibility that the student will be dropped from the Program.

At the end of the remediation period, the faculty will again assess the student’s progress on the Remediation Plan and will inform the student (in writing) of their evaluation. It is common for a remediation period to last one semester. Usually, a student is either reinstated fully or is terminated from the Program at this time. However, it is possible for remediation to be extended if the faculty warrants that additional time is needed, or the student has met prior conditions outlined by the faculty but has shown evidence of new deficiencies."

She can't claim that she wasn't told, she can't cry because she isn't meeting their requirements splashed all over their website of being able to understand the client, respect diversity, be impartial, etc. etc. etc. She fails. She'll lose, and she deserves to. If you can't be objective and put your own personal opinions and prejudices aside, then you don't need to be a counselor, a psychologist, or any number of other similar professions requiring you put someone else's emotions and belief set above your own.
 
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The judge threw out Keeton's case.

Hall said Keeton's unwillingness to adhere to the school's viewpoint-neutral code of ethics set by the American Counseling Association constitutes a refusal to complete the curriculum. ... Hall ruled the plan was simply a way to teach Keeton how to counsel all demographics of clients.

"It was not (Keeton's) personal beliefs that were their concern, but rather only her inability to separate her personal beliefs in the judgment-free zone of a professional counseling situation," Hall said.
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Awesome! Justice prevails. 8)
 
Hahahahahahahahaha the justice system ISNT too broken yet.
 
That... just made my day. Glad to see there's still some sense in the legal system.
 
Good. What a waste of time, effort and money on her part. You would think that by the time you enter a masters program that you would have some idea of what your career choice entails.....
 
Miros said:
This is just too fucking scary. Take a look at the hundreds of comments made on FoxNews from one of these cases.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/2...pel-student-opposes-homosexuality/#commenting

Are people REALLY that stupid and dense? I can't believe it! My brain hurts a lot.
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Umm...

Duh?

Fox News is where radical conservatives go to share their feelings.

This should come as no surprise. Extreme right-wing or extreme left-wing, it basically doesn't matter. The instant you add "extreme" to your political position, you basically brand yourself with the mark of the complete fucking idiot.
 
Raesvelg said:
Umm...

Duh?

Fox News is where radical conservatives go to share their feelings.

This should come as no surprise. Extreme right-wing or extreme left-wing, it basically doesn't matter. The instant you add "extreme" to your political position, you basically brand yourself with the mark of the complete fucking idiot.
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I agree!

But come now, in a country where Socialism is a dirty word, how many extreme left groups are there? And are they as embedded in the culture as the right?

I mean we can play left/right all day, but the truth is that on an international spectrum, the US barely touches centre... and then makes a hard right.
 
Lukas said:
I agree!

But come now, in a country where Socialism is a dirty word, how many extreme left groups are there? And are they as embedded in the culture as the right?

I mean we can play left/right all day, but the truth is that on an international spectrum, the US barely touches centre... and then makes a hard right.
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Don't confuse the most vocal parts of American society as the most prominent.

You should come visit the San Francisco Bay Area for a few months. Between San Francisco and Berkeley, I think you'd like it.

As far as the world is concerned, I can't say I agree. In the so-called "first-world" countries? Absolutely. I think you'd find a completely different story in the vast majority of "second-world" and "third-world" countries, which hold the great majority of human population.

Or are we only talking about the portions of the international spectrum that count?
 
Forget the comments, check out the laughable spin FOX News put on the article itself! "Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views."? No respectable journalist would repeat horseshit like that.

The article doesn't even mention in passing that she was expelled for refusing to take courses required for the program... NOT for having certain views.
 
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